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  #621  
Old 12-20-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
does any one have another link to the report you are speaking of and to a link of what has changed from the 2004 report to what will be in the 2008 report?
I believe the French investigation and the report giving details of the investigation was released in 2004.

Quote:
The law states that when a death occurs outside England and Wales a coroner will become involved if the body is brought into his district and "he has reason to suspect that the deceased died a violent or unnatural death, or has died a sudden death of which the cause is unknown."

So an inquest had to be held in the UK and the royal coroner opened the inquests in January 2004. He then announced that he had asked the head of the Metropolitan Police, John Stevens, to investigate the conspiracy theories.

This is the report that details the investigation of the British team. There is not, as far as I know, another due in 2008.
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  #622  
Old 12-20-2006, 12:07 PM
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Royal Family murdered Diana with the help of MI6 members?

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/cr.../85952-Diana-0

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  #623  
Old 12-20-2006, 06:15 PM
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Perhaps a psych assessment for Mr al Fayed, could and should, be arranged
  #624  
Old 12-21-2006, 07:07 AM
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I just hope that he can find peace within himself and accept that his son died in a tragic accident.
  #625  
Old 12-21-2006, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon

I just hope that he can find peace within himself and accept that his son died in a tragic accident.
I don't think so. IMHO the Paget-report showed clearly that Mohammed al-Fayed was in charge of the whole Diana-Dodi affair and that he wanted them to be together. Dodi appears as over-controlled son whose every move was supervised by his father. IMHO Diana realised where the relationship with Dodi would lead to (hence the "ring-talk" with Burrell) and planned to tell him "no". She after all had nothing to win from a marriage to Dodi - she'd have lost the rest of her standing in British society, get problems with seeing her kids and all the while would have to dance like Mohammed wanted as he was controlling the pursestrings. Why should she marry Dodi?

We don't know if this saying "no" had already happened or not but a woman signals her opinion about an engagement not only with words but with a whole lot of other signs. I guess Dodi was under enormous pressure from his father and realised that he wouldn't be able to fulfill his father's expectation.
IMHO he felt helpless and forced by things he couldn't control (I wouldn't wonder if his father was behind the paparazzi craze as he doesn't strike me as overly protective or caring for the persons who he thought should give him what he wanted while he was the one to profit the most from the situation on showing the world that he was about to capture a princess).

IMHO Dodi only wanted to get out of this situation with an unhappy Diana on his hands - hence the decisions which made them vulnerable and led to their deaths. And maybe he even told his father some of the things that Mohammed tells all the time. We only know that Dodi got rid of his girlfriend immediately before he embarked on his relation with Diana. IMHO he was ordered or even blackmailed by his father to do so. I believe as well that the whole idea of a ring for Diana was Mohammed's doing and that in fact he selected the ring via the phone. He was orchestrating the whole thing - maybe even behind the decision to change the destination that night from the restaurant to his hotel Ritz in order for more publicity.

So maybe Mohammed al-Fayed is angry that his plans went awry, he is guilt-ridden and he looks for a scapegoat. It's understandible but at the same time it's clear that he will never stop.
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  #626  
Old 12-21-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I don't think so. IMHO the Paget-report showed clearly that Mohammed al-Fayed was in charge of the whole Diana-Dodi affair and that he wanted them to be together. Dodi appears as over-controlled son whose every move was supervised by his father. IMHO Diana realised where the relationship with Dodi would lead to (hence the "ring-talk" with Burrell) and planned to tell him "no". She after all had nothing to win from a marriage to Dodi - she'd have lost the rest of her standing in British society, get problems with seeing her kids and all the while would have to dance like Mohammed wanted as he was controlling the pursestrings. Why should she marry Dodi?

We don't know if this saying "no" had already happened or not but a woman signals her opinion about an engagement not only with words but with a whole lot of other signs. I guess Dodi was under enormous pressure from his father and realised that he wouldn't be able to fulfill his father's expectation.
IMHO he felt helpless and forced by things he couldn't control (I wouldn't wonder if his father was behind the paparazzi craze as he doesn't strike me as overly protective or caring for the persons who he thought should give him what he wanted while he was the one to profit the most from the situation on showing the world that he was about to capture a princess).

