Social Norms: Diana and Staff


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
:previous: The prosecution wouldn't ask her because charges are always pressed in the name of the Crown. Her Majesty the Queen couldn't testify in a case brought on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen. In the same way, she wouldn't be asked to testify for the defence, because she'd be defending someone against charges brought under her name.
 
The incident with Diana popping into the kitchens occurred at Balmoral during her long honeymoon. She disliked the lifestyle at Balmoral and began calling into the kitchens for some company. One day she did so, and according to Tina Brown in 'The Diana Chronicles,' she was approached by the Yeoman of the Glass and China, who nodded towards the green baize door out of the kitchens and said "Over there is your side of the house, ma'am, and this is our side". Diana beat a blushing retreat!
 
Okay, the defense could call Charles, but I still can't think of anything he could have added to the case.

Charles could not testify about the conversation between the Queen and Burrell because he did not witness it. His evidence would be hearsay only and therefore of no value.

Only the Queen and Burrell could testify to the conversation between them.
 
The incident with Diana popping into the kitchens occurred at Balmoral during her long honeymoon. She disliked the lifestyle at Balmoral and began calling into the kitchens for some company. One day she did so, and according to Tina Brown in 'The Diana Chronicles,' she was approached by the Yeoman of the Glass and China, who nodded towards the green baize door out of the kitchens and said "Over there is your side of the house, ma'am, and this is our side". Diana beat a blushing retreat!
While it seems harsh, I think the staff were entitled to carry out their duties without Diana aimlessly watching. The royal households and indeed her own family home was run by the man or the lady of the house communicating their desires to the Butler or Housekeeper or even the Yeoman of the Glass and China.

This pathetic picture of a sad and lost little girl, just wanting someone to talk to just doesn't wash. Althorp isn't a semidetached and it wasn't just staffed by a Housekeeper and Cook. I would imagine both her mother and stepmother would never have allowed Diana to distupt staff there even if she had been welcome to tea and biscuit as a child/teen. She was well and truely grown up and had moved to her own flat.

Just image a young staff member trying to carry out their duties and suddenly there's "The Princess of Wales/Duchess of Rothesay" coming up behind them. They were just as prone to be enthralled as any other person and suddenly here they are just doing their job and here she is wanting a chat. How awkward, embarassed and inarticulate that could have made them. And then there's the "I couldn't get the xxxxx finished because the Princess of Wales stopped by for a chat.

I have never understood what motivated Diana to "drop in on the staff" and think how that would have destabilised the flow of the house. Diana had a lot of friends before she was married and was used to the country house lifestyle. It's not like the Chef's assistant was her BFF. There were people to see and places to go whether she was at KP or Balmora or Highgrove.
 
It was unprofessional and it is never wise to mingle too much with staff. Of course there can be a true devotion and loyalty but in the end it always is and remains an employer-employee relationship. It is indeed remarkable that a lady, used to ancestral estates and countryside, seems so bored as hell in venues as Balmoral. No wonder the princely couple grew totally apart, knowing Charles' profound love for the counrtyside, the nature and tranquil...
 
Thanks for the information, but that wouldn't explain why the defense or the prosecution wouldn't have just asked her if it was important to the case. If nothing else, the defense could have used the media to pester the palace about it.

Okay, the defense could call Charles, but I still can't think of anything he could have added to the case.

I believe the idea was to have him identify some of the property. It was never a foregone conclusion that he was going to be called to testify, but that suggestion was floated about in the media.

I do remember that the police had told Prince Charles at the beginning that Burrell had sold some property and had been photographed wearing some of Diana's clothes. This turned out to be false but the police never updated Charles. Until the end, the royals thought that the police had proof that Burrell had actually sold property. When Charles found out that was not true, he told the Queen, who remembered that Burrell had told her he was storing some things, and that was the end of that trial. ;)

However Burrell has ultimately turned out to be, I think he really was treated disgracefully by the police over this matter. They deserved to have the Queen step in and end it.
 
Not everything William does is related to his mother. William has a child and a wife who is a home maker and a cook, I'm sure it has more to do with that then some snippet Diana gave to Andrew Morton.

I also wonder if Williams reluctance to become a full time royal has a little to do with not wanting to being in a lot of staff to do the things he can no longer do and have them start leaking stories.
My father's mother committed suicide just before his 8th birthday because she had cancer, and at the time treatment was brutal. According to my mother it affected his life right up to when he died at the age of 72.
 
