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  #641  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:14 PM
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But, in Europe, as Jo pointed out, helicopters at night are not an option. France is in Europe. Paris is in France. The accident happened in Paris. How much clearer can that be?
i can also ask what the time would be without a life flight and if they drove to the hospital in an ambulance. it was 1 hour and 20 minutes before by the time the ambulance got there that they finally got to the hospital. she was the easiest to remove and should have been the first to leave to the hospital. this makes it suspicious that they did not do their job properly. that is also the reason the photographers were let go because it was the time span to the hospital that caused her death and not their involvement. at least that was the belief of the french courts, but none of the questions of emergency workers were tested, and they have only documented what was said by them as to why they took so much time.
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  #642  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:21 PM
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blackdaisies, do you understand the difference between SAMU ambulances and the sort they have in the USA?
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  #643  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:33 PM
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You do give interesting links - tabloids, New World Order sites and not Rumour Mill - don't you ever assess the reliability of the site in question? There very names tells you something about them - rumours are not proven facts - therefore the site is unreliable and you can't take the word of anything on it as fact, regardless of its purported origin - you need to see the report in a reputable site or paper.

In an earlier post you told me not to believe everything I read in the press, but that is certainly more reliable than believing anything on the internet as the press does have national laws which mean that they have to publish at least with a grain of truth whereas on the internet you can publish a complete lie about someone and no-one is held responsible. (I will give you an example that has affected my own family recently - there is a site whose name I have forgotten where the author writes lies about people and on this site he accused my brother and his friend of saying comments about the Rugby League competition at a particular game, except for the fact that my brother and his friend were at a completely different game and could prove it as they were on national radio at the time. Did this person apologise when his error was pointed out - no - he laughed and said tough see what lies I come up with next about you and yours). Don't believe things written on the internet without doing a reliablity assessment of the site first, just as you would with any printed text - ask questions such as, who is the author, what is known about the author, were they friends or enemies of the person/country/party/religion etc they are writing about, when was the site created, when was the site last updated, where is the corroborating evidence, what is the contradictory evidence. Asking these questions will lead you to trust far, far less of the gossip on the internet.
the means of those types of websites are to analyze what the government could be lieing about and with what sources they have telling them this. that doesn't mean they are inaccurate or lieing because they are conspiracy type topics that are mostly discussed. that is what they were created for and there is freedom of speech against the government who does hide truths from it's people. there is no reason to complain about those kind of websites. how many times has the enquirer been right about a lot of people? i don't believe in six foot grasshoppers or the yeddi, but some of their articles do come out to be true, just like those of the conspiracy resesarch for government matters.

in your years of experience with the law think about this how ever old you are, which mine is mostly from the city of detroit,michigan, u.s.a. for my younger years, we have seen and heard things like cops robbing old ladies in broad daylight and consistently proven being involved in crack houses and prostitutes houses. it was a very bad neighborhood in those days and getting worse now. i live in a small town were some of the same things still go on, so its possible even in france in europe that the government is equally capable in being involved in much worse crimes especially in matters of spies, politics, and a lot of nasty business for the royal familly. i think you must live in protected territory to believe even though there are tons of inconsistencies, that the government is always right. i disagree with that.

when there are inconsistencies of records, because now suddenly they have decided he was only 2 times over the limit, where before it was constantly said it was 3, another inconsitency that could have been bent for their purpose, it is questionable since they made a first mistake that there could be others. they are the govenment and i don't blindly follow every word they say, but i am a law abiding person and has not in the best ability ever broken any laws. i would question any inovolvement being that none of those things make sense for how they happened and why, so this accident is not in my opinion an accident for those reasons. i think there are too many inconsistancies and too many poeple changing their stories for this theory to ever be acceptable.
  #644  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
that is also the reason the photographers were let go because it was the time span to the hospital that caused her death and not their involvement. at least that was the belief of the french courts,
The belief of the French courts was that Henri Paul was drunk and crashed the car containing Diana, Dodi, Trevor and himself at high speed into an immovable object. As Henri Paul, Dodi and Diana had chosen not to put their seatbelts on, they all suffered unsurvivable injuries!
As simple as that!
  #645  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
i can also ask what the time would be without a life flight and if they drove to the hospital in an ambulance. it was 1 hour and 20 minutes before by the time the ambulance got there that they finally got to the hospital. she was the easiest to remove and should have been the first to leave to the hospital. this makes it suspicious that they did not do their job properly. that is also the reason the photographers were let go because it was the time span to the hospital that caused her death and not their involvement. at least that was the belief of the french courts, but none of the questions of emergency workers were tested, and they have only documented what was said by them as to why they took so much time.
That is not the opinion of the French courts. It took nearly an hour to remove Diana from the car, because her foot was trapped and her arm was broken-and no rescue team in this world is going to be aggressive with a patient with an obvious upper extremity fracture, and other injuries that are difficult to assess while they are in the trapped postion in the car. Diana was bleeding internally from a tear in the artery of her heart, and it could not be even assessed, much les repaired, until they could safely remove her from the car-and without immediate surgery, the chances were nil that she would have survived. In other words, it was a lost cause while she was still in the car.

