Last Hours, Death, Transfer from France, Funeral and Interment

[Pranter]

I still have never understood the delay in taking her directly to the hospital ...they do things differently in France though.


LaRae

 

[Iluvbertie]

She kept on going into cardiac arrest and the French protocol is to stop and resuscitate rather than continue and deliver a dead body to the hospital. French ambulances were set up to do that even back then, which many other ambulances in the world weren't. Different country = different protocols.

In Australia they would also have stopped when someone went into cardiac arrest to resuscitate rather than have a DOA. My mother was rushed to hospital in 2003 in this situation and went into cardiac arrest in the ambulance so they stopped for nearly 20 minutes on the side of the road - result - Mum arrived alive at the hospital, the specialist also had arrived by the time she did and she survived and went onto to live for nearly another 3 years (she was already in her mid-70s) before dying of emphaceama.

 

[Pranter]

Right I know the senario...and that countries do things differently.

I've had a family member with a ruptured aorta ...if the ambulance had stopped to try and resuscitate he would of been dead. It's just odd to me that they stop when they have no way of knowing what type of internal injuries they are dealing with...instead of continuing to the hospital while at the same time trying to stabilize or resuscitate which is what I'm familiar with.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

With cardiac problems here, the name of the game is "scoop and run". A lot of times where I am at, the EMS team that arrives on the scene does not had a paramedic on board and EMTs are not qualified to administer the care or medication that a paramedic can. With a paramedic on scene, there is the choice to "stay and play" meaning do what they can to stabilize the patient before transport. Regardless, all ambulances are equipped with an AED and all emergency personnel are trained in its use.

Each case is different and handled according to procedure. Diana's internal problems were beyond what a EMS squad here would be prepared to handle and most likely would have never stopped.

 

[Denville]

They could not have done CPR if the ambulance was Moving.. and she was in cardiac arrest. If they hadn't tried to stabilise her I gaher she would probably have died in the ambulance.

 

[Osipi]

CPR can be and is done while an ambulance is moving. There are many occasions here where our EMTs and paramedics have performed continuous CPR en route to the hospital. I know this from experience.

Diana's injuries were beyond what CPR and emergency personnel could do to stabilize her. Her heart was actually had a tear the width of a man's fist in her superior pulmonary vein where it entered the heart.

 

[Dman]

Must've been a frightening moment. She slightly aware what happened and the firefighter trying to keep her calm and trying to save her.

 

[Pranter]

It must of been awful for her ...and of course for all the rescue folks involved in these emergency situations that they handle daily year round.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

I sincerely believe that it was because of this incident that played a big part in William's decision to want to do SAR work and then fly for EAAA. He, out of all of the family. knows from experience now just what goes into emergency medical situations and from my own viewpoint, I think it takes a lot of courage, guts and dedication to want to go into this field. Perhaps it even helped William to understand more of what happened with that car crash in Paris and the measures that were taken to save her life.

 

[Pranter]

Hmmmm hadn't really thought of that but it makes sense....


LaRae

 

[Dman]

I sincerely believe that it was because of this incident that played a big part in William's decision to want to do SAR work and then fly for EAAA. He, out of all of the family. knows from experience now just what goes into emergency medical situations and from my own viewpoint, I think it takes a lot of courage, guts and dedication to want to go into this field. Perhaps it even helped William to understand more of what happened with that car crash in Paris and the measures that were taken to save her life.

I thought about this too. i think it has helped him cope too.

 

[TLLK]

With cardiac problems here, the name of the game is "scoop and run". A lot of times where I am at, the EMS team that arrives on the scene does not had a paramedic on board and EMTs are not qualified to administer the care or medication that a paramedic can. With a paramedic on scene, there is the choice to "stay and play" meaning do what they can to stabilize the patient before transport. Regardless, all ambulances are equipped with an AED and all emergency personnel are trained in its use.

Each case is different and handled according to procedure. Diana's internal problems were beyond what a EMS squad here would be prepared to handle and most likely would have never stopped.

Very true Osispi. There are pros and cons to both types of emergency service but in the end Diana's injuries were such that she was not going to survive. There was a physician on board the ambulance that came to Diana's aid and IMO he made the correct call to try and stabilize her once he realized she had internal bleeding and then went into cardiac arrest. The specialist surgeon who operated on her later stated that he'd never seen a victim survive such an injury.

