The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #501  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:19 PM
BeatrixFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
What different side? When she went out with Dodi she was divorce and only 36. She was a generous person and Dodi was showering her with gifts. If she did fall for Dodi - what would be bad about that?

I admire Princess Diana and if she did have lovers while married - as I have said before it is because Prince Charles left her for another woman in 1986. BeatrixFan, or others - if you where about 25 and left in a loveless marriage what would you do?
You really must wait before taking a comment about Diana in the worst way - what I actually meant was that I had always believed that Diana had been quite spiteful to the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. I'd also believed that she was a bit of a bitch to Dodi and that she was just using the Harrods connection to keep her in the limelight. What this inquest is showing is that I was wrong. Whilst I shall never turn into a Di nutjob, I am happy to see that she was actually very respectful to the Duke, from what Raine said she also remained quite pleasant with the Queen and the Queen likewise. Whilst I still believe that overall, Diana damaged the monarchy, I'm willing to state that I put on her a par with other members of the Royal Family ; humans who have good times and bad times, make grave mistakes and perform achievements that bring happiness to those who witness them.

It must be the Christmas air. How thoroughly sick making.
__________________

__________________
Kaye aka BeatrixFan
  #502  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:36 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Well I am truly surprised by that wonderful remark about Princess Diana. I do hope it is not the Christmas air!
__________________

__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #503  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:40 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I'm more interested in the fact that Diana's friends dismissed her relationship with Dodi as a casual fling.

I'm still dumbfounded that Diana would give her father's cufflinks to a casual acquaintance and quite frankly it seems unbelievable.

I know Diana's mother and sister's dismissed Diana's statement about Paul Burrell being her rock as over-dramatic and not indicative of Diana's real relationship to Burrell but now that Diana's friends have downplayed Diana's relationship with Dodi, I wonder if they were being really truthful or did they downplay the relationship because they were trying to protect Diana?
I have always felt that her family and friends were trying to protect her. Her mother shredded a lot of correspondance at KP after she died.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #504  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:59 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
It must be the Christmas air. How thoroughly sick making.
Thank YOU BeatrixFan ! You are the alive proof that we can like both women and still see the truth from the fake. Aww, what a wonderful period Christmas is
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
  #505  
Old 12-14-2007, 06:14 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
We're certainly seeing a different side to Diana. Quite worrying for us 'Camillaphiles' eh?
Speak for yourself darling, I have seen nothing new to alter my opinion of Diana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
I admire Princess Diana and if she did have lovers while married - as I have said before it is because Prince Charles left her for another woman in 1986. BeatrixFan, or others - if you where about 25 and left in a loveless marriage what would you do
Certainly not sleep around. I have never seen any evidence to substantiate your statement that Charles left her in '86, was this before or after her first affair? I also see no need for you to bring the failed marriage into every post. It bears no relevance to this thread, as far as I can see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I'm more intrigued by Diana's gift of her father's cufflinks to Dodi. Diana loved her father dearly and I just can't imagine she would give a momento from her father to someone who was just a casual fling
She also gave a pair to Hewitt, perhaps it was a bid to 'cement' Dodi's affection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
what I actually meant was that I had always believed that Diana had been quite spiteful to the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh..... .....It must be the Christmas air. How thoroughly sick making.
As we know things changed with the revelations in the Morton book in 1992. Although I don't for a moment believe that he had anything to do with her death, things must have become very strained.

Christmas air, bah humbug!
  #506  
Old 12-14-2007, 07:38 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,680
The Royalist - Diana Inquest: Princess's Love Letters To Dodi Revealed
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
  #507  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:09 PM
Russophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Portland, United States
Posts: 4,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
I admire Princess Diana and if she did have lovers while married - as I have said before it is because Prince Charles left her for another woman in 1986. BeatrixFan, or others - if you where about 25 and left in a loveless marriage what would you do?
I was. You get out of it is what you do. Not have numerous affairs.
  #508  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:27 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
I have always felt that her family and friends were trying to protect her. Her mother shredded a lot of correspondance at KP after she died.
Yes, well that's understandable. I simply remember a lot of people quoted Diana's friends as telling the gospel truth about Diana's relationship to Dodi because they were the closest to Diana; however, if they disapproved of the al-Fayeds or were trying to protect Diana's reputation, they would have a motive for downplaying the relationship or make it sound less serious than it could have been.

It makes it harder for the rest of us to know what really was going on.