IMHO Dodi only wanted to get out of this situation with an unhappy Diana on his hands - hence the decisions which made them vulnerable and led to their deaths. And maybe he even told his father some of the things that Mohammed tells all the time. We only know that Dodi got rid of his girlfriend immediately before he embarked on his relation with Diana. IMHO he was ordered or even blackmailed by his father to do so. I believe as well that the whole idea of a ring for Diana was Mohammed's doing and that in fact he selected the ring via the phone. He was orchestrating the whole thing - maybe even behind the decision to change the destination that night from the restaurant to his hotel Ritz in order for more publicity.

So maybe Mohammed al-Fayed is angry that his plans went awry, he is guilt-ridden and he looks for a scapegoat. It's understandible but at the same time it's clear that he will never stop.
Jo, I haven't read that far in the report. Can you point me to the page that refers to this? I'd be really interested in reading it.
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  #627  
Old 12-21-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Jo, I haven't read that far in the report. Can you point me to the page that refers to this? I'd be really interested in reading it.
A lot of it - the sentences marked with IMHO are my own interpretations of the findings in the report. You can find the basic information from which I formed my opinion in the chapter about the ring and the question if Diana selected it herself and if it was an engagement ring (chapter one). The report says IMHO while Diana may have looked into a window of the jeweler in Monte Carlo and liked one, she did not select a ring herself. But the fact that she talked with Burrell about a forthcoming gift of a ring showed me that she realized that Dodi would give her one. Then she talked to friends about not wanting to get married.

The staff of the Ritz tell that Dodi was looking for a ring he could not describe but knew where it had been placed in the shop window in Monte Carlo and they were ordered to search for it. The info about the sizing of the ring etc. by the jeweler is IMHO rubbish - no ring really was selected and it wasn't sized for Diana. Ritz-staff tells that Mohammed al-Fayed wanted information and prices on all the rings his son had selected - taking such a vivid interest in the selection of a ring (while Dodi seems to have looked for a gift, not necessarily a ring) told me that it was Mohammed who was really interested in a symbol for a closer relationship, not Dodi and it was him who decided on how much money there is to spend. Eg Claude Roulet recalling on page 40/41 that after Dodi had told him to look for the ring, he phoned Mohammed and got his orders from Mohammed to do what Dodi wanted.

A lot of the things reported about the situation at the Ritz before they took off for their last ride, especially the orders the security team seem to have gotten, show IMHO the enormous influence of Mohammed al-Fayed and that Dodi was so fed up with the situation that he overruled his father's orders. (in chapter thirteen). Diana's friend Lucia Flecha de Lima tells from the last video of Diana at the Ritz that the princess herself was unhappy and appeared stressed.

All these statements gave me the above mentioned ideas. You can find the statements in the report in chapters one and thirteen. Hope this helps.
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  #628  
Old 12-21-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
So maybe Mohammed al-Fayed is angry that his plans went awry, he is guilt-ridden and he looks for a scapegoat. It's understandible but at the same time it's clear that he will never stop.
Absolutely. And, of course, since the possibility of having the Princess as a prize/daughter in law is no longer, Al Fayed is promoting the next best thing: that she was engaged to Dodi and that she was pregnant with his grandchild. There's some evidence in his rantings that he feels cheated, and he still wants, at least, public acknolwedgement of a resemblance to what could have been.
  #629  
Old 12-21-2006, 12:50 PM
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What about al fayed?

What do you think he will do next? He is so convinced that diana and dodi were killed that there is no chance of convincing him otherwise - what happens next? Any ideas
  #630  
Old 12-21-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaan
What do you think he will do next? He is so convinced that diana and dodi were killed that there is no chance of convincing him otherwise - what happens next? Any ideas
IMHO he will spend money getting nowhere... He will continue to try to embarrass the RF thus endangering his position in Britain and maybe someday we'll hear that he went back to Egypt. For whatever reasons. But he won't stop to claim that Diana and Dodi were murdered. I'm only curious if he will go on finding a forum for his thoughts. After all, the photographers who were specialist in producing ugly pics of Camilla ran out of business after the media decided they did not want them anymore...

And if you check this report you'll see there is nothing of any substance that the media can honestly report about a conspiracy. The investigation seems to have been thorough, it addressed all claims, interviewed whatever witness they could find and came to conclusions that sound absolutely plausible to me. So I honestly don't see where the newsworthiness of any of the old claims should be. And if he really can prove that anything in the report was a cover-up, then he should have his say and then it must be reported. But only then. IMHO.
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  #631  
Old 12-21-2006, 03:23 PM
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trevor reese does say he was told he was not wearing a seatbelt, and that he was glad of it because it meant he was doing his job. they don't wear them so they can move around. so that is ONE true fact in the report, but he also says he didn't smell liquer on hendy paul did not appear to be drunk and appeared to be just as he was that morning, so he only says he's shocked by the findings of the french report.

i don't believe the report, don't believe he was drunk, and think it's crap, but since a lot of snub noses think it's vital to read, i'm reading it. i didn't prove they weren't wearing seat belts with my research, but as far as i'm concerned i found something better by reading trevor reese's statement saying henri paul didn't appear to be drunk.

