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  #661  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:18 PM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
american ambulances carry telephone equipment where they can have access to speak to a doctor if needed and have that as well as good equipment. i did not say a doctor was in the ambulance, i said they had access for help from a doctor and by those means.

and her injuries still probably could have been dealt with sooner and that is what could have saved her life. there is no one questioning the time span and no one agreeing with it either. that is still room for speculation.
No, it isn't. In the report a French medical expert and reknown authority assisted by British experts says that the chance to survive a crash with this kind of internal bleeding is nil. The mere fact that she survived the arrival in hospital is the clear proof that she was very, in factly extremely well, taken care of. Which does not change the outcome but points to the way her medical treatment has to be assessed.
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  #662  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:20 PM
Commoner
 
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Location: erin, United States
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Quote:
Of course you can. Pastis? No problem, if you chew aniseseeds... And that's one of the real problems. To smell Cognac, eg you have to kiss that person! There are alot of alcoholic beverages who don't smell at all. Believe me - I'm into this business for more than 20 years, so should know.
Maybe it's difficult to understand for an American but the way alcoholic beverages are produced for the European and the American market is different. Americans tend to prefer lower percentages of alcohol in their drinks or mix the tasty stuff with neutral tasting alcohols (eg an "American Blended Whiskey " is a blend of whiskey with so called neutral spirits (tasteless, smellless) while a "Blended Scotch Whisky" is a blend of Malt and Grain whisky, both aromatic and "smelly". But strangely enough the more smelly the alcohol is on drinking it, the less you can recognize it later on.
So just believe me, okay? It is possible what the report says.

As for the report about the Fiat. The report is very clear about the fact that they could neither prove nor disprove it but that circumstancial evidence (eg the way the car was maintained, the fac that is was't destroyed but sold to a car seller who could provide the car for investigation etc.) pointed of the innocense of Mr. Andanson. Especially as the "new" repaint was certainly added before the accident took place. And that the car wasn't insured at the time of the accident, so it was dangerous to use it at all. And why should Andanson have used it in the first place? It was already a wreck, it was not reliable and it was traceble to him.... No man in his right mind working for the Secret Service would be sooo stupid! So many questions and they all point to the conclusion that this was not the car that was used.__________________
the smell of liquer could not be hidden when they pulled him out of the car and was there any record of this?

you can't tell me that you can justify that this car could not be the same one and ingore all the other possiblities by that you think he would be smarter than that? he might not have had access to take the car to a wrecker because they were looking for that, but he could sucker some fool into buying the vehicle quicker. a millionaire who doesn't pay insurance for a vehicle? he was a millionaire. that story wouldn't hold water unless somene wanted it to in a police investigation.
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  #663  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Nonsense. There was no reason for speed at all, beyond Dodi's reckless encouragement and Henri Paul's even more reckless judgement. A camera is not a gun. They could have driven sedately to the apartment, smiled for the cameras, and walked inside without mishap. If Henri Paul had not speeded, the photographers would not have given chase. Henri Paul created the situation-a situation which he lost control of.
i thnk it is crazy to overlook them as equally responsible. the m16s thought it to be that when they raided every photographer in the areas home, work, and personal files for them after they kicked in their front doors. if it was that important to take the photos then in that manner, then taking the photos were equally as effective as using a gun.
  #664  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
No, it isn't. In the report a French medical expert and reknown authority assisted by British experts says that the chance to survive a crash with this kind of internal bleeding is nil. The mere fact that she survived the arrival in hospital is the clear proof that she was very, in factly extremely well, taken care of. Which does not change the outcome but points to the way her medical treatment has to be assessed.
he could also lie for them so not to get his country accused of worse. that would be equally predictable and very likely.
  #665  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:29 PM
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i'm going to quit for the day, but i don't believe it was an accident and i'm not going to spend my time trying to make you believe it wasn't. you can't prove it was from where you are and i can't prove it was from where i'm at, but there is evidence supporting both very effieciently. the suspicions can't be denied more believable than what was recorded as government facts.
  #666  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
and her injuries still probably could have been dealt with sooner and that is what could have saved her life. there is no one questioning the time span and no one agreeing with it either. that is still room for speculation.
No. They could not have. That is the whole point. With the internal bleeding that Diana was suffering from, the only possible way of saving her was for surgical intervention within the first 20 minutes after the crash. That was impossible, they could not have cut her free from the car that quickly. After 20 minutes, the patient is subject to major organ damage, brain damage, etc. Once the blood loss had reached a certain point, her heart developed dysarythmia, which led to the numerous cardiac arrests she suffered. It's to the credit of the efforts of the rescue workers and the French doctors that they were able to resucitate her at all. But, by the time they were able to place her in the ambulance, it was a foregone medical certainty that she would not have survived.
  #667  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
i thnk it is crazy to overlook them as equally responsible. the m16s thought it to be that when they raided every photographer in the areas home, work, and personal files for them after they kicked in their front doors. if it was that important to take the photos then in that manner, then taking the photos were equally as effective as using a gun.
Why would MI6 raid their homes when, according to you, all the photographers were allegedly working for them?
  #668  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
the smell of liquer could not be hidden when they pulled him out of the car and was there any record of this?
There are a lot of liquors that don't smell at all. Hence there would be no smell to be hidden. In addition, they would have had to smell the liquor on his breath, as you said earlier. When they pulled him from the car, Henri Paul was not breathing.
  #669  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:40 PM
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Before this discussion gets too out of hand, starting now, no more speculation without evidence. If you admit you don't have evidence for a statement, please don't post the statement.

