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  #121  
Old 12-07-2005, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by una
After the separation, the palace still controlled the purse strings for staff, holidays etc. She wanted control of her life.
I thought the divorce settlement was one of the largest on record in UK, around 27 million pounds. It was a lump sum settlement, not installment. She could well have paid her own staff if she had inclined to do so. Plus she had her own money from her father's estate.
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  #122  
Old 12-08-2005, 10:56 AM
una una is offline
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Incas-- I was talking about after the separation, not after the divorce.
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  #123  
Old 12-08-2005, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regardez
I was just wondering what some people's reasons for disliking Diana are (including courtiers, HM the Queen, and the general public).

I was fond of her until she said (via Morton) that Charles was bad father. I can understand her vindictivness towards him as a husband but I can't forgive her that "bad daddy" bit. It was not only hurtful for Charles but for her sons as well. How bad was it for them hearing that their mum was telling that their daddy was poor father???? And that was untrue - after that I was wondering what more lies she was capable to tell to gain public approval.
  #124  
Old 12-08-2005, 12:17 PM
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I have said before that this thread isn't for people to start "is not! is so! is not! is SO!!!" arguments about Diana, it's for people who didn't, and those who still don't, like her to explain their reasons why. The world isn't going to come to an end if a person can say "I didn't like her because....." without people piling on to declare "not true! is all Charles's fault!" We're all aware that some people think everything was all Charles's fault, just as some people blame Diana for most of the problems. This thread isn't about yet another battle between Diana supporters and Diana critics. I've already deleted some off-topic posts, and I'll carry on doing so if needed.

Elspeth

British Royals moderator.
  #125  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:00 PM
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I'm back!

Dear Diana Supporters,

I have been contacted to see where I have been. Many have think I have been suspended and that is not the case. My Mom has been ill and I have been away.

I have received desperate emails from people who say they need me to come back and I am here. I am serving notice that I am back to support Diana and will not tolerate the hatred!

Sorry Elspeth, I had to let people know I am here. You don't know what kind of messages I received. Oh Lord!
  #126  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:43 PM
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My dislike (rather annoyance b/c it really wasn't dislike) was she seemed to be a bit of a hypocrite. She made herself out to be a victim (& she was in many ways- she did get the raw end of the deal with some things in life) in the marriage yet she also cheated....people always forget that. She also acted like she got the horrible end of the deal in the divorce-- she lived in a palace, & got millions of pounds in the settlement. Its not like she was kicked out of her home & her husband left her & took the kids or did not support her with no money to pay bills, support the kids, etc. She used the press to her advantage, until they did something she didn't like & then that was it. I think she was too young to get married & she was living her 'youth' (her late teens/early 20s) when she was in her mid-thirties.
I also agree with some of the things Princejohnny said.
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  #127  
Old 12-12-2005, 07:23 PM
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My attitude toward Diana went through three phases.

In the years 1981-1991 I felt not "liking" exactly, but mild interest. I had already been following the royal family for 23 years by the time she came on the scene. I was happy that Prince Charles was going have a family life after all the years of speculation and "match-making" in the press. I didn't have interest in Diana herself, but as the wife of The Prince of Wales and daughter-in-law of The Queen. I formed the impression then of a shallow young woman, too tall and gangly. But there was no dis-like, just dismissal of a kind. (I did think she became more attractive looking as time went by and she became more professional with her make-up and hair-styles.)

1992-1995 were the years that I came most close to dis-like. The absolute low for me was her arrogance in the Squidgy phone conversation saying, "After all I've done for this f***king family". Then ghost-writing the Morton book dropped her in my estimation too. The Panorama interview I found distasteful and appalling. I really felt like reaching into the screen to push her poor-little-me over-made-up face in. I've always felt in the years since that one of the things she was spared by her early death was the embarrassment and regret she would have experienced by watching this program again once she had achieved maturity and balance in her life.

In the last year or so of her life, I gained respect and a kind of liking for Diana. This was due to the things I read about her regret for the book and the interview; the fact (as reported anyway) that she had adjusted to the divorce and had a friendly relationship with The Prince of Wales. She just seemed to have grown up, finally, and had things in more in perspective, and was less self-centered. It would have been interesting to have seen how she would have progressed, had she lived.
  #128  
Old 12-12-2005, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas
I thought the divorce settlement was one of the largest on record in UK, around 27 million pounds. It was a lump sum settlement, not installment. She could well have paid her own staff if she had inclined to do so. Plus she had her own money from her father's estate.
I think it was 27 million dollars, not pounds. It was 17 million pounds, if I remember right.
  #129  
Old 12-12-2005, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think it was 27 million dollars, not pounds. It was 17 million pounds, if I remember right.
Still a most comfortable settlement I think.