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSC...21/lkl.00.html

the report in the first 10 pages (i'll have to download it again because is deleted it when i thought it was the 2004 report) says they did not find the white fiat and i think they also said they did not find the white fiat driver also. so the guy that was found burned to death in his car who owned the white fiat who was the photographer who normally stalked diana who was reportedly in the area at the time of the accident and was expected to be in the area, was not considered found to be the white fiat driver or was not the car used in this incident.

praise the french! what great findings and congratulations to britain who followed up to be even dumber on this finding! hallalujah! if i could only be as dumb as they think the public is, but i guess some are because of all the attacks of the anti murder theories, not conspiracy, murder is still murder regardless of what name you try to shun in under.

so no i have 2 false statements in the report that cannot be ignored in a investigation of false reports. this makes 2 mistatements of investigated incidents that were left out of the investigation all within the first 10 pages.

so now i'll suffer and download it again and read 10 or 20 more and report each finding i get that can't be true.
  #632  
Old 12-21-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
A lot of it - the sentences marked with IMHO are my own interpretations of the findings in the report. You can find the basic information from which I formed my opinion in the chapter about the ring and the question if Diana selected it herself and if it was an engagement ring (chapter one). The report says IMHO while Diana may have looked into a window of the jeweler in Monte Carlo and liked one, she did not select a ring herself. But the fact that she talked with Burrell about a forthcoming gift of a ring showed me that she realized that Dodi would give her one. Then she talked to friends about not wanting to get married.

The staff of the Ritz tell that Dodi was looking for a ring he could not describe but knew where it had been placed in the shop window in Monte Carlo and they were ordered to search for it. The info about the sizing of the ring etc. by the jeweler is IMHO rubbish - no ring really was selected and it wasn't sized for Diana. Ritz-staff tells that Mohammed al-Fayed wanted information and prices on all the rings his son had selected - taking such a vivid interest in the selection of a ring (while Dodi seems to have looked for a gift, not necessarily a ring) told me that it was Mohammed who was really interested in a symbol for a closer relationship, not Dodi and it was him who decided on how much money there is to spend. Eg Claude Roulet recalling on page 40/41 that after Dodi had told him to look for the ring, he phoned Mohammed and got his orders from Mohammed to do what Dodi wanted.

A lot of the things reported about the situation at the Ritz before they took off for their last ride, especially the orders the security team seem to have gotten, show IMHO the enormous influence of Mohammed al-Fayed and that Dodi was so fed up with the situation that he overruled his father's orders. (in chapter thirteen). Diana's friend Lucia Flecha de Lima tells from the last video of Diana at the Ritz that the princess herself was unhappy and appeared stressed.

All these statements gave me the above mentioned ideas. You can find the statements in the report in chapters one and thirteen. Hope this helps.
Thanks Jo. I've read the chapter about the ring - it looked like al-Fayed told the jeweler to tell one story at the begining but then he changed it later. I haven't gotten to chapter 13 though.

My impresssion was that Dodi was the type of guy whose ego would have been stroked by dating someone like Diana and several reports that I read indicated that he enjoyed the publicity whereas Diana didn't. So I didn't get the idea that he was necessarily co-erced into dating Diana. That may change though when I read Chapter 13.
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  #633  
Old 12-21-2006, 03:57 PM
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here's the link to the white fiat death story.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin....cgi?read=5727

what i really don't understand is since princess diana made so much revenue for england, why someone would complain about the price of the investigation for her murder and why complete the investigation when they really weren't done yet since they had information about the white fiat driver and witnesses proof of henri paul not being drunk?

and the accident itself may not every be proven because they refuse to let it, but the actions afterwards were what actually killed her and why aren't they investigating that and recreating how long it would normally take to rescue someone? THEY SHOULD HAVE RECREATED THE RESCUE.