Everybody, its time to just stick to the facts that we know for now. That is facts backed up by evidence.

ysbel
British forums moderator
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  #670  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:44 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
all ambulances have the same eqiupment.
No they don't. This is very well known fact for people who are interested in facts. Read the link I provided. SAMU vehicles are mobile emergency rooms. American ambulances are not.
  #671  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
he could also lie for them so not to get his country accused of worse. that would be equally predictable and very likely.
No, it absolutely would not. A person cannot bleed the entire volume of their body's blood into their chest cavity through a tear in the main artery of their heart and be expected to live without immediate surgical intervention to stop the bleeding. The evidence to support that can be found in any surgical textbook, and any doctor can supply you with reams of evidence to support that, as well. It can also be found just by applying logic.
  #672  
Old 12-21-2006, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
but there is evidence supporting both very effieciently.
No. There isn't. That's the crux of the issue. The conspiracy theories are just that...theories. Based on rumor fueled by innuendo inflamed by speculation and fattened by gossip.

To believe that Lord Stevens' report is false, one would also have to believe that:

All the gendarme in Paris that night were paid to lie by whatever secret agency/terrorist faction/royal family member you believe was at the heart of the conspiracy;

All eye witnesses were paid to lie;

All the ambulance workers/rescue crew/doctors were paid to lie;

All the photographers were paid to lie;

Trevor Rees Jones was paid to lie;

All of Diana's friends, family members and associates, and Dodi's friends, family members, and associates, were paid to lie;

Mohammed Al Fayed, everyone connected to the Ritz, the jeweler; and Dodi's butler wwere paid to lie;

Prince Charles was coerced to lie;

Prince William and Harry are lying when they say they believe the results of the British investigation; and Prince William lied about his knowledge of the relationship between his mother and Dodi.

The courtiers were paid to lie, the British secret service was paid to lie, the Metropolitan Police were paid to lie, the undertaker, the autopsy doctors, the international media, the hospital staff, and so on and so forth.

Not to mention all the monies that had to have been spent paying the photographers/Henri Paul/the ambulance workers/assassins to kill the Princess as the result of an assassination plot that hinged on 100 different uncontrollable variables for success. And one very simple variable: If the Princess had been wearing her seatbelt, she likely would have survived.

It not only defies credibility, it defies credulity. And then some.
  #673  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassie
No. There isn't. That's the crux of the issue. The conspiracy theories are just that...theories. Based on rumor fueled by innuendo inflamed by speculation and fattened by gossip.

To believe that Lord Stevens' report is false, one would also have to believe that:

All the gendarme in Paris that night were paid to lie by whatever secret agency/terrorist faction/royal family member you believe was at the heart of the conspiracy;

All eye witnesses were paid to lie;

All the ambulance workers/rescue crew/doctors were paid to lie;

All the photographers were paid to lie;

Trevor Rees Jones was paid to lie;

All of Diana's friends, family members and associates, and Dodi's friends, family members, and associates, were paid to lie;

Mohammed Al Fayed, everyone connected to the Ritz, the jeweler; and Dodi's butler wwere paid to lie;

Prince Charles was coerced to lie;

Prince William and Harry are lying when they say they believe the results of the British investigation; and Prince William lied about his knowledge of the relationship between his mother and Dodi.

The courtiers were paid to lie, the British secret service was paid to lie, the Metropolitan Police were paid to lie, the undertaker, the autopsy doctors, the international media, the hospital staff, and so on and so forth.

Not to mention all the monies that had to have been spent paying the photographers/Henri Paul/the ambulance workers/assassins to kill the Princess as the result of an assassination plot that hinged on 100 different uncontrollable variables for success. And one very simple variable: If the Princess had been wearing her seatbelt, she likely would have survived.