What would you have had them do? Yank her forcefully out of the car without consideration for her injuries?

From the Alma tunnel to the hospital, it took 26 minutes. 26 minutes is not an hour and 20 minutes.

The photographers were let go because it was concluded that they did not violate the Good Samaritan law, which was the only basis for detaining them. While they contributed to the events leading up to the accident, they did not cause the crash. That responsibility lies firmly on Henri Paul's shoulders. By drinking and speeding, he put himself and his passengers in a risky situation that he could not ultimately handle, lost control of the car and crashed. Period.
  #646  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:42 PM
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blackdaisies, do you understand the difference between SAMU ambulances and the sort they have in the USA?
does that mean french ambulances are inefficient to ours? i think by now all use equally effective amulances and if not, then the third world type ambulances should be removed from such a rich govenments use at hospitals.

i'll check to find out if france has defective equipment, but that can be another incident where france might hide all things disagreeing with them.
  #647  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
does that mean french ambulances are inefficient to ours?
No, it doesn't. It means that unlike American ambulances, which are mostly just for fast transportation to the nearest hospital, SAMU vehicles are pretty much hospitals on wheels. A person in a SAMU ambulance is as good as being in hospital already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMU

You're assuming other countries do things the same way as in America, which isn't a good assumption. If you didn't know that the French ambulances are equipped as mobile emergency rooms, you haven't been doing nearly such thorough research as you seem to think you have.
  #648  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM
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That is not the opinion of the French courts. It took nearly an hour to remove Diana from the car, because her foot was trapped and her arm was broken-and no rescue team in this world is going to be aggressive with a patient with an obvious upper extremity fracture, and other injuries that are difficult to assess while they are in the trapped postion in the car. Diana was bleeding internally from a tear in the artery of her heart, and it could not be even assessed, much les repaired, until they could safely remove her from the car-and without immediate surgery, the chances were nil that she would have survived. In other words, it was a lost cause while she was still in the car.

What would you have had them do? Yank her forcefully out of the car without consideration for her injuries?

From the Alma tunnel to the hospital, it took 26 minutes. 26 minutes is not an hour and 20 minutes.

The photographers were let go because it was concluded that they did not violate the Good Samaritan law, which was the only basis for detaining them. While they contributed to the events leading up to the accident, they did not cause the crash. That responsibility lies firmly on Henri Paul's shoulders. By drinking and speeding, he put himself and his passengers in a risky situation that he could not ultimately handle, lost control of the car and crashed. Period.

they arrived at the scene at 12:40 by the report, so it was an hour and 20 minutes before they removed her from the car and drove her to the hospital.

a good samaritan does not create bad traffic accidents and then photograph those who died in it, so there are other violations they could have been sighted for but why when they didn't care. why would they not care? more room for speculation and inconsitencies where they might normally have been arrested and charged.

they have tools to remove people and are trained within time limits on how to do this. they have saws and other things to cut her out, but i don't know what the report says on this, but there were public statments that say she was not cut out of the car and it was also not the special cars for that it was bullet proof so that made it easier. and just because the report says different doesn't mean i'm wrong because they could have been trying to hide negligence on their part at the most is why they would lie. the two most closely next to her, by her side and in front were quickly declared dead, so why the delay in removing her. they had to wait to remove trevor jones, but no one else. so it still is fishy no matter how you say it happened.
  #649  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
does that mean french ambulances are inefficient to ours?
No. SAMU ambulances have an excellent reputation and service record. They are just operated differently than American ambulances. An operating theatre on wheels, so to speak. Doesn't make them wrong, just makes them different.