The exchange between Prince Philip and Diana was also surprising in other ways. I never would have regarded Prince Philip as a marriage counsellor and I am shocked that Diana would have asked him of all people for help in her marriage. Philip didn't get along with Charles so he wouldnt' have been much help anyway so he was right about that but his letter sounded unusually cheerful given what we know of his character.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #509  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:33 PM
ghost_night554's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,785
Maybe the reason they didn't divorce sooner was because they thought it would hurt the monarch is some way. I can't give you a real answer in what way it would have hurt the monarch but I'm just giving you an example here. Anyways back to the inquest, I'm getting a bit on the confused side with this inquest I'm hearing so many different sides to the story. Quite obviously she wasn't pregnant, I mean her friends said she wasn't, the coroner even stated she was on birth control around the time of her death, how he found that out I dunno. But clearly knowing she was on birth control could not in any way have been tampered with her friends trying to protect her and lie well that could be possible but obviously that's not the case we've had much more evidence suggesting that she obviously wasn't pregnant. Engaged now that one while I don't beleive it still has me completly lost just cause again everyone has a different side to the story.
  #510  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:34 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Certainly not sleep around. I have never seen any evidence to substantiate your statement that Charles left her in '86.
Skydragon do you remember Prince Charles' 1995 interview with Mr. Dimbley? It was shown on television when Charles' Dimbley written autobiography came out. Charles said in that interview that around 1986 their marriage was broken down and could not be fixed and that he had a special friend in Camilla. Also, in the interview he said that he never loved Diana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Was this before or after her first affair?
Everything that I have read on them - except James Hewitt's books and interview point to Diana starting her love affairs after Charles has left her. I believe if she could have divorced Charles earlier she would have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I also see no need for you to bring the failed marriage into every post. It bears no relevance to this thread, as far as I can see.
I only bring up the failed marriage in this thread and the thread with Hewitt being Harry's father. I see it as very relavent to how Diana's short life was played out. If she was loved I don't think she would have needed lovers and she would not have been with Dodi in Paris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
As we know things changed with the revelations in the Morton book in 1992. Although I don't for a moment believe that he had anything to do with her death, things must have become very strained.
The relationship with Diana and the Royal family in 1992 must have been very strained, but I don't believe Philip ordered her death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Christmas air, bah humbug!
The holiday usually bring out the best in people!!!!
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #511  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:54 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Yes, well that's understandable. I simply remember a lot of people quoted Diana's friends as telling the gospel truth about Diana's relationship to Dodi because they were the closest to Diana; however, if they disapproved of the al-Fayeds or were trying to protect Diana's reputation, they would have a motive for downplaying the relationship or make it sound less serious than it could have been. It makes it harder for the rest of us to know what really was going on.
The only thing that I can think of is that truly Diana's friend and family were compartmentalized in her life. Her family really did not know her and her friends were told just so much. I think the cuff links speaks volumes. So, now I am really wondering if Mr al Fayed was wrong about the relationship being serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
The exchange between Prince Philip and Diana was also surprising in other ways. I never would have regarded Prince Philip as a marriage counsellor and I am shocked that Diana would have asked him of all people for help in her marriage. Philip didn't get along with Charles so he wouldnt' have been much help anyway so he was right about that but his letter sounded unusually cheerful given what we know of his character.
Prince Philip runs the household and family. His word is everything to his family. Diana needed someone to talk to and I think it was Philip's role as family elder to help her. You have to remember - Diana wanted to stay in the graces of the royals for her role as Princess and mother to the future King.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #512  
Old 12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
I was. You get out of it is what you do. Not have numerous affairs.
Sorry for you.

I think Diana and Charles decided to stay together for the children and Britain. I think she liked being a Princess and star. But finally around 1990 she decided to get out of the marriage by having "Diana Her True Story" written. I don't understand the affairs she had after Hewitt and before her separation. I do not think it was wise.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #513  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:12 PM
ghost_night554's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,785
I was looking at the letters, receipts everything and I take back what I had said a few pages back, really everything could just be made up there's no real proof that it's real but that being said I definitly think we're getting the real deal with this inquest and hopefully it'll eventually clear up alot of the confusion.
  #514  
Old 12-15-2007, 06:39 AM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,906
Platell's People: Justice at last for the loathsome Mr Fayed

As Mohamed Al Fayed's legal vultures were busy pecking over the tragic deaths of Princess Diana and Dodi, one truth about the Princess's life emerged in the High Court this week.
After "acid" Raine Spencer's fanciful testimony about her stepdaughter's supposed intentions, a real love story came to light as discreetly as it had begun - that between Diana and Hasnat Khan.