 

[Denville]

CPR can be and is done while an ambulance is moving. There are many occasions here where our EMTs and paramedics have performed continuous CPR en route to the hospital. I know this from experience.

Diana's injuries were beyond what CPR and emergency personnel could do to stabilize her. Her heart was actually had a tear the width of a man's fist in her superior pulmonary vein where it entered the heart.

so if that was the case, why not perfrom CPR while moving and get her to hospital as fast as possible.

 

[Osipi]

so if that was the case, why not perfrom CPR while moving and get her to hospital as fast as possible.

I can't answer that question. Standard operating procedures differ from place to place and Diana was in France, not in rural USA where I am. One thing that would make sense though is that the use of the AED (Automated External Defibrillator - the paddles that deliver a shock to the heart to return it to normal rhythm) does not give a good reading when a vehicle is in motion. They may have had to pull over and shock the heart into pumping again. As I've stated each case is different. Its been said that a physician was on scene with Diana and he most likely knew what he was doing.

One thing I'm certain of is that everything humanly possible was done to save Diana's life. The damage though was too extensive to sustain life.

 

[Pranter]

I dunno...I've always wondered if they could of gotten her into surgery quicker (IIRC they spent at least an hour not moving) if she couldn't of been saved.


LaRae

 

[Iluvbertie]

Getting her to hospital sooner probably wouldn't have helped as she would have arrived dead as well as the fact that the specialist who operated wasn't there for nearly an hour afterwards anyway having to come in from his home. So she arrived not long after the specialist.

French ambulances were, back then, anyway almost a mini-hospital and were equipped with a full time doctor on board - not just a paramedic.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

This article is crap with several errors (but this is not the thread for discussing that), except for the Dickie Arbiter part - very interesting:
How Princess Diana's Death Changed Queen Elizabeth II and Britain's Royal Family

Not everyone agrees with the significanec this version of history gives to Diana's death. Dickie Arbiter, a royal commentator who formerly worked in various senior roles in the Palace and was one of two press secretaries on duty when the princess died, says that while the royal family has clearly had to move with the times over its history, “the institution has been evolving for 1,000 years, it constantly adapts and changes and because of Diana’s death it didn’t suddenly switch from being one thing to another.”

Of particular frustration to Arbiter was the drive to bring in outside PR advisors like Lewis, which he saw as a “knee-jerk reaction” to a non-existent problem. “I believe that we got the funeral arrangements absolutely 101 percent right,” he says, and speaks of his frustration in particular with spin doctors from then-Prime Minister Tony Blair’s office, who assisted with the management of Diana’s death and funeral. “They were the Downing Street lot, the new kids on the block, and they thought they knew everything,” he says.

At the first planning meeting for Diana’s funeral, Arbiter recalls, the question was raised as to whether Diana’s coffin would be borne in a hearse or on a gun carriage (in the event, the latter was chosen). “One of those Downing Streets said: ‘you can’t put it on a gun carriage, that’s too militaristic,’” says Arbiter, “until it was pointed out to them that, hang on a minute, she was commander in chief of the London regiments. So she had a military connection.”

Diana's ceremonial funeral was very simple without military contingents - why? Because she wasn't a monarch/consort, so it was desided that her charities was to walk with the princes from Clarence House to Westminster Abbey.

And if Diana’s coffin had been driven in a hearse to the Abbey, her funeral had been a non event when it comes to pomp and pageantry, so Diana fans can thank the palace for her funeral, not Blair and his people.

 

[eya]

People gather outside of Kensington Palace in London today on July 1, to remember Princess Diana on what would have been her 57th birthday.

Belga Image

 

[Osipi]

This article is crap with several errors (this is not the thread for discussing that), except for the Dickie Arbiter part - very interesting:
How Princess Diana's Death Changed Queen Elizabeth II and Britain's Royal Family

Diana's ceremonial funeral was very simple without military contingents - why? Because she wasn't a monarch/consort, so it was desided that her charities was to walk with the princes from Clarence House to Westminster Abbey.

And if Diana’s coffin had been driven in a hearse to the Abbey, her funeral had been a non event when it comes to pomp and pageantry, so Diana fans can thank the palace for her funeral, not Blair and his people.