Quote:
i'll check to find out if france has defective equipment, but that can be another incident where france might hide all things disagreeing with them.
A good search of the Internet will, I am sure, provide you with whatever 'evidence' (and I use that term loosely) you require to support any theory you come up with.
  #650  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:59 PM
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No, it doesn't. It means that unlike American ambulances, which are mostly just for fast transportation to the nearest hospital, SAMU vehicles are pretty much hospitals on wheels. A person in a SAMU ambulance is as good as being in hospital already.
all ambulances have the same eqiupment. they are emergency saving transportation with trained medical drivers plus they have access to a doctor to advise them on all cases.

that just makes it even more suspicious that they had the supposed ability to do more, but she still didn't make it.
  #651  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:01 PM
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The Good Samaritan law just means that a person at the scene of an accident has to call for help.

Initially it was thought that the photographers just stood around taking pictures and nobody called for help but later it was found that one of the photographers had called Paris's version of 911 to report the accident and the other reporters saw the call. That was all that was required of them under the Good Samaritan law.
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  #652  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:03 PM
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A good search of the Internet will, I am sure, provide you with whatever 'evidence' (and I use that term loosely) you require to support any theory you come up with.
a good search in govenment released propaganda working for the royal family would be a better and more accurate search?
  #653  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by blackdaisies
all ambulances have the same eqiupment. they are emergency saving transportation with trained medical drivers plus they have access to a doctor to advise them on all cases.

that just makes it even more suspicious that they had the supposed ability to do more, but she still didn't make it.
American ambulances don't carry a doctor in the ambulance with them. French ambulances carry an emergency doctor and an entire medical team.

Diana suffered a severe injury to the main artery going to her heart. That artery pumps the largest amount of blood in the body. If a person is bleeding from this artery, the loss of blood is overwhelming and the medical staff have truly little time to save the patient. If the team had to cut her out of the car before they could treat her, the time it took to cut her out of the car lost precious minutes while she was bleeding.
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  #654  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
The Good Samaritan law just means that a person at the scene of an accident has to call for help.

Initially it was thought that the photographers just stood around taking pictures and nobody called for help but later it was found that one of the photographers had called Paris's version of 911 to report the accident and the other reporters saw the call. That was all that was required of them under the Good Samaritan law.
it was 50/50 responsibility that the accident was created by the photographers who were chasing them. they were equally guilty of traffic violations of speeding and being part of the cause in a terrible traffic incident killing 3 people. there are laws in france to prosecute people like this if the court chose to use them, so why didn't they? because they wanted her dead could be the only reason.
  #655  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
this story was written "By Jeffrey Steinberg
Executive Intelligence Review - July 7, 2000 ", so if the release of the article is really from "executive intelligence review", it must have some relevance. that is why i believe it, but i think you make a good point that fayed was very angry with a lot of people and resources to do exactly what you say, which is to kill out of retaliation for the death of his son. he has the means and motives to do just that, but i believe andenson was there.

i don't disagree at all with what you are saying, but the government also lied about a lot things, so you can't trust the report any better than you can trust al fayed.

the level of alcohal in henry paul's system and the drugs used were so high that it would be imossible to stand sober or even walk at all, so that is the reason why i question that he was drunk, plus witnesses who say no alcohol was smelled. you can't hide the smell of alcohol.
Of course you can. Pastis? No problem, if you chew aniseseeds... And that's one of the real problems. To smell Cognac, eg you have to kiss that person! There are alot of alcoholic beverages who don't smell at all. Believe me - I'm into this business for more than 20 years, so should know.
Maybe it's difficult to understand for an American but the way alcoholic beverages are produced for the European and the American market is different. Americans tend to prefer lower percentages of alcohol in their drinks or mix the tasty stuff with neutral tasting alcohols (eg an "American Blended Whiskey " is a blend of whiskey with so called neutral spirits (tasteless, smellless) while a "Blended Scotch Whisky" is a blend of Malt and Grain whisky, both aromatic and "smelly". But strangely enough the more smelly the alcohol is on drinking it, the less you can recognize it later on.
So just believe me, okay? It is possible what the report says.