I did not know Victoria wanted to be present at all the births - thanks for the tidbit. I knew she was overbearing and intermeddling (understatement!) but had no idea she wanted to be at deliveries. What the heck for?

Maybe she wanted to be at the conceptions, too. :p

She also loved to grieve and when family members were not grieving quite enough to her liking they would get some stern letters about that too.

She also was so angry about her girls breastfeeding against her orders she called one of her cows after one of her daughters.
 
Victoria wanted to help by sitting by the bedside of the mother to-be and soothing them (stroking their arm and their forehead etc). This was especially true for her motherless granddaughters, Alice's offspring. Victoria Battenburg (later Milford Haven) gave birth to her first child who became Princess Alice of Greece, (Prince Philip's mother), at Windsor. She had also been by her daughter Alice of Hesse's bedside when Victoria Battenburg was born.

She was extremely annoyed that she missed the births of all Princess Alexandra's babies. The Princess of Wales had a habit of giving birth prematurely!
 
In Diana, Sarah Bradford wrote:

Diana was no fool where domestic staff were concerned and Stephen Barry himself recognized that his happy years of getting away with everything with the indulgence of the Prince of Wales would soon be over. He jumped before he was pushed.
:brush::brush::brush::brush::brush:
 
In Diana, Sarah Bradford wrote:
Most of the staff believed that Diana did 'winkle' Stephen Barry out of his position: 'he was keeping the Prince way back in the Dark Ages,' said one, 'she wanted to drift him into the present.'
 
Sometimes I've wondered whether Diana had something like Attention Deficit Disorder. She was known for being very energetic and picking up on things quickly, yet she didn't do well in school. She seemed to need a lot of stimulation, always calling her friends on the phone, shopping, etc. I think that London probably gave her the variety of things she needed to keep herself from being bored. Spending a weekend or a short vacation in the country might have been okay; but to a person who needed to keep stimulated and lots of things to keep her attention, it might have been very challenging indeed. From what I understand, holidays with the Royal Family mean doing the same things at the same time, day in, day out. It would be a hyperactive person's nightmare.

It is indeed remarkable that a lady, used to ancestral estates and countryside, seems so bored as hell in venues as Balmoral. No wonder the princely couple grew totally apart, knowing Charles' profound love for the counrtyside, the nature and tranquil...
 
:previous: Diana was no stranger to the "Shooting, hunting, fishing" life in the country, it's just that contrary to those bucolic photos of she and Charles smiling and relaxed in the country prior to the wedding, she loathed it but she didn't mind pretending. It is a mark of her familiarity with that lifestyle that she fooled everybody because she was on familiar turf.

It wasn't until after the marriage where she showed what she really liked, namely London with all it's glitz and glamour, clothes and jewels and sailing around the Med with like minded people soaking up the sun sea and sand. A pretty far cry from the peace and tranquility of Sandringham and Balmoral.
 
:previous: Oh yes, I agree; which is why I think that she could spend short periods of time in the country but yearned for the city once she was expected to spend a lot of time there. She was "used to it" but didn't like it.
 
Sometimes I've wondered whether Diana had something like Attention Deficit Disorder. She was known for being very energetic and picking up on things quickly, yet she didn't do well in school. She seemed to need a lot of stimulation, always calling her friends on the phone, shopping, etc. I think that London probably gave her the variety of things she needed to keep herself from being bored. Spending a weekend or a short vacation in the country might have been okay; but to a person who needed to keep stimulated and lots of things to keep her attention, it might have been very challenging indeed. From what I understand, holidays with the Royal Family mean doing the same things at the same time, day in, day out. It would be a hyperactive person's nightmare.

Interesting- you may be right, but I have heard, and seen in photos, one of Diana's great gifts was to totally focus her attention on the person she was speaking with. Could she do that with ADD? But then, as you mention, some signs were there. Complicated psyche.
 
I wonder, roseroyal, whether a person's motivation in something can affect her ability to concentrate? I'm over 50 now, and I find it harder to concentrate on things than I could even 10 years ago. But if something fascinates me, or if I really want to listen to what someone has to say, I can focus. It's harder work than it was, but I can do it if my motivation is high enough. :flowers:
 
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Did you mean me- roseroyal? If so, I think you may be right. May be. Still not 100% sure either way. But then we'll never know. Of anything besides some sort of mental illness and bulimia. Behavioral disorder like ADD- like I said, just don't know. And doesn't really matter- does not change my opinion of Diana. Was just giving my 2 cents...
 