It not only defies credibility, it defies credulity. And then some.
oh my gosh! i dont know what you saying!

Princess Diana is have accident but nobody fault who did hit her

but im sure Prince William and Prince Harry is not fault for include of their mother's death and also member of Royals Family DONT include also get off-limits on Diana's accident cases.

after Diana's accident but we have work hard to close cases since 1997 but Mr.Fayeds Dodi's dad went court also because he very more upset on their accident about Dodi and Diana so Mr.Fayeds wanted Dodi and Diana staying at Ritz hotels they wont escape the paparazzi like that but its too late!

the paparazzi wanted fames of Princess Diana all the times for more lots of money like worth million or thousand dollars and France police caught paparazzi photographers for harassment of Princess Diana because Diana need to be alone with Dodi and Diana's brother makes statesment after she died to leave her alone and her family plus Prince William and Prince Harry dues her brother's respectives statesment.

after Diana's death but lord steven makes plans for late Diana,Princess of Wales's death cases since 1997-2006 but we have fight this case hardly!

im sure Prince William and Harry will have right for their mother's death and Prince William is heir he wanted knew what happened on their mother's death its so hard for the boys on mother's death without Diana its so pity!
  #674  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:36 AM
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Sassie is agreeing with you, Sara. She's just pointing out to blackdaisies that in order for Diana's death to be an assassination, far too many highly unlikely things would have had to happen all at once.
  #675  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Sassie is agreeing with you, Sara. She's just pointing out to blackdaisies that in order for Diana's death to be an assassination, far too many highly unlikely things would have had to happen all at once.
right

im
  #676  
Old 12-22-2006, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
he could also lie for them so not to get his country accused of worse. that would be equally predictable and very likely.
Okay, they could all be lying. But for what avail? Why should a reknown expert state things that are wrong in public and risk being exposed by his fellow collegues? For medical professors like the ones who did the expertises nothing is worse than loosing their professional reputation. And there are enough of them around to find the faults if indeed some exist. Any paper worth its price will have handed the report over to other experts for a second analysis - because finding faults will sell their paper. Did you read about any? No? Why?
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  #677  
Old 12-22-2006, 04:48 AM
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If we all stick to discussing the report and the statements, evidence and conclusions presented therein, we have a greater chance of maintaining an interesting and rational discussion. The report contains a wealth of detail, some fascinating, some uncomfortable, and gives a few insights into the last year or two of Diana's life, courtesy of her closest confidantes.

To this end, the thread is not the place to peddle the more ridiculous and fantastic conspiracy theories which abound on the internet.
Members who wish to pursue the murderous medicos-Prince Philip-MI6-paparazzi-lethal syringe connections can do so at the appropriate websites, not here.

Thanks.

The British Royals moderating team,
Avalon, Elspeth, Warren & ysbel
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  #678  
Old 12-22-2006, 06:22 AM
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I just wanted to add to this thread that I think it's fascinating that the British report does not investigate the question that the French had already done: what happened that night? but starts from another end of the story: let's prove or disprove that the conspiracy theories of Mohamed al-Fayed are true.

Mohamed al-Fayed had close to 9 years to find evidence for his claims and the report shows that the investigators were very willing to listen to him and to go even further on using their governmental position. The report clearly indicates that they followed as much avenues of investigations as possible.

It's an interesting work of detective investigation, especially as at the same time numerous private investigators and journalist were doing the same. Yet still they didn't find real convincing evidence for the claims of Mohamed al-Fayed while proving that they tried hard and earnestly.

What was the most interesting for me was the question about a motive. We learn a lot about Diana which is in accordance to the information I got from the books by Burrelll and Ken Wharfe. Especially her love for her sons comes over as an established fact. So I was convinced there was no plot because there was no motive because there was not going to be an engagement once I read that prince William said that his mother did not tell him of an upcoming engagement. Just imagine: al-Fayed claims that Diana and Dodi told him that they would go public with their announcement on the monday - the day Diana planned to be back in London. Is it believable that she would inform the press before she had the proper time to talk to her sons about the change in her (and thus their) situation? Before she had the time to properly introduce the idea to them and further the acquaintance with Dodi? It's completely out of character, so IMHO it's not true. Full stop.

But if that's not true, you can skip the whole rest.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #679  
Old 12-22-2006, 09:25 AM
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I for one am glad that they have had this investigation. Even though it tells us alot of what we already know.

I for one do not think that it will stop the conspiracy theories, sadly that has now become an industry.
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  #680  
Old 12-24-2006, 05:28 PM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Daily Mail claims to have found the second fiat uno driver: a second-generation Vietnamese immigrant. If this is true, the conspiracy theorists will have even less to hold on to.
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