"MII"
  #130  
Old 12-12-2005, 08:23 PM
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The more I learn about Diana, the less I understand her. I think her greatest "fault" was thinking she could outsmart others--the Court, the media, etc. She was impetuous--but I'm guilty of the same. All in all, she was very human but the fact she didn't hesitate to share her hurt, anger, etc., did not serve her well in the end. I also think she could have had better choices in friends. There are some who were/are very loyal to this day like Lucia Flecha de Lima, Lana Marks, The Duchess of Kent,....but then there are a host of others who really took advantage of her. I think they could aptly be described as "hangers on," who immediately started writing books, selling mementoes and letters and videos which one would imagine she'd have preferred to keep private. There are times when I think it would have been fun to be her friend but I don't think I coud cope with the on-again, off-again, you must be on call for me day and night she demanded. But I still find her fascinating.
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  #131  
Old 12-12-2005, 08:26 PM
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I agree Diana had it rough but at least she was n't stuck with no money, two kids, no job, a husband who beat her up and no way out. Think we should keep it in perspective. I know she suffered emotionally but she was emotionally wrecked before the marriage and it could have been so much worse, like I said, the scenario I just described is one that millions of women around the world have to live with every day - No divorce settlements or palace apartments for them - Sympathy where it is due please.

Diana was a lovely girl and she did do a huge amount of work to raise awareness especially about HIV and AIDS when it first came out. By putting herself behind the anti landmine campaign, she did a great thing.

She didn't behave very well at times I agree but she could always claim provocation as her defence!!!

However, she never knew what it was like to be cold, hungry, homeless or beaten except by proxy. Incredibly privileged lady before and after marriage, I know it was tough for her sometimes but she had the option of getting out whenever she wanted unlike lots of women who have no choices!!!!
  #132  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think it was 27 million dollars, not pounds. It was 17 million pounds, if I remember right.
It was $26 million (U.S.) and Diana had her own fortune of about $10 million on top of that.

She was always wealthy.
  #133  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
It was $26 million (U.S.) and Diana had her own fortune of about $10 million on top of that.

She was always wealthy.
She also had the options of lots of therapy and the very best medical care to help with any emotional problems plus the money to pay for it.

I think in a lot of ways she was immature and she wanted someone to make everything better for her (like I wish someone wouldn't take care of all my needs and problems!!!!!:o )

People survive trauma, real trauma everyday, look at those poor people in the tsunami, Pakistan earthquake and everyday dangerous life for the poor people in Iraq!!! They don't have lots of money to 'get over it', they just have to get on with it. They are the real heroes, not spoilt upper class women.

I did feel sorry for Diana but not too much
  #134  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizz70
She also had the options of lots of therapy and the very best medical care to help with any emotional problems plus the money to pay for it.

People survive trauma, real trauma everyday, look at those poor people in the tsunami, Pakistan earthquake and everyday dangerous life for the poor people in Iraq!!!
Money can't buy you happiness or peace of mind.
A hurt soul, a broken heart or an unbalanced mind cannot be fixed like a car. We are talking about human.
Psychotherapy is rarely successful, and when it is, it's the result of years of work, 10 years or more and often with the help of psychiatry.
Beside, it may be easier to go through a tsunami if you have love and support around you and if you are a strong and balanced human being as a result of a happy childhood, for example, that go through a miserable life in a palace with millions in your bank account.


Edited the patronising bits. Sorry about that...
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  #135  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:34 AM
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But Diana did have love and support but she pushed them away too. She had so many estranged relationships with her friends during the seperation. She was not on good terms with her mother, Elton John and many other friends. That is the self destructive nature that some people talk about. I think she thought she could do everything herslef and do it right. Once the Queen ordered the Divorce and the press turned on her I think that shocked her back to reality and destroyed the superwomen ideal she had.
  #136  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
That's typically a senseless statement originated in the belief that money can buy you happiness or peace of mind.
A hurt soul, a broken heart or an unbalanced mind cannot be fixed like a car. We are talking about human.
Contrary to popular belief, a psychotherapy is rarely successful, and when it is, it's the result of years of work, 10 years or more and often with the help of psychiatry. Your statement that basically she had money to pay for a shrink so she should not get any sympathy is incredible.
Beside, I also go against your hierarchisation of pain. It may be easier to go through a tsunami if you have love and support around you and if you are a strong and balanced human being as a result of a happy childhood, for example, that go through a miserable life in a palace with millions in your bank account.
Idriel, I am not suggesting that psychotherapy is a cure all - i should know my mom is a therapist!!!

What I was trying to say is that there are people in this world who also have terrible emotional problems which are compounded by other things, war, poverty and there is no escape for them - not even a hope of escape.

Diana at least she had some chances to do something about her situation. FYI, I met Diana on a few occasions and thought she was charming.

I think if anyone is making frivolous comments then it must be that to see your whole family washed away to their deaths when you are 5 years old, or to see you entire family killed by bombs and be left with devastating injuries - that is real problems!

Everyone is different and everyone reacts differently - one operson may get some bad news and shrug it off, another may go and committ suicide. My point was the she had the resources available for help when a lot of people don't. She could also be very cruel herself, as many people can testify, with spiteful words etc. She was human like we all are, not a saint.
  #137  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
But Diana did have love and support but she pushed them away too. She had so many estranged relationships with her friends during the separation. She was not on good terms with her mother, Elton John and many other friends.
That is very true Princejonnhy, but I would question the quality of these friends. With exceptions, she surrounded herself with sycophants and jet-set types who were not good for her. The good ones, real ones, those who turn out to be loyal to her after her death, like Rosa, she kept till the end.
Lizz70, my points remain the same:
1. It's not because she had access to help that it would have made her better. Psychotherapy is not a hugely effective tool, so I don't think she was more advanced that those who can't afford that.
2. Pain is pain. Whether it is due to war, poverty, family scares, miserable choices of life, etc.
Where we agree is that she was most definitely not a saint, hence this great thread :).
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  #138  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:53 AM
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I ask the Moderators this.. What good ever really comes from such threads? Well, it seems a constant repetition of regurgitated prejudices and nothing more. No one here can claim that they know more about it than someone else because the reality is we dont. We only know what we read and see on TV and going by that alone, I think its pretty evident that our knowledge is most questionable at the best of times, especially since most books & TV programmes are commissioned by, or a given authorisation by the royal courts themselves.

Hey... I have an idea! Why dont we start up a 'Reasons for Disliking Camilla thread'...I am sure enough rubbish and utter nonsense can be accumulated to try and destroy the womans reuptation although no one really has a clue as to what she's like, who she is or what she's been through. The same goes for the late Princess of Wales.

One would like to think that a woman who died under such tragic circumstances could at least be given enough dignity and respect to rest in peace without having her name disputed and displayed in such a vile manner. I guess thats asking quite alot considering that many who contribute to discussions here are academics and as such should know better. You would think that after years of study they would have been given more than enough time to leave those "I don't like her" or "I dont like him" days far behind...

Then again, with the world we live in nowadays I guess the answers plain to see really.

Well, have a good morning, midday, afternoon, evening & night everyone.

"MII"
  #139  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:53 AM
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Diana

I did not like her when she was alive because she uses the medias against the Queen and the royal family, she forgot that her son was going to be king of England and that talking such a things about the family she was working against the future of her son.

Now I like her, I think that she was used by the family and in special by prince Charles, she was a 20 years old kid when they got married, he was a man on its thirties, he has a lover....Camilla.

She was inmature on her reactions but now I understand her.

When I see ( please, with all respect ) the actual crown princess of Europe, trying to be icons of fashion, elegance and class I missed Diana. There is a world of difference between her and Letizia, Mary, Mette-Marit and Maxima.
  #140  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
Hey... I have an idea! Why dont we start up a 'Reasons for Disliking Camilla thread'...I am sure enough rubbish and utter nonsense can be accumulated to try and destroy the womans reuptation although no one really has a clue as to what she's like, who she is or what she's been through. The same goes for the late Princess of Wales.
Hi MII!
I actually like this thread. So far it has been a healthy conversation and people make interesting points.
I believe we already have dozen 'Reasons for Disliking Camilla' threads as her perceived or real wrongs are brought up all the time as soon as she is mentioned somewhere (by me among others, I have to admit).
Still, the huge difference between those two women is that if we know little about Camilla because she never spoke up and her friends are rather discreet, Diana did tell her side(s) of her story through various media all through her life.
We have material to discuss upon.
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