i'm going to ask some local people who does that kind of work in my area how long it takes them in accidents to get them out of the vehicle and to the hospital. they have a lot of spindly roads and hollows plus it is a rural area with lots of trees to run into, which is very common and has even killed many drivers, so it is very dangerous driving in this area. they also have something called "the jaws of life" which they use to remove people who have been in accidents if they can't get into the car. my cousin was taken to nashville tn, u.s.a. via helicoptor after they removed him from his vehicle and took him where he could get adiquate (forgot how to spell it) medical help. he was lucky to be alive with head injuries and all. he lived but lost a few teeth.

so i know there is better options because they have saved lives more than they have lost and they are very far away from the correct medical facilities needed for emergency operations. this accident was in a city not far from a hospital, so that is part of my main reason i think they did not do their job.
  #634  
Old 12-21-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
trevor reese does say he was told he was not wearing a seatbelt, and that he was glad of it because it meant he was doing his job. they don't wear them so they can move around. so that is ONE true fact in the report, ...i found something better by reading trevor reese's statement saying henri paul didn't appear to be drunk.
Trevor Rees Jones, tried to put his seatbelt on when he realised they might crash. Quite normal behavior IMO, I have done it myself and although you still get a mighty wallop, there is a chance you will survive. Many people on drugs or alcohol appear to be fine, but their reflexes are seriously impaired.

Quote:
i'm going to ask some local people who does that kind of work in my area how long it takes them in accidents to get them out of the vehicle and to the hospital. they have a lot of spindly roads and hollows plus it is a rural area with lots of trees to run into, which is very common
Amazing, they can replicate exactly the roads, traffic conditions, the different approach to seizures etc, etc, etc. Tell them to thoroughly read a real report first, won't you!
  #635  
Old 12-21-2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
i don't believe the report, don't believe he was drunk, and think it's crap, but since a lot of snub noses think it's vital to read, i'm reading it. i didn't prove they weren't wearing seat belts with my research, but as far as i'm concerned i found something better by reading trevor reese's statement saying henri paul didn't appear to be drunk.
There are people who don't appear to be drunk because they are used to. While they can react perfectly normal on doing normal things they cannot control a car in difficult circumstances. That's an established fact - so much that here in Germany, if you are caught by the police and don't appear drunk on driving while a blood test proves that you were, you are punished harder because you are considered to be a "seasoned drunk-driver". So much for that statement. And please, think about it: why should he confess to have had a suspicion that Paul was drunk when that could made him responsible for allowing Paul to drive? I in his position of course would lie! And tell exactly what he told.

Quote:

the report in the first 10 pages (i'll have to download it again because is deleted it when i thought it was the 2004 report) says they did not find the white fiat and i think they also said they did not find the white fiat driver also. so the guy that was found burned to death in his car who owned the white fiat who was the photographer who normally stalked diana who was reportedly in the area at the time of the accident and was expected to be in the area, was not considered found to be the white fiat driver or was not the car used in this incident.
Please read the report. It clearly states that there is no proof at all that James Andason was in Paris apart from his telling so in a situation when he wanted to sell a book idea with him as a witness. All other proof (eg his creditcard statements, the fact that he was in Corsica the next day etc.) show that he couldn't have been there at that time. No one saw him, he doesn't appear on any pictures of that night, the times and places when he used his credit cards show that he was somewhere else. How could anybody have fabricated that without leaving traces?


Quote:
so no i have 2 false statements in the report that cannot be ignored in a investigation of false reports. this makes 2 mistatements of investigated incidents that were left out of the investigation all within the first 10 pages.

so now i'll suffer and download it again and read 10 or 20 more and report each finding i get that can't be true.
As I said, these are not two false statements. But you'll find quite some of these in the report when it comes to people dependant on Al-Fayed and their statements!

