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  #681  
Old 12-25-2006, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amina

I for one do not think that it will stop the conspiracy theories, sadly that has now become an industry.
There will always be conspiracy theories. It will never stop, just like the conspiracy theories of the deaths of Marilyn Munroe, Elvis etc hasn't stopped. I'm sure these Diana consipracy theories will still be going strong in 50 years time- which i don't have a problem with, as it challenges the status quo. Question everything.
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  #682  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:13 AM
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Princess Diana inquest to resume
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6221269.stm
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  #683  
Old 01-01-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn
Perhaps the RF needs rules to protect them from harassment, along the lines of those that we have about approaching whales and dolphins. Surfers and whale-watching boats are not allowed to approach within a certain distance. Perhaps similar rules should apply to journalists when their quarry is out and about doing ordinary things as opposed to attending official functions.

I've just finished reading Sarah Bradford's book about Diana. Some of the photos and descriptions in there are horrendous. No-one deserves to be hounded like that. If the journalists - and I use the word in its loosest sense - and photographers won't restrain themselves, perhaps they need external restraint.

Of course if people didn't buy the papers, magazines etc that publish these photos then there would be no demand for them.

Personally, and I know that I upset people when I say this, but everyone who ever bought, or even looked at a photo of Diana, taken when she wasn't at an official event, contributed to her death as the paparazzi wouldn't have been following the car if their wasn't a demand for photos and who created that demand - the people who buy the magazines, papers etc.


I claim some responsibility as I did buy the papers that had her photos in them, though rarely because she was in them, as I never liked her but I still did so and therefore believe that I am partly responsible for her death and the hounding that she suffered. But I also believe that most people here are also partly to blame.

If we truly want to criticise the media then we must look at why they publish what they do and take responsibility for the consequences of our actions in causing their actions.
  #684  
Old 01-01-2007, 05:18 AM
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You have a particular way of looking at it. I wouldn't agree as such, but nonetheless your post exhibits an interesting point of view
  #685  
Old 01-01-2007, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
You have a particular way of looking at it. I wouldn't agree as such, but nonetheless your post exhibits an interesting point of view
Just so I am clear - you believe that if there wasn't a demand for photos of Diana then the paparazzi would still have been following her the night she died? Why would they have been following her if there was no demand for their work?

In other words, you believe the paparazzi would have followed her and taken photos just for the heck of it.


No demand for photos = no money for the paparazzi

No money for the photos = no market for the paparazzi's photos.

No market for the paparazzi's photos = no need for the paparazzi to chase the car to get photos as there would have been no market for the photos

No chase = no need to speed

No speed = far greater chance of survival, if the car even crashed

Ergo - no demand for photos = no dead Diana

That is my argument.

Therefore anyone who looked at, bought etc those photos taken when the person, specifically Diana wasn't on duty, is responsible for those photos.

How can you not agree that the reason she died was because the paparazzi chased the car to get photos that people like you and me would looked at and therefore we are responsible for her death?
  #686  
Old 01-01-2007, 05:47 AM
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Forgive me for not breaking out the cat of nine tales and giving myself 100 lashes in repentance j/k

No, your opinion is one I think to be very interesting and I really enjoy noting the many differences of opinion. You feel (?) you contributed to Diana's death by looking at photographs taken by the pap's, I do not and I shall not be made to feel as though I should either.

I largely blame Diana's passing on the alcohol levels of her chauffeur. Mix it with the speed of a car and those paid by whatever agency they work for to be intrusive (no one can deny this), and then we come to a conclusion that I believe correct.

Again, a very interesting post which I enjoyed reading.
  #687  
Old 01-01-2007, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Forgive me for not breaking out the cat of nine tales and giving myself 100 lashes in repentance

No, your opinion is one I think to be very interesting and I really enjoy noting the many differences of opinion. You feel (?) you contributed to Diana's death by looking at a photograph taken by the pap's, I do not and I shall not be made to feel as though I should either.

I largely blame Diana's passing on the alcohol levels of her chauffeur. Mix it wth the speed of a car and those paid by whatever agency they work for to be intrusive and then we come to a conclusion that I believe correct.

Again, a very interesting post which I enjoyed reading.

So you will continue to support the paparazzi who drove her to her death?

Fair enough if you won't accept that people who made it profitable for the paparazzi to take there photos by chasing a young mother as she went about her private business were responsible for her death.