This young doctor could not have been more different from Dodi. He was a devoted heart surgeon from a modest family who had made his own way in the world and had met Diana when she attended a charity event at his hospital. They would meet secretly at his small, shabby flat.
There were no jets, no yachts, no Paris Ritz, no diamond rings in their courtship. But Hasnat was, we now know, perhaps the love of Diana's life.
Though he, like Dodi, was a Muslim, Diana dreamed of marrying him. (In which case, given Mohamed Al Fayed's ludicrous conspiracy theories, one wonders why he wasn't 'bumped off' by Prince Philip long ago.)


What 'Pa' REALLY thought of her: Letters revealed Philip was closer to Diana than anyone thought

How typical of the Royal Family to put their innermost thoughts into letters at arm's length rather than risk a healthy, heated exchange in person. And yet, in retrospect, how sensible.

Just imagine if an emotional Diana had walked into a blistering face-to-face row with her angry father-in-law Prince Philip after the shock-wave of revelations in Andrew Morton's book which deeply embarrassed the royals. The result would have been an ugly and lasting war. Instead in that extraordinary exchange of letters disclosed at the inquest into her death, each was able to consider their words carefully.
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
  #515  
Old 12-15-2007, 07:21 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Skydragon do you remember Prince Charles' 1995 interview with Mr. Dimbley? It was shown on television when Charles' Dimbley written autobiography came out. Charles said in that interview that around 1986 their marriage was broken down and could not be fixed and that he had a special friend in Camilla. Also, in the interview he said that he never loved Diana.
We clearly watched different interviews, this is what was said in the 1994 interview -
It was the moment that gripped 13 million television viewers more than a decade ago. Jonathan Dimbleby, the broadcaster and writer, asked whether the Prince of Wales had tried to keep his marriage vows and stay faithful.
The heir to the throne, who was sitting opposite his inquisitor at Highgrove, his country home, paused. "Yes, absolutely," he responded, before hesitating again. "Yes, until it had irretrievably broken down - us both having tried." - so my question to you, is when did he say he never loved Diana?
Quote:
Everything that I have read on them - except James Hewitt's books and interview point to Diana starting her love affairs after Charles has left her. I believe if she could have divorced Charles earlier she would have.
I suggest you read this,
Quote:
I only bring up the failed marriage in this thread and the thread with Hewitt being Harry's father. I see it as very relavent to how Diana's short life was played out. If she was loved I don't think she would have needed lovers and she would not have been with Dodi in Paris.
At that you might as well blame her parents for having her, for splitting up, going through an acrimonious divorce etc. Was she forced to co write the Morton book, was she forced to do the Panorama interview, of course not, these were choices she made. It is immaterial what led her to be in Paris with Fayed, she wasn't forced. As an adult she chose to have an affair with Dodi, she chose to get in a car that night and she chose not to wear a seatbelt.
Quote:
The holiday usually bring out the best in people!!
It doesn't change the facts does it, there is no way on this earth or fullers that I could sit and write what I considered, in my heart, to be a pack of lies.

Lets try to leave the he did this and she did that out of it, this is about her inquest, not a failed marriage!
  #516  
Old 12-15-2007, 07:44 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I'm more intrigued by Diana's gift of her father's cufflinks to Dodi. Diana loved her father dearly and I just can't imagine she would give a momento from her father to someone who was just a casual fling.
When her father died, all his non Spencer specific goods would have gone to Raine, the Spencer specific would have gone to his son. It is quite possibly that these cufflinks were just one of many cast offs that Diana acquired over the years. Things were hardly cosy between them at the time of his death or in the preceding years when Raine was allegedly stopping the Spencer children from seeing him, hence the rumours of the Spencer children throwing Raine out.

My question would be - is it likely that he would have given a set of mens cufflinks to his daughter as a gift?

I have heard lots of people giving a gift with 'these were a gift from ???, so they mean a lot to me', or even 'these were always ???? favourite and I would like you to have them'.

