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  #101  
Old 06-01-2015, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.

Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.
Yeah I just read this and the children's names, I believe the last 2 are younger than Diana. I have never heard of this, I assumed Raine had no children. What was the relationship like between the step siblings? I don't believe this is off topic. In reading about Diana I only ever hear about how cruel the step chikdren were to Raine or how Raine was the big bad wolf but never anything about her first 4 children and their relationship with the Spencers and Johnny as a step father.
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  #102  
Old 06-01-2015, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
Raine was such a disaster, the whole divorce was such a terrible scar on the family especially for Diana and her younger brother. That any of the children ever spoke to her, after her truly taking over their father and the estate and selling so many of the treasures, is a miracle.
Of course, people love to blame the women, but it was john spencer who allowed his new wife so much power.
Raine was not a disaster. She met John Spencer in 1973, married him in 1976. John and Raine did not redecorate until 1990/1991.
Eighteen years after they met and fifteen years after they married.

The Spencer divorce was not the fault of Raine.

The 'children' were adults. Their behavior was unforgivable.

Raine is said to have lost custody of her two younger children because of her relationship with John Spencer.

It is interesting that people were not aware that Raine had children but think the 'Spencer children were scarred from the divorce'. No concern for the Legge children or the Shand-Kydd children.

John Spencer on what he thought of his children from the article Ospi linked.

Quote:
"I have told my friends that all children are ungrateful," he said. "They just don't seem to understand the responsibilities of this place. It costs a lot of money to run. My father left me this estate, and I decided to sell some things to help pay our way."
He specifically points out Diana.

Quote:
"Diana doesn't understand about money," Earl Spencer added. "She's had no experience of money.....I love my children, but they have gone a bit haywire."
It is a wonder Raine ever spoke to the Spencer 'children'.

The mistreatment of Raine by Diana and her brother began long before items were sold by John Spencer.
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  #103  
Old 06-01-2015, 05:30 AM
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Didn't raine paint some of the beautiful old woodwork with gold paint ? I'm sure I remember reading that


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  #104  
Old 06-01-2015, 05:43 AM
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Acid Raine [despite her fearsome reputation], was clearly not a woman who wanted to be without the protection of a [titled] man, in this World...
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  #105  
Old 06-01-2015, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Acid Raine [despite her fearsome reputation], was clearly not a woman who wanted to be without the protection of a [titled] man, in this World...
I have to admit I thought the same thing but from what I've seen, Raine and Johnnie did have a good, loving relationship.
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  #106  
Old 06-01-2015, 01:19 PM
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One of the 'serious' biographies of Diana that I read said that what Raine did was to bring the furniture back to the period when Althorp House was built, which included the bright colours of the furniture.

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Didn't raine paint some of the beautiful old woodwork with gold paint ? I'm sure I remember reading that


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Yes, and that must have really bothered those who were against her.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I have to admit I thought the same thing but from what I've seen, Raine and Johnnie did have a good, loving relationship.
This is true. I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.

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It is interesting that people were not aware that Raine had children but think the 'Spencer children were scarred from the divorce'. No concern for the Legge children or the Shand-Kydd children.
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  #107  
Old 06-01-2015, 06:51 PM
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I remember quite well that Raine had 4 children so her youngest were 8 and 13 at the time of her second marriage, Diana was 15 and her younger brother around 12. That was a lot of underage children.


Raine was a very flamboyant character, her third marriage I remember well also because she remarried pretty quickly to a French count she barely knew, and didn't stay married for long.
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  #108  
Old 06-01-2015, 09:31 PM
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Raine took after her mother, Barbara Cartland, in personality, I've always thought. Barbara herself was divorced, at a time when that was very unusual. I can remember the Press making a bit of a fuss at the time of Diana's wedding because Raine's mother wasn't on the guest list.
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  #109  
Old 06-01-2015, 09:35 PM
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Google says Barbara was divorced as well.
It is ironic that Francis is called a bolter but Raine isnt. At least with Francis she didn't bolt, her children were taken from her. I assume Raines first husband wasn't too keen to let her keep the younger ones, the same with Johnny.
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  #110  
Old 06-01-2015, 10:14 PM
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This is true. I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.
Probably because the only reason this is being discussed at all is because it was once of the Spencer children who married the heir to the throne. So, of course, there's going to be a lot more focus on them. Personally, I don't see anything wrong in considering the Spencer children to be victims - I feel sad for any children who were negatively affected by divorce. True, the Legge and Shand-Kydd children aren't mentioned as often, as most people don't know much about them. I don't think that means that people don't sympathize with them less, in the general sense. It's a complex situation with a lot of parties involved.
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  #111  
Old 06-02-2015, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.
If you recall, can you share what William Legge said in the interview/s.

Thanks
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  #112  
Old 06-03-2015, 04:39 PM
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It's political stuff mainly. I haven't heard him discuss his family or the Spencers. It's not appropriate here. If you want to see his appearances, he's searchable on YouTube under William Legge or Earl of Dartmouth.
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  #113  
Old 05-27-2016, 06:42 PM
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Not surprising. He is a pretty well-established politician. He is a member of the European parliament. His sister Charlotte is married to the Duke of Caraci. And Rupert, his brother's heir, seems to have published a few novels.
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  #114  
Old 05-27-2016, 07:38 PM
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What adulteries did Johnny, 8th Earl Spencer participate in that caused the breakdown of his first marriage? As far as I've read he was absolutely crushed by his wife Frances's actions with Peter Shand Kydd. Admittedly, he was the third party in Raine's divorce but he was single then. She was the adulterer not him.
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  #115  
Old 05-27-2016, 07:58 PM
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I don't remember hearing about John Spencer having an affair during his marriage to Frances. Maybe it is just not well publicized. The break down of their marriage was always chalked up to her affair with Shand-Kydd which led to him kicking her out and suing for custody of their kids. He was of course involved with Raine for 2 years prior to her divorce, but he was single.
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  #116  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:07 PM
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I've never heard of his having any affairs. He had an affair with Raine who was married, and the kids hated her.. but it was their mother's affair (or rather her falling in love with Peter Shand Kydd) that broke up the marriage.
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  #117  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:24 PM
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I'd never read of any affairs on Earl Spencer's part either.
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  #118  
Old 05-27-2016, 11:07 PM
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I read that Diana and her stepmother made peace in recent years of the life of Diana. But they have had a complicated relationship.
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  #119  
Old 05-28-2016, 04:11 AM
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I'd never read of any affairs on Earl Spencer's part either.
No, but Raine was married when he started his relationship with her. I think that Diana was very unlucky really.. I think that she missed her mother, and when Frances had gone, tried ot look after her father and followed him about, but he kept himself locked away a lot. And then he chose a vulgar arrogant woman for his new wife, who Im sure would not have been particularly affectionate to Diana, (Unless it suited her)...So she didn't have a warm female presence, apart from nannies who came and went. I think that the relationship with Raine was always stormy though she did get togethter with her later on.. I am not sure if perhaps then, she was realising that a lot of people of her class were down on her becauase of her differences with the RF, and she sought allies.
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  #120  
Old 05-29-2016, 05:14 PM
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Right re Johnny and Raine. Diana didn't have the example of a stable, loving home life to follow. Had Johnny married a warm, soft, loving woman, things might have been different between them. Raine might have been right for Johnny, who was attracted to strong-willed women, but she seems to have been a difficult step-mother.
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