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  #121  
Old 05-29-2016, 05:20 PM
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Raine had difficult step children, let's not pretend that Raine was the evil step mother. I have never heard of Raine doing anything bad to the Spencer children; she did abandon her own kids but nothing about Raine has warranted the treatment she received especially from Diana and her brother.
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  #122  
Old 05-29-2016, 05:21 PM
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I don't disagree with you, Xenia, on her having difficult step-children. Raine was a VERY strong character though, in her own right.
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  #123  
Old 05-30-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Raine had difficult step children, let's not pretend that Raine was the evil step mother. I have never heard of Raine doing anything bad to the Spencer children; she did abandon her own kids but nothing about Raine has warranted the treatment she received especially from Diana and her brother.
I dont say she was evil but I dont think she was very nice either. Frances SK has been criticised for leaving her kids, and Raine left hers...
I've not heard of many people who liked Raine much, even if the Spencer children took their anger too far. She seems arrogant pushy, selfish, snobby, full of herself. And I can understand that Diana who I think never got over her mother leaving, was bitterly unhappy that her father (who had then left the kids to nannies) was then marrying a woman that none of them liked. I do admit that Di seems to have had times when perhaps she felt more freiendly towards her stepmother.. whether that was guilt at her own previous unkind behaviour, or perhaps that it suited her to have Raine as an ally.. I dont know.
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  #124  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:28 PM
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Did Raine had her Harrods job through Diana ?
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  #125  
Old 05-31-2016, 04:46 PM
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Mohamed Al Fayed was a friend of Diana's father. That was the original connection and why Diana didn't feel uncomfortable vacationing with his family.
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  #126  
Old 05-31-2016, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Diana didn't have the example of a stable, loving home life to follow.
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that she missed her mother, and when Frances had gone, tried ot look after her father and followed him about, but he kept himself locked away a lot.
Diana's mother did not abandon her.
Her mother moved to London and took the Diana & Charles with her.
At Christmas time Diana & Charles went to live with their father and were enrolled in school in Norfolk.
It was joint custody not abandonment. The joint custody continued after the divorce. She saw more of her mother than her father. This is according to her step sister.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Had Johnny married a warm, soft, loving woman, things might have been different between them. Raine might have been right for Johnny, who was attracted to strong-willed women, but she seems to have been a difficult step-mother.
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
And then he chose a vulgar arrogant woman for his new wife, who Im sure would not have been particularly affectionate to Diana, (Unless it suited her)...So she didn't have a warm female presence, apart from nannies who came and went. I think that the relationship with Raine was always stormy though she did get togethter with her later on.
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I dont say she was evil but I dont think she was very nice either. Frances SK has been criticised for leaving her kids, and Raine left hers...
I've not heard of many people who liked Raine much, even if the Spencer children took their anger too far. She seems arrogant pushy, selfish, snobby, full of herself.
And I can understand that Diana who I think never got over her mother leaving, was bitterly unhappy that her father (who had then left the kids to nannies) was then marrying a woman that none of them liked. I do admit that Di seems to have had times when perhaps she felt more freiendly towards her stepmother.. whether that was guilt at her own previous unkind behaviour, or perhaps that it suited her to have Raine as an ally.. I dont know.
This perspective is very one sided in favor of the Spencers who were adults and teens when their father remarried. They never gave Raine a chance. The words used to describe Raine should be applied and are better suited to describe Diana, Jane, Charles Spencer and Sarah.

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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Raine had difficult step children, let's not pretend that Raine was the evil step mother. I have never heard of Raine doing anything bad to the Spencer children; she did abandon her own kids but nothing about Raine has warranted the treatment she received especially from Diana and her brother.
The Spencers stepchildren were ungrateful. If it was not for Raine, John Spencer would have died in 1978. The woman married a sickly man and took care of him. She placed the welfare of her new husband and his ungrateful children above her own children.
I believe Raine later had joint custody of her children.

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Admittedly, he was the third party in Raine's divorce but he was single then. She was the adulterer not him.
Interesting view. Adultery is usually defined if either or both party is married.
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  #127  
Old 06-05-2016, 05:29 AM
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Adultery | Define Adultery at Dictionary.com
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  #128  
Old 06-16-2016, 05:44 PM
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I think that Raine saw Johnny as a bigger fish than her then husband. She was involved in local politics as a councillor and she got into the newspapers. however Johnny Spencer was a man lost after his wife's leaving him and clearly willing to let her do what she liked.. so I think she latched onto him, and saw herself as chatelaine of a big famous country house etc.
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  #129  
Old 06-16-2016, 06:53 PM
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Yes, Denville, I think that's true. Raine's mother, Barbara, was a very flamboyant, larger than life character, and I think she probably trained her daughter to approach life the same way. Raine didn't have her mother's talent (if talent it was) but she had a certain confidence and charm that would appeal to men who enjoy being organised and managed.

I'm not sure that coming into a man's ancestral home as his quite new second wife and selling items that had been there for centuries and ordering bright gilding in every state room is the right way to go about things, though! It certainly didn't impress her step-children!
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  #130  
Old 06-16-2016, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I'm not sure that coming into a man's ancestral home as his quite new second wife and selling items that had been there for centuries and ordering bright gilding in every state room is the right way to go about things, though! It certainly didn't impress her step-children!
Raine married John in 1976, the selling was in 1991
John Spencer approved of the sales.
In 1991, he specifically made of point of naming Diana as not understanding about money when the sale of items became public.

Diana never had a real job. She would only work a few months, usually a few days a week, before quitting and going on vacation for a few months.
If she had paid her own way rather than expect her mother to pay for her flat and her father to foot the bills she would have appreciated what Raine was doing.

In 1997, Diana claimed she could not afford to remove the Laura Ashley wall covering even with a very large divorce settlement and with Charles still paying for all her household expenses.

This is probably when Diana finally appreciated and realized what Raine had been trying to do.
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  #131  
Old 06-16-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, Denville, I think that's true. Raine's mother, Barbara, was a very flamboyant, larger than life character, and I think she probably trained her daughter to approach life the same way. Raine
I'm not sure that coming into a man's ancestral home as his quite new second wife and selling items that had been there for centuries and ordering bright gilding in every state room is the right way to go about things, though! It certainly didn't impress her step-children!
No. I know that those houses do cost a mint of money to maintain, but still, i think it is as much the arrogant way she did it, as the fact that she did it...that annoyed them. If she'd been polite and low key and tried to explain to them that it was necessary to make money, they might have taken it better... And had she tried to be nicer and win their affection rather than getting intot a fairly blatant affair with him and then marrying him...and I think that she DID latch on to J SPencer. Perhaps her husband was not so easily dominated or he did not have a big glamorous historical house for her to reorganise.
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  #132  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:55 PM
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Yikes! Does anyone have a link to substantiate any of these nasty accusations against Raine? It seems to me that time is being used as a sliding scale to "condense" time so these stories "fit".
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  #133  
Old 06-17-2016, 12:43 AM
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Raine married Earl Spencer two months after her divorce from the Earl of Dartmouth was finalised, in 1976. That's a matter of public record. It was known in London Society that she had met Johnny Spencer while on a committee they had both sat on in London in 1971 which resulted in a book of historic buildings for the Greater London Council, (Sally Bedell Smith's biography of Diana, page 58) and they had fallen in love.

Raine left her husband in 1974. Johnny was named co-respondent in the divorce (again a matter of public record) and the Earl was given custody of their four children.

The difficulties between Raine and her stepchildren have featured in every biography of Diana I have ever read, and Raine herself has talked about the refurbishing and gilding of Althorp, (which her stepchildren were appalled by.)
Charles Spencer has been quoted as saying of the new furniture she brought in that it had 'the wedding-cake vulgarity of a five star hotel in Monaco.'
('Althorp: The Story of An English House.' Charles Spencer.)
http://www.theguardian.com/theobserv...tures.review27

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain...untess_Spencer
(The paragraph in wiki referring to the sale of the Althorp art treasures and the refurbishment by Raine is taken from Hugo Vickers on Spencer (Edward) John in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography May 2009)
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  #134  
Old 06-17-2016, 03:03 AM
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What's nasty about it? She is an arrogant woman, she left her husband for Johnny Spencer and her husband was awarded custody. that was n the 70s when I would say it was more usual for a mother to get custody even if she were the unfaithful party.. so taht suggests she wasn't overly concerned about leaving her children. Many people seem to dislike her in society, she was seen as pushy and arrogant and with a talent for self publicity, like her mothers. As C has said her difficulties with her step children are well known, and while the fault was probably on both sides it seems a bit telling that all 4 of them disliked her, at least 3 of them vehemently. Im not sure when she took control of Althorp but her alterations were seen by many including the Spencer children to be vulgar and she was seen as selling off family treasures for money.
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