Transcripts of the letters to Dodi, neither of which strike me as anything other than 'flowery' thank you letters to a summer fling partner.

http://www1.sky.com/news/Diana%20Letter%20Typed.pdf
http://www1.sky.com/news/Diana%20Letter%20Typed%202.pdf

Another thought I had, , was how duplicitous of Diana to be denying any involvement in the Morton book whilst writing 'Dearest Pa' letters. I expect Phillip was less than impressed when she was finally outed, in 1993 (I believe).
  #517  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:51 AM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
We clearly watched different interviews
Clearly, both of us formed different opinions and missed some information. Also, I live in the United States and you live in Great Britian and Scotland. I think this country got more coverage about Diana's side. I have read books on Charles - Junors and Dimbleby. Also a book on Charles turning 50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
So my question to you, is when did he say he never loved Diana?
It was in the newpapers the next few days and written in books that Diana had to go comfort William and Harry after Charles' interview. She told them "your father did love me." Also, that she was so sad and angry that people she thought were her friends helped the affair by giving Charles and Camilla a place to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It doesn't change the facts does it, there is no way on this earth or fullers that I could sit and write what I considered, in my heart, to be a pack of lies.
That above statement is my feelings too! After Diana's death and her sons acceptance of Camilla, I have accepted her too and moved on. I think this inquest has brought up old wounds for people that admire the BRF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Lets try to leave the he did this and she did that out of it, this is about her inquest, not a failed marriage!
Skydragon, it does take two people to make a marriage work and I think they did not try hard enough. I also think Diana's had a lot of bad luck in this life. This is an inquest, but Diana is dead and can not defend herself. I feel so sorry about her life because she really did not have anyone to truly love her. Since her death, almost all close to her have cash in on her in some way, even Prince Charles. It is hard to see her being pick apart in books for 10 years and this inquest talking about 5 or more lovers. What was the point of that? This is a forum for different opinions to be discussed and maybe changed. I like reading different point of views, maybe changing my mind and discussing.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #518  
Old 12-15-2007, 09:14 AM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
My question would be - is it likely that he would have given a set of mens cufflinks to his daughter as a gift?
Families give jewellry as gifts to their heirs. Diana's father was male so cufflink are appropriate. Diana also, at the time of her father's death was being helped by him with photos for Mr. Morton's book. I believe his death during that time -1992 was very hard for Diana.

So if Dodi was just a fling, why would she give her father's cufflinks? She could afford another gift. Another thought that hit me is - did we get the right info that Hewitt was given cufflink's that were her fathers. Diana's father died in 1992. The affair with Hewitt was 1986-to about 1990.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Another thought I had, , was how duplicitous of Diana to be denying any involvement in the Morton book whilst writing 'Dearest Pa' letters. I expect Phillip was less than impressed when she was finally outed, in 1993 (I believe).
I thought it came out after her death by Mr. Morton. Also, she did not have a fight going on with Prince Philip and the Queen. So why not call him Dearest Pa? My in-laws are very dear to me. I would still be nice to them if anything ever happen to my marriage.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #519  
Old 12-15-2007, 09:19 AM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
I definitly think we're getting the real deal with this inquest and hopefully it'll eventually clear up alot of the confusion.
I feel that there are more questions then answers being brought up and we are starting to see that maybe and I said maybe, Mr. al Fayed was not a total liar about Diana and Dodi relationship and accident.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
  #520  
Old 12-15-2007, 09:39 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator in Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,476
Since the Inquest has turned into an entertaining "no detail too small" examination of the later years of her life, let's go off on a tangent from the current line of Inquest-inspired titillation and ask: what relevance do Diana's father's cufflinks have with a multiple-fatality car crash in a Paris tunnel?
__________________

__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Closed Thread

Tags
diana princess of wales, diana's death and funeral, duke of edinburgh, inquest, mohamed al fayed, prince philip, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Verdict of the Diana Inquest, April 2008, and Aftermath wbenson Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 325 05-31-2012 08:33 PM
The Late Diana, Princess of Wales News Thread 7: October 2007-June 2008 Warren Current Events Archive 237 06-15-2008 07:18 AM
The Chelsy Davy Thread 6: April-October 2007 Avalon Current Events Archive 212 10-07-2007 03:26 AM
The Late Diana, Princess of Wales News Thread 5: April-June 2007 sirhon11234 Current Events Archive 210 06-06-2007 03:03 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit 2016 catherine middleton style countess of wessex coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events dom duarte duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll felipe vi grand duchess josephine-charlotte grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl gustaf's birthday king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:54 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises