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  #1101  
Old 06-04-2017, 05:35 PM
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The mounds of flowers were unbelievable, even though they did begin to stink after a while, a quite sickly smell, I remember. I also remember little teddies and other soft toys among them and wondering at the time whether they would be thrown away. I suppose they were. My cousin was among those who threw rose petals at the car carrying her coffin. She had tears in her eyes but a woman next to her was crying so hard her husband had to pull her away...
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  #1102  
Old 06-04-2017, 06:28 PM
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I think Diana's death affected people who didn't necessarily care about the Royal Family or Diana at all. She was young, very attractive and left behind two young sons... and she died in a stupid car accident. It was a tremendous shock and I think many people felt "there but for the grace of God"....
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  #1103  
Old 06-05-2017, 04:41 AM
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It was certainly a tremendous shock. But people also wept on the streets at George VI's funeral, and part of that was that he had died prematurely (of the complications from cancer) in his fifties. He and the queen mother were much admired for their stance during the war. So much of it is part Royal mystique, mixed with veneration and respect for the dead person. Diana was a very admired and loved Princess of Wales and all sorts of feelings were probably involved.
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  #1104  
Old 06-05-2017, 02:19 PM
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I expect we'll see a lot of grief when this Queen passes, too. The only people who would remember George VI's time would be about 70 and older now. It will be a different kind of mourning than there was for Diana, but it still will be intense. I think that I shall be very sad indeed.

Diana was a young, charismatic, beautiful mother of two vulnerable boys when she was taken. People loved her and followed her life for many different reasons. She was an icon of our times, her face peering at us from books and magazines and our t.v. screens. We felt that we knew her personally and that we were saying good-bye to a friend--a puzzling friend in some ways, but a friend.
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  #1105  
Old 06-05-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The mounds of flowers were unbelievable, even though they did begin to stink after a while, a quite sickly smell, I remember. I also remember little teddies and other soft toys among them and wondering at the time whether they would be thrown away. I suppose they were. My cousin was among those who threw rose petals at the car carrying her coffin. She had tears in her eyes but a woman next to her was crying so hard her husband had to pull her away...
the flwwoers were used as compost to grow more flowers and the toys were given to hosptials.
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  #1106  
Old 06-05-2017, 03:54 PM
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Regardless of what the impact of Diana's sudden death was on people, the fact remains that it was an event that permanently stamped itself on the psych of the world at that time.

Whether one is a devoted Diana fan or someone that sees her as a very troubled person, one thing remains very clear here too. Regardless of how we perceive Diana and her life and times, she made such an impact on all of us to the point where we took the time and the effort to know more about her. That continues to this day and all the discussions and threads about Diana prove that.
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  #1107  
Old 06-05-2017, 05:17 PM
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Yes. One doesn't have to be a "fan" to realize that Diana was a phenomenon who will be discussed for awhile yet by her contemporaries and then by historians looking back at her.
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  #1108  
Old 06-05-2017, 06:57 PM
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Regardless of what the impact of Diana's sudden death was on people, the fact remains that it was an event that permanently stamped itself on the psych of the world at that time.

Whether one is a devoted Diana fan or someone that sees her as a very troubled person, one thing remains very clear here too. Regardless of how we perceive Diana and her life and times, she made such an impact on all of us to the point where we took the time and the effort to know more about her. That continues to this day and all the discussions and threads about Diana prove that.
Some devoted fans also see her as a very troubled person. Me, for example. Just because someone is famous/wonderful/engaging/energizing/beautiful/famous/accomplished/successful, it does not mean that they cannot also be seriously troubled.
A bit off topic, but something like 20% of "successful" CEOs and similar leaders also display a psychopathic personality. I've known many highly functioning addicts in my life. In fact, we all struggle, we all succeed, we all stumble and we all persevere. Sometimes we simply cope, sometimes we implode and sometimes we shine. It's the nature of humanity. And also, I think that's the premise behind the work that Wills, Kate and Harry are doing with Mental Illness issues. JMO.
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  #1109  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:09 PM
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the flwwoers were used as compost to grow more flowers and the toys were given to hosptials.
Thanks Denville, I'd forgotten, though I have to say that some of the little toys I saw in the mounds were getting a bit worse for wear by the end!
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  #1110  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:40 PM
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Some devoted fans also see her as a very troubled person. Me, for example. Just because someone is famous/wonderful/engaging/energizing/beautiful/famous/accomplished/successful, it does not mean that they cannot also be seriously troubled.
A bit off topic, but something like 20% of "successful" CEOs and similar leaders also display a psychopathic personality. I've known many highly functioning addicts in my life. In fact, we all struggle, we all succeed, we all stumble and we all persevere. Sometimes we simply cope, sometimes we implode and sometimes we shine. It's the nature of humanity. And also, I think that's the premise behind the work that Wills, Kate and Harry are doing with Mental Illness issues. JMO.
Perhaps. Charles could be equated in the same vein. Diana was troubled. Perhaps, because of a disturbing living situation.
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  #1111  
Old 06-05-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I expect we'll see a lot of grief when this Queen passes, too. The only people who would remember George VI's time would be about 70 and older now. It will be a different kind of mourning than there was for Diana, but it still will be intense. I think that I shall be very sad indeed.
I think there will be a huge amount of grief when this Queen dies and people will know that it's an end of an era. She's iconic. For many people all over the world "The Queen" is synonymous with QEII. I agree the days and weeks after her death will be very intense and I'll be sad to see her go, too. That being said, her death won't be a shock, and it won't be tragic, which is what distinguishes Diana's passing, IMO.

I had no strong feelings either way about Diana when she was alive but she was a uniquely larger than life phenomenon for all of my childhood and adolescence and I remember being stunned when she died.
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  #1112  
Old 06-06-2017, 03:07 PM
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I'm not sure. I think the queen is deservedly quite popular but if she makes it to nearly 100, it will be sad to lose her, but one can't ask for much more than 90 or100 years. Diana's death was tragically young and she was killed in a horrible crash.. it was unexpected and avoidable. so it is very very sad and tragic.

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Perhaps. Charles could be equated in the same vein. Diana was troubled. Perhaps, because of a disturbing living situation.
I don't think so. Diana had real psychological problems, I think they were "set free" by her marriage, because of the massive strain of becoming Royal, being adored by the public but not by her husband, etc. Perhaps if she had had a quiet life, lived in Kensington for another few years, and found a husband who would offer her a comfortable private safe life, she would have been prone to the odd bout of depression, but not more than that. Charles has his gloomy side, but I don't know of him cutting himself, having eating issues or any of Di's issues.
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  #1113  
Old 06-06-2017, 05:35 PM
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Everybody on the planet has psychological issues to some extent. Its all part and parcel of our makeup. From little phobias to neuroses to character defects. Most of us recognize and deal with them and some of them even make us quirky and unique. Its part of being human and Diana was no exception.

A lot of things about Diana would have remained the same no matter where she had gone in life. Situations amplify problems but most times they were there to begin with. As none of us really knew Diana intimately, we can only go by what other people have related that she was like.

Diana's death was a shocking tragedy that hit people between the eyes as they woke up to their morning news. When the Queen passes, I think there will be extreme sadness and the realization that an era has passed but it'll be a more sedate, quiet mourning and a great outpouring of tribute to a woman that has defined the word "Queen" over an extensive lifetime.
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  #1114  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:10 AM
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wel that's my point. I think she had some problems that really needed help from medical or therapeutic personnel, not just the sort of depression that we all get at times or the quirks that we can live with. but I think if she had not had the high stress life, she might not have developed all the things that she had like bulimia, very bad for a time or self harming.
There doesn't seem to be evidence of her having the bulimia prior to her marriage. or the cutting herself. so I think if she's married someone ordinary maybe she might have had bad bout of post natal depression, an needed therapy for it or someitng like thtat, but I am not sure the more extreme forms of problems would have developed.
She was vulnerable, and I think that that's what made people care for her and be touched that in spite of her own problems She DID still try to reach out ot others and show them kindness and affection. I honestly don't see that sort of warmth in the queen, though she's a fine woman, but I don't think her death will bring about such public sadness.
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  #1115  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:07 PM
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In light of a little debate that was going on earlier on the Harry general news thread about Harry's feelings regarding walking behind the cortège (he's said in a very recent interview that he doesn't feel that any child should have been made to do that) I went back to Penny Junor's biography of Harry 'Prince Harry, Brother, Soldier, Son' to see what she wrote about the arrangements for the boys to walk. (I chose Junor as it is said that she has close contacts among Prince Charles's circle, though I have three other biographies of Harry.)

She writes in the relevant chapter 'The Long Walk', that Charles Spencer initially wanted to walk behind the cortège on his own. Prince Charles wished to join him and he felt, according to Junor, that his children 'should be able to walk if they so chose; he felt it might help the grieving process.'

In the meantime Downing St was suggesting a 'People's Funeral' with the public following the cortège. According to Junor Prince Charles and Earl Spencer 'got into a bitter war of words about it' but the matter was pretty well settled when Prince Philip said that he would walk. (There are other sources I've read, not Junor's, that William didn't want to do it, and Prince Philip said the choice was his but he might regret it later if he didn't, and would he do so if he, Philip, joined him?)

Alistair Campbell, Tony Blair's Press Secretary, claimed in his published diaries, 'The Blair Years' that Sandy Henney (Prince Charles's Press Secretary 1993-2000) had been asked by Charles to persuade his sons to walk with him as he was anxious about being attacked by the public.

Sandy Henney utterly repudiated that, according to Junor. She did state that there was indeed concern at BP/St James's about possible public displeasure being shown to the POW. However, Henney said it was William and Harry's decision to walk...'the boys talked about walking with the cortège to close members of their family and only those they trusted' (Sandy herself was up at Balmoral following Diana's death and recalled Harry helping her sort and read the mound of condolence letters received there from the public) 'and no-one they talked to at that time would ever speak to a third party about what the children said'.

Stuart Higgins, the editor of The Sun tabloid in the 1990s, refused to believe it was solely the boys' choice. Sandy Henny is quoted by Junor as having argued vehemently with him about it. She stated

'Right up to the last minute when the boys decided to walk behind the coffin there was a plan that if they couldn't do it -entirely their choice- I would go, take them from the Prince's apartment at St James across to Clarence House and they would go to the funeral with their great-grandmother. It was their choice and it angered me that everyone was saying what the boys should and shouldn't do in relation to their mother's funeral.'

In light of the above, (and Sandy Henney is a discreet woman who knew what was going on in that terrible week,) what are we to make of Harry's recent interview in which he more or less states that he (and presumably his brother as well) was 'made' to walk behind the coffin? Who put pressure, subtle or otherwise, on them and why? Was it the pressure of public and media expectation, the expectations of the BRF at a moment of trauma in national life? Or what?

We may learn more from the two forthcoming documentaries in July/August in which the brothers are to speak about their mother's death and funeral, and I hope some answers are there.
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  #1116  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:14 AM
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I think its unlikely that they were "made to", and I'm surprised at harry saying it. Whatever the truth is, I think if there were rows about it at the time, due to the stress of the situation, he should preserve a discreet silence about them and leave it in the past. ANd I think its outrageous of whoever said that Charles was anxious about being attacked by the public. Charles isn't a physical coward whatever he is..
There were probably intense discussions about what to do and maybe disagreements, and Harry should have remained silent about them.
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  #1117  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:24 AM
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Thank you, Curryong, for that summary.

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In light of the above, (and Sandy Henney is a discreet woman who knew what was going on in that terrible week,) what are we to make of Harry's recent interview in which he more or less states that he (and presumably his brother as well) was 'made' to walk behind the coffin? Who put pressure, subtle or otherwise, on them and why? Was it the pressure of public and media expectation, the expectations of the BRF at a moment of trauma in national life? Or what?
You are floating good points.

Consider Charles indicating that he felt pressured by his father's letter to ask Diana to marry. Many say there was no pressure, but there was a relationship with all the subtleties in play, plus the press at the time...and now we look at this. Who knows what a 12 and 15 year old felt was being asked of them, or how in hindsight they see those events.

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I think its unlikely that they were "made to", and I'm surprised at harry saying it. Whatever the truth is, I think if there were rows about it at the time, due to the stress of the situation, he should preserve a discreet silence about them and leave it in the past. And I think its outrageous of whoever said that Charles was anxious about being attacked by the public. Charles isn't a physical coward whatever he is. There were probably intense discussions about what to do and maybe disagreements, and Harry should have remained silent about them.
Agree 100%. Well said. How will 'talking to the public' about any of this solve anything for Harry?
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  #1118  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:04 AM
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Both William and Harry agreed together to speak in these two documentaries which pay tribute to Diana on the 20th anniversary of her death. Prince William also made reference to his mother and her death in the GQ interview he did recently, I believe. I remember there were discussions here on TRF about what he'd said and whether it seemed to imply some criticism of his father. So they both believe they have something to say about their mother's death and the very public funeral in which they took part. They also believe there's public interest involved or they obviously wouldn't have participated.
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  #1119  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:27 AM
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This may not seem to make a whole lot of sense but is it possible that even now, 20 years after the fact of Diana's death, with Harry first coming out and stating that he repressed memories of his mother and didn't talk about her that everything is flooding back now that the dam has been breached and a lot of what he's remembering now is colored by the confusion of a 12 year old boy confronting an unreal event that turned his world upside down over night?

Perhaps the statement that no young boy of his age should ever be made to walk being his mother's coffin could also express the feeling that no young boy of 12 should ever lose his mother that way and at that age in the first place. We've seen some pretty good examples to the contrary that the boys were not "made" to make this very public walk. Is it possible that that Harry was referring to the event that created the need for the walk in the first place rather than adults pushing the child to do something he'd rather not do?

Just some random thoughts.
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  #1120  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:35 AM
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NO GOOD will come of 'emoting' in public, by either of the Princes.. it was a disaster for their Mother and it is likely to be the same for them
Talk to trusted friends/family/counsellors by ALL means, but 'never apologise, never EXPLAIN' is an infinitely wiser course...
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