I've found it a pretty good rule of thumb that if an article's headline contains the words "Princess Diana", then its most likely not going to be too accurate because they didn't even get the headline right. Diana was never Princess Diana in her life.

It had to be the palace's planning committee that set the entire tone for the funeral. If I'm remembering right, they used the Tay Bridge plans that had been drawn up for the Queen Mother's funeral with adaptations such as you've pointed out that Diana's charities and their representatives walked behind the princes and Earl Spencer.

Thinking back on this, it must have been something for the Queen Mother to witness. Her own funeral plans in action.

 

[Denville]

oh good heavens, its just shorthand. Diana princess of wales is a rather long line for a headline..

 

[wyevale]

The 'princess' is superfluous .. say Diana and EVERYONE knows who you mean !

 

[Denville]

There are other dianas, if you want to attract people to read something, its likely to be headline "princess Diana" (or Lady Diana)....

 

[TLLK]

so if that was the case, why not perfrom CPR while moving and get her to hospital as fast as possible.

The concern was that with the internal bleeding that any jostling of the patient could increase the blood loss.Her blood pressure continued to hover at a very dangerous level. Even with the slow rate of speed, Diana went into cardiac arrest a second time en route to the hospital. Had they moved any faster, there was a greater likelihood that she'd bleed out in the ambulance.

 

[Denville]

I thought that they didn't realise she had internal bleeding. However Im quite prepared to believe that she had good care, and that they had to stop to do whatever was necessary to stop her from dying of heart failure in the ambulance. I don't generaly subscribe to conspiracy theories...

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I've read in some medical journal in the days and weeks immediately following the tragedy that directly massaging the heart, as was reportedly done by rescuers who responded to the accident and by ambulance personnel on the way to hospital might have actually made things worse. The tear in the pulmonary artery was bleeding out and cardiac massage would have made it worse.

I really don't see how there was any hope of saving her life unless she had been operated on within minutes of impact which of course was impossible given the circumstances.

There is simply no way at all to diagnose such a severe internal injury like Diana's in the field, none.

 

[LauraS3514]

I've read in some medical journal in the days and weeks immediately following the tragedy that directly massaging the heart, as was reportedly done by rescuers who responded to the accident and by ambulance personnel on the way to hospital might have actually made things worse. The tear in the pulmonary artery was bleeding out and cardiac massage would have made it worse.

I really don't see how there was any hope of saving her life unless she had been operated on within minutes of impact which of course was impossible given the circumstances.

There is simply no way at all to diagnose such a severe internal injury like Diana's in the field, none.

IIRC there was an interview with Diana's mother where Frances said that she was told later by the medical staff that even if the accident had occurred in the hospital parking lot Diana still would have died - the damage was that severe.

 

[TLLK]

I thought that they didn't realise she had internal bleeding. However Im quite prepared to believe that she had good care, and that they had to stop to do whatever was necessary to stop her from dying of heart failure in the ambulance. I don't generaly subscribe to conspiracy theories...

They didn't realize it initially when they were checking the occupants of the car. However once she was removed from the car, her blood pressure plummeted and she went into cardiac arrest. The doctor who accompanied the ambulance crew realized this was likely due to internal bleeding.

 

[Osipi]

IIRC there was an interview with Diana's mother where Frances said that she was told later by the medical staff that even if the accident had occurred in the hospital parking lot Diana still would have died - the damage was that severe.

These kind of situations is what makes emergency service work so stressful. Its a profession that takes quick mental assessment skills and quick action knowing that the outcome is never a guaranteed positive one. Its being put into a situation where even the best of human assistance just isn't enough.

I think with this discussion, we can realize more why William was so dedicated to his work with SAR and EAAA and the importance of being able to work seamlessly as a team when they're called out on a incident. Split second decisions can mean the difference between life and death and it takes a certain mindset to be able to work effectively and quickly to get done what needs to be done and to process what they've seen. These people see things that they really wish no one ever had to see.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Looks like The Infanta Pilar of Spain sitting beside Princess Margriet of the Netherlands near Hillary Clinton in this video from the funeral of Diana.

 

[royal_enthusiast]

Does anyone know why all the royal family attended Diana's funeral? After all, she was divorced from Charles and in a normal scenario you would not expect all your ex-husbands family to attend your funeral.