As for the report about the Fiat. The report is very clear about the fact that they could neither prove nor disprove it but that circumstancial evidence (eg the way the car was maintained, the fac that is was't destroyed but sold to a car seller who could provide the car for investigation etc.) pointed of the innocense of Mr. Andanson. Especially as the "new" repaint was certainly added before the accident took place. And that the car wasn't insured at the time of the accident, so it was dangerous to use it at all. And why should Andanson have used it in the first place? It was already a wreck, it was not reliable and it was traceble to him.... No man in his right mind working for the Secret Service would be sooo stupid! So many questions and they all point to the conclusion that this was not the car that was used.
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  #656  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
they arrived at the scene at 12:40 by the report, so it was an hour and 20 minutes before they removed her from the car and drove her to the hospital.
Exactly. It took them nearly an hour to cut her free. That leaves approx. 26 minutes for the drive from the tunnel to the hospital.

Quote:
a good samaritan does not create bad traffic accidents and then photograph those who died in it, so there are other violations they could have been sighted for but why when they didn't care. why would they not care? more room for speculation and inconsitencies where they might normally have been arrested and charged.
Really? What else can they have been charged with, under French law? Please clarify. They didn't impede the rescue attempt. They took pictures. There was no law against that. It was ghoulish, not illegal.

Quote:
they have tools to remove people and are trained within time limits on how to do this. they have saws and other things to cut her out, but i don't know what the report says on this, but there were public statments that say she was not cut out of the car and it was also not the special cars for that it was bullet proof so that made it easier. and just because the report says different doesn't mean i'm wrong because they could have been trying to hide negligence on their part at the most is why they would lie. the two most closely next to her, by her side and in front were quickly declared dead, so why the delay in removing her. they had to wait to remove trevor jones, but no one else. so it still is fishy no matter how you say it happened.
Have you ever had to cut anyone out of a car? I have, and an hour is a minimal time. It very often takes much longer. You cannot be aggressive when extracting someone from a car, which adds to the removal time. Especially, as I already stated, someone with an upper extremity fracture and other injuries that could not be physically assessed until they were free of the car. Diana's blood pressure was also dropping during that time, which indicated internal bleeding, so they would have been even more careful in extracting her.

Again, I ask, what would you have had them do? Yank her forcefully out of the car, regardless of her injuries?

There are NO public statements that say she was not cut out of the car-beyond those that also say she was walking around, which are patently implausible, since no one is capable of walking around while they are suffering from exsaguination.
  #657  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
it was 50/50 responsibility that the accident was created by the photographers who were chasing them. they were equally guilty of traffic violations of speeding and being part of the cause in a terrible traffic incident killing 3 people. there are laws in france to prosecute people like this if the court chose to use them, so why didn't they? because they wanted her dead could be the only reason.
Why would the photographers want her dead? She was a moneymaker for them.
  #658  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:10 PM
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American ambulances don't carry a doctor in the ambulance with them. French ambulances carry an emergency doctor and an entire medical team.

Diana suffered a severe injury to the main artery going to her heart. That artery pumps the largest amount of blood in the body. If a person is bleeding from this artery, the loss of blood is overwhelming and the medical staff have truly little time to save the patient. If the team had to cut her out of the car before they could treat her, the time it took to cut her out of the car lost precious minutes while she was bleeding.
american ambulances carry telephone equipment where they can have access to speak to a doctor if needed and have that as well as good equipment. i did not say a doctor was in the ambulance, i said they had access for help from a doctor and by those means.

and her injuries still probably could have been dealt with sooner and that is what could have saved her life. there is no one questioning the time span and no one agreeing with it either. that is still room for speculation.
  #659  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:13 PM
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Why would the photographers want her dead? She was a moneymaker for them.
that probably wasn't their only job. many were associated with m16s, but their is no proof of that and they have found m16 association from henri paul who was her driver. everyone around her was a snitch to them or was working underground for them. government would hide any information on this because they have their identities to save.
  #660  
Old 12-21-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
it was 50/50 responsibility that the accident was created by the photographers who were chasing them.
Nonsense. There was no reason for speed at all, beyond Dodi's reckless encouragement and Henri Paul's even more reckless judgement. A camera is not a gun. They could have driven sedately to the apartment, smiled for the cameras, and walked inside without mishap. If Henri Paul had not speeded, the photographers would not have given chase. Henri Paul created the situation-a situation which he lost control of.
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