I'm not sure Diana had any behavioral disorders or any mental issues. I think she was just a young woman trying to find her way and what she wanted.
 
I'm not sure Diana had any behavioral disorders or any mental issues. I think she was just a young woman trying to find her way and what she wanted.
So you are saying Diana was lying when she admitted that she suffered from an eating disorder and depression?
 
Prince Harry is openly Dyslexic. There is a strong hereditary link with that SpLD's I believe. The Late Princess of Wales had, as we all do, her strengths and weaknesses. We are all only human.
 
I thought this thread was about the social norms (or the lack of it?) between the late Diana and her staff?
 
I think that Di was used to a more informal household where she did as a child spend time in the kitchen chatting with her family's servants.. and she was lonely soon after her marriage so she went in search of company. But if she did it a lot, it probaby DID upset the staff, making ti hard for them to get on with their work or watching what they said.. so the butler I think is said to have told her that she should not be there. And later on I think she veered between being too friendly with the servants and then getting angry or haughty if she felt that they were taking advantage of her friendliness.
 
I think that Di was used to a more informal household where she did as a child spend time in the kitchen chatting with her family's servants.. and she was lonely soon after her marriage so she went in search of company. But if she did it a lot, it probaby DID upset the staff, making ti hard for them to get on with their work or watching what they said.. so the butler I think is said to have told her that she should not be there. And later on I think she veered between being too friendly with the servants and then getting angry or haughty if she felt that they were taking advantage of her friendliness.

One thing that has hit me time and time again in reading many sources about Diana's relationships with those around her is that in just about all of them, its been stated that one habit Diana had that never left her was her inbred compulsion to always say "thank you". Whether its the cook, the gardener or someone that showed kindness to her, she always was writing thank you notes. Very admirable quality.
 
I believe most royals do so. The Queen, the Prince of Wales, the Duchess of Cornwall. Keeping a professional distance but at the same time showing kindness. Sending get-well-soon cards. A gift for a jubilee. A thank you-note when an event, a grand reception or so was very well organized, sending compliments to the chef downstairs in the kitchen, etc. It is also expected, to be a gracious when needed.
 
One thing that has hit me time and time again in been stated that one habit Diana had that never left her was her inbred compulsion to always say "thank you". Whether its the cook, the gardener or someone that showed kindness to her, she always was writing thank you notes. Very admirable quality.
True but she also got into rages/fights with some of her staff.. like the maid who was entertaining a boyfriend, or the many staff who ended up leaving, or the secretary whom she invited on holiday and then told her she had to pay her share of the bill... that's one of the things I find very unpleasant about her. I don't know what she was thinking in that situation.. why invite the girl and then ask her to pay? She msut have known that she couldn't afford it...
 
I really can't understand that episode with Victoria Mendham. I can forgiv other things she did, that were wrong, like slapping her father, because I can understand the emotions involved. but that asking the lady to go on holiday with her and then sticking her with the bill, TWICE, seems horribly unkind. I think that Victoria should perhaps not have accepted without making it clear that it was an invite where she was paid for, if she coud not afford the costs of such a holiday.. but surely the second time, she assumed that Di knew she could not afford to pay and was inviting her free...
 
Sometimes I've wondered whether Diana had something like Attention Deficit Disorder. She was known for being very energetic and picking up on things quickly, yet she didn't do well in school. She seemed to need a lot of stimulation, always calling her friends on the phone, shopping, etc. IIt would be a hyperactive person's nightmare.

I think it was simple depression. She needed stimulation because she was easily depressed and low, so she liked to read certain things and loved the TV. and the phone. I think she didn't do well at school because she couldn't choose what she wanted to study! I remember beng told off by parents when I was a kid because I said "I liked such and such subject and so I did well in it"... but they pointed out that in life you have to do a lot of things you don't want to do...
 
In Diana, Sarah Bradford wrote:

Diana was no fool where domestic staff were concerned and Stephen Barry himself recognized that his happy years of getting away with everything with the indulgence of the Prince of Wales would soon be over. He jumped before he was pushed.
:brush::brush::brush::brush::brush:
Possibly true but also I think she was a bit jealous of people in the staff who had been very close to Charles, such as his valet. And Barry was jealous of her coiming in and being invovled closely with his special royal...
 
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