As for this poor Andasons's death: I'm convinced as well that this stinks. But I believe that Al-Fayed or a relative from Dodi's mother's side (the arms dealer-connection) is responsible. I can well imagine that these people believed Andanson to have had a hand in Dodi's death and either killed him or told him they would endanger his son (who has been a young race driver then) and this caused him to take his own life. Just my opinion. But it's for me far more believable that Al-Fayed would take action against a person he believed responsible than this person kill himself for no obvious reason. Just think about it!
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  #636  
Old 12-21-2006, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
i'm going to ask some local people who does that kind of work in my area how long it takes them in accidents to get them out of the vehicle and to the hospital.
Maybe you should ask them if using helicopters is an option by night. Here in Europe, it isn't.
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  #637  
Old 12-21-2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
What makes Andanson's precise itinerary the night of the fatal crash so vital is this: He owned and drove a white Fiat Uno. The car was repainted shortly after the Aug. 31, 1997 Alma tunnel crash, and was sold by Andanson in October 1997. And, although the official report of the French authorities investigating the crash concluded that Andanson's car was not involved in the crash, French forensic reports made available to {The Express} told a very different story.
One report in the files of Judge Herve Stephan, the chief investigating magistrate in the Diana-Dodi crash probe, described the tests on Andanson's Fiat: "The comparative analysis of the infrared spectra characterizing the vehicle's original paint, reference Bianco 210, and the trace on the side-view mirror of the Mercedes shows that their absorption bands are identical." In laymen's terms, the paint scratches from the Fiat found on the side-view mirror of the Mercedes were identical to the paint samples taken from the matching spot on Andanson's Fiat.
The report continued: "The comparative analysis between the infrared spectra characterizing the black polymer taken from the vehicle's fender, and the trace taken from the door of the Mercedes, show that their absorption bands are identical." In short, despite the French investigators' endorsement of Andanson's alibi, the forensic tests strongly suggested that his car may have been {the} white Fiat Uno involved in the fatal crash.

this story was written "By Jeffrey Steinberg
Executive Intelligence Review - July 7, 2000 ", so if the release of the article is really from "executive intelligence review", it must have some relevance. that is why i believe it, but i think you make a good point that fayed was very angry with a lot of people and resources to do exactly what you say, which is to kill out of retaliation for the death of his son. he has the means and motives to do just that, but i believe andenson was there.

i don't disagree at all with what you are saying, but the government also lied about a lot things, so you can't trust the report any better than you can trust al fayed.

the level of alcohal in henry paul's system and the drugs used were so high that it would be imossible to stand sober or even walk at all, so that is the reason why i question that he was drunk, plus witnesses who say no alcohol was smelled. you can't hide the smell of alcohol.
  #638  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:01 PM
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Maybe you should ask them if using helicopters is an option by night. Here in Europe, it isn't.
in europe i don't know the law, but in the u.s. it was night time when they took my cousin to nashville from his accident, so they obviosly do fly at night at least in america. if you own a scanner, you hear "life flight" (that is what they are called here) whenever there is a serious accident, but that is here.
  #639  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:06 PM
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blackdaisies,

Have you read the report in full yet.

Please note - it is no point in asking your friends in the US about making the type of rescue used in this case because the French have a different approach to that type of rescue so what would happen in the US wouldn't happen in France anyway.

The French do things differently - got that part.

As for Henri Paul's drinking - remember that the Stephens report tested the blood sample for DNA and proved it was his and he was only two times over the French legal limit - I know people who walk quite steadily up to four times over the limit here (our limit is .05), my own brother included. As he was a regular drinker he could appear sober drinking a lot more than people who only drink occasionally. Who actually smelt his breath to say that he didn't smell of alcohol?

You do give interesting links - tabloids, New World Order sites and not Rumour Mill - don't you ever assess the reliability of the site in question? There very names tells you something about them - rumours are not proven facts - therefore the site is unreliable and you can't take the word of anything on it as fact, regardless of its purported origin - you need to see the report in a reputable site or paper.

In an earlier post you told me not to believe everything I read in the press, but that is certainly more reliable than believing anything on the internet as the press does have national laws which mean that they have to publish at least with a grain of truth whereas on the internet you can publish a complete lie about someone and no-one is held responsible. (I will give you an example that has affected my own family recently - there is a site whose name I have forgotten where the author writes lies about people and on this site he accused my brother and his friend of saying comments about the Rugby League competition at a particular game, except for the fact that my brother and his friend were at a completely different game and could prove it as they were on national radio at the time. Did this person apologise when his error was pointed out - no - he laughed and said tough see what lies I come up with next about you and yours). Don't believe things written on the internet without doing a reliablity assessment of the site first, just as you would with any printed text - ask questions such as, who is the author, what is known about the author, were they friends or enemies of the person/country/party/religion etc they are writing about, when was the site created, when was the site last updated, where is the corroborating evidence, what is the contradictory evidence. Asking these questions will lead you to trust far, far less of the gossip on the internet.
  #640  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdaisies
in europe i don't know the law, but in the u.s. it was night time when they took my cousin to nashville from his accident, so they obviosly do fly at night at least in america. if you own a scanner, you hear "life flight" (that is what they are called here) whenever there is a serious accident, but that is here.
But, in Europe, as Jo pointed out, helicopters at night are not an option. France is in Europe. Paris is in France. The accident happened in Paris. How much clearer can that be?
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