That is your right, of course.

That I disagree will have to be accepted by us both.

You obviously don't blame the paparazzi for Diana's death in any way otherwise you would accept some of the responsibility for them doing what they did. An interesting viewpoint in itself - that the paparazzi weren't responsible for the speeding that contributed to the deaths that night. Why then were they speeding away from them, in your opinion, I wonder?
  #688  
Old 01-01-2007, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
So you will continue to support the paparazzi who drove her to her death?
Will I continue to purchase a magazine I wish to read? Yes.

Quote:
Fair enough if you won't accept that people who made it profitable for the paparazzi to take there photos by chasing a young mother as she went about her private business were responsible for her death
That is your right, of course.
It certainly is. And yes, I don't blame the consumers.

Quote:
That I disagree will have to be accepted by us both.
Absolutely. It does not bother me in any way that you disagree

Quote:
You obviously don't blame the paparazzi for Diana's death in any way otherwise you would accept some of the responsibility for them doing what they did. An interesting viewpoint in itself - that the paparazzi weren't responsible for the speeding that contributed to the deaths that night. Why then were they speeding away from them, in your opinion, I wonder?
However, you're really in no position to place words in anyone elses mouth but your own. If you note, I did mention that the paparazzi along with excessive speed and alcohol where what caused the accident. I am not however, going to blame the consumer majority.

I guess even members of her own family would be at fault then also. Probably even her sons who I'm sure would have (and probably continue to) read magazines.

See, if you start blaming the consumer your pretty much damning the larger majority of the worlds population (where would it end really) and I'm in no position to do that.

I dont expect you to agree and the fact you don't is perfectly fine.

To the Moderators: Could this exchange please be movde to the Diana Inquest thread. Thank you
  #689  
Old 01-01-2007, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Will I continue to purchase a magazine I wish to read? Yes.



It certainly is. And yes, I don't blame the consumers.
I do - they provided the market for the paparazzi photos and therefore were the cause of the chase that night that led to her death - the consumers are responsible and in the long run no one else should be blamed but the consumers who had an insatiable demand for photos of this woman.

If you can't see that then we will have more people hounded like Diana.







Quote:
I guess even members of her own family would be at fault then also. Probably even her sons who I'm sure would have (and probably continue to) read magazines.
If there reason for buying the magazines was to get the photos of Diana taken by the hounding then yes they are responsible.

Quote:
See, if you start blaming the consumer your pretty much damning the larger majority of the worlds population (where would it end really) and I'm in no position to do that.
I am and do blame the consumers who bought the magazines etc with her photos as if there had been no demand for those photos there would have been no chase.

Even drunk drivers can successfully drive a distance without accident when not being chased by paparazzi who want to take photos of people in your car to sell to magazines and papers for consumers who want to see these photos.

Quote:
I dont expect you to agree and the fact you don't is perfectly fine.
No I don't agree as I do believe in supply and demand economics - the demand, by the consumers, was there for these photos so the paparazzi set out to supply the photos to fulfil the demand of the consumers all over the world.

No demand by consumers for the photos no need for the paparazzi to chase the car to get the photos to fulfil the demands of the consumers therefore the consumers were directly responsible for her death.

To the Moderators: Could this exchange please be movde to the Diana Inquest thread. Thank you [/quote]
  #690  
Old 01-01-2007, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
I do - they provided the market for the paparazzi photos and therefore were the cause of the chase that night that led to her death - the consumers are responsible and in the long run no one else should be blamed but the consumers who had an insatiable demand for photos of this woman.
We established your opinion and so I don't feel going around in circles will benefit the discussion. Your point is made, as is mine. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me

Quote:
If you can't see that then we will have more people hounded like Diana.
I'm pretty certain people would be hounded whether I purchased magazines or not (infact it would take a great many to influence even the slightest change in tactics).

Quote:
If there reason for buying the magazines was to get the photos of Diana taken by the hounding then yes they are responsible.
Here you have made (quite openly) the assumption that I myself have purchased a magazine, for the specific purpose of viewing pictures of the late mother of two. Your are very much incorrect.

May I also note that you said to me... 'So you will continue to support the paparazzi who drove her to her death?'

I said that I would continue to purchase magazines I wish to read and I also noted that Harry and Wiliam will probably do the same. No where before your last post did you sight persons being guilty of influencing the chase only if they purchased a magazine with intent of looking at photos of Diana, Princess of Wales. Again, I never purchased a magazine because of Diana so I categorically state that I am not and never have been to blame (I can't even imagine what fraction my supposed guilt would amass).

An interesting discussion and one I feel has run its course on my behalf so this is where I'll leave it.
  #691  
Old 01-01-2007, 10:23 AM
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A camera is not a gun. Yes, the paparazzi can be intrusive, rude, and verbally abusive, but there is no direct physical danger from them unless the pursued decides to react recklessly. If Henri Paul had driven sedately to Dodi's apartment, the couple could have gotten out of the car and walked inside without putting themselves or anyone else at risk. Yes, the paparazzi would have followed and taken pictures, but it would have caused no harm to anyone and Diana would still be alive.

The decision to react recklessly was encouraged by Dodi Fayed and carried out by Henri Paul. The paparazzi did not force them into that situation. They had a choice.

The paparazzi takes a great many photos of a great many celebrities that are published in magazines that people buy. Yet, how many of those celebrities have died because they made the choice to react recklessly? Think about it.
  #692  
Old 01-01-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassie
A camera is not a gun. Yes, the paparazzi can be intrusive, rude, and verbally abusive, but there is no direct physical danger from them unless the pursued decides to react recklessly. If Henri Paul had driven sedately to Dodi's apartment, the couple could have gotten out of the car and walked inside without putting themselves or anyone else at risk. Yes, the paparazzi would have followed and taken pictures, but it would have caused no harm to anyone and Diana would still be alive.

The decision to react recklessly was encouraged by Dodi Fayed and carried out by Henri Paul. The paparazzi did not force them into that situation. They had a choice.

The paparazzi takes a great many photos of a great many celebrities that are published in magazines that people buy. Yet, how many of those celebrities have died because they made the choice to react recklessly? Think about it.
After reading the operation paget report, I'm more and more convinced that the last minute changes in vehicles and drivers and plans that night at the Rtiz were Dodi's pitiful efforts to impress Diana with how well he could organize things, take care of her, and protect her from intrusion.
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  #693  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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i would agree with posts

im sure paparazzi would not so CLOSE to the Diana,Princess of Wales when have camera lens forwards and close on Diana,Princess of Wales.

if Diana would alives today and she not pleasant by paparazzi when have accident in 1997 and taking pictures on Diana lay in the mercades when happened.

im sure paparazzi would learn lesson not get close on the royals like Diana had it.

im sure William and Harry would getting more upset about his mother got dying photos in the mercades dues respect the Wales brothers i dont blame but both makes statesment for not show of his late Mother in the magazine its so digusting!

when become 10 years of her death and not dwell about Princess Diana's accident and lots of more makes William and Harry more upset in the magazines and newspaper.
  #694  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
very interesting part ..... and

If we truly want to criticise the media then we must look at why they publish what they do and take responsibility for the consequences of our actions in causing their actions.
I agree with all that you have said in this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selrahc4
I'm more and more convinced that the last minute changes in vehicles and drivers and plans that night at the Rtiz were Dodi's pitiful efforts to impress Diana with how well he could organize things, take care of her, and protect her from intrusion.
Which he wouldn't have needed to do but for the insatiable desire for more and more pictures.
  #695  
Old 01-01-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Which he wouldn't have needed to do but for the insatiable desire for more and more pictures.
Yes and no. As much as she complained about paparazzi intrusion, Diana had no qualms about manipulating the paparazzi when it suited her purposes, i.e. "The Kiss" pictures. With that, she helped to fuel that insatiable desire. She couldn't change the rules of the game every day and expect the pap to play along.

What Dodi failed to realize is that a few pictures of the couple in the car/walking into his apartment building would have satisfied everyone and harmed no one. Personally, I think the 'cat and mouse' game excited him and led him into reckless judgement.
  #696  
Old 01-01-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Which he wouldn't have needed to do but for the insatiable desire for more and more pictures.
Isn't that an interpretation already? Just acting devil's advocate: what if Dodi has annoyed Diana with something he said during that dinner at the Imperial suite and now wanted to make up for it on bribing her with the infamous ring?

We could read on the report that Diana's friend Lucia Flecha de Lima said she could tell from the CCTV-recording at the Ritz that Diana was angry. We presume it's because of the paparazzi-trouble in Paris. But who knows that and who says that this is the fact? The only peopüle who could know it besides the people who died are the service personell at the dinner in the Ritz. But they won't talk, obviously, because they could have done so already.

If I stick to this scenario, then Diana was angry with Dodi and he was afraid to have botched the relationship and thus wanted to get to the apartment close to Etoile to give her the ring. Remember - the ring was there and Dodi obviously wanted to get to that appartment no matter what the costs.
BTW - it emerged in my reading of the report that there is some substance to the claim by Paul Burrelll that Diana used Dodi as a means to make Hasnat Khan jealous and to win him back. If so, for her the whole paparazzi -thing was good for her aim. Why should she be so annoyed? I personally think that the fact that the paparazzi awaited Diana and Dodi at le Bourget airport speaks for a leak. Why not the princess herself?

Another point that interests me: the reports views the events only in view of Al-Fayed's claims of murder. Things that might hurt or embarrass the princess are left out - eg the question who tipped the paparazzi off etc.
Maybe it just happened because the investigation didn't lead to these questions or they were considered unimportant. But it makes me wonder...
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  #697  
Old 01-01-2007, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassie
Yes and no. As much as she complained about paparazzi intrusion, Diana had no qualms about manipulating the paparazzi when it suited her purposes, i.e. "The Kiss" pictures. With that, she helped to fuel that insatiable desire. She couldn't change the rules of the game every day and expect the pap to play along.
I can't hold the consumer responsible for the way Diana was hounded by the paparazzi. This particular consumer never bought any publication to see photos of Diana, so I don't hold myself in any way responsible, but I don't think the average consumer would be influenced to buy a magazine merely by the promise of seeing Diana fleeing up the street escaping a photographer.

Yes, there was a demand for photos of her, but I think most of the people who were interested would buy the magazines for pics of her no matter what those pics depicted. What I mean is that staged photo-call pics would have been just as enticing to most consumers as lens through the window pics, and probably more so to most. Diana looked a lot better in the staged pics than the hunted prey look we got from the unwanted-attention chase pics.

I'd like to know who constituted the vast insatiable audience who snapped up the mags containing the paparazzi's photos. Surely her fans would want to see her looking good, not looking distressed and dishevelled or thrusting her bag in front of the camera and running up the street. They might have been keen on the pics of Diana holidaying with the Fayeds but weren't most of those pics initiated by Diana announcing to the photographers that she would be doing something at a certain time?

I think Diana's relationship with the media was a one-off phenomenon that arose due to the particular set of circumstances that applied to her and her alone, and for which she was in many ways responsible, and that is unlikely to be repeated, in the foreseeable future anyway.
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  #698  
Old 01-04-2007, 09:35 AM
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See the late princess Diana on page 1 on this article.

http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/01-2007/328People05.pdf

This article is in arabic language on LAHA MAGAZINE. Sorry I can't translate it in good way because my english is poor.
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  #699  
Old 01-04-2007, 03:09 PM
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oh lord, can the woman rest in peace? Inquest after another continues without anything of substance being produced, rather it only adds on to the raging conspiracy

PS. the so-called kiss between doddi & diana was doctored, the Sun admited it was fake. Let's atlease get our facts before jumping on Diana-bashing wagon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Another point that interests me: the reports views the events only in view of Al-Fayed's claims of murder. Things that might hurt or embarrass the princess are left out - eg the question who tipped the paparazzi off etc. Maybe it just happened because the investigation didn't lead to these questions or they were considered unimportant. But it makes me wonder...
The inquest was on her accident, not an open can of warm of the sick triangle of a marriage Charles & Diana had, whether it was Camilla's relation with Stuart Higgins supposedly releasing ""dirt" on C&D marriage, Charles with Sun & Magesty editors or Diana with Richard Kay of Daily Mail & Andrew Morton. If we are talking about playing games with the british press, let's be balance shall we. No legitimate intelligent investigation would even dare to play such a twisted game over who manipulated the press more
  #700  
Old 01-04-2007, 04:08 PM
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I think Jo was asking who let the press know where they were going to be that night.

The investigation has just concluded, the inquest (that has to be held as she was a British citizen who died on foreign soil) was adjorned to allow for the investigation and will restart shortly! So yes, lets get our facts right.
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