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  #1081  
Old 06-02-2017, 03:40 PM
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I'm with Denville on this one. There were a lot of people that scratched their heads and thought that Diana was part and parcel as an accomplice in the Morton book but it wasn't until after her death that it became a widely known fact that she was so involved with the book.
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  #1082  
Old 06-02-2017, 04:50 PM
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I'm with Denville on this one. There were a lot of people that scratched their heads and thought that Diana was part and parcel as an accomplice in the Morton book but it wasn't until after her death that it became a widely known fact that she was so involved with the book.
Yes, it happened during the very dark moments and low points of her marriage.
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  #1083  
Old 06-02-2017, 05:52 PM
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it was pretty obvious that she must have sanctioned her friends talking, but there was no proof, And Diana lied to a few people who had asked, like Clive James, saying that she had had nothing to do with it, had never met Morton..but that when her friends had been criticised for talking, she had to show sympatty for them out of loyalty.
It was terrible of Morton to release her involvement soon after her death.. at a later stage perhaps but she had been in a low and depressed state, had acted foolishly and he could have sold his damn book iwthtout letting her folly and desperation be known...
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  #1084  
Old 06-03-2017, 02:12 PM
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Definitely. According to this article, he met Michael O'Mara, the publisher, the day after Diana's funeral!

Interview: Andrew Morton: He couldn't shout: `Diana was in on this.' `She trusted me. It would have been a betrayal' | The Independent


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It was terrible of Morton to release her involvement soon after her death.. at a later stage perhaps but she had been in a low and depressed state, had acted foolishly and he could have sold his damn book iwthtout letting her folly and desperation be known...
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  #1085  
Old 06-03-2017, 05:11 PM
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Repulisve man. but she was so stupid to trust him. If she had even left it as her friends talking on her behalf... but when he revealed hr as the main source, that stuff had come directly from her lips, he made her seem like a shifty liar.. and I tink she was just an unhappy mixed up silly woman
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  #1086  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:01 AM
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I think you have to be logical about this. Many within the BRF believed that Diana was probably the source however the fallout from the publication of the original book left the BRF all looking at their friends and employees with distrust because of the sheer depth and range of information leaked in that book. Let's face it, every argument has two sides and vilifying Andrew Morton for exploiting a depressed woman is rubbish. It was merely revenge served cold.

Diana didn't encourage her friends to spill, she was the main source. It really was her 'true' story. She chose Morton to write it and contacted him to do it. She spent a lot of time working with him on the book using a friend as couriers to deliver tapes to him and for him to get galleys to her. Seeing the galleys with Diana's handwritten notations and edits certainly eased as many minds as it hurt.

The timing is irrelevant, it was a story with credibility and evidence. We may not like it, think it was insensitively timed, etc. but immediately after her death, that book was used as proof that the BRF treated her badly with the rider that if she could have told us in her own words we would have known the true state of her life.
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  #1087  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:14 AM
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This tread is about her last hours death etc why can't we stop going off topic
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  #1088  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:29 AM
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This tread is about her last hours death etc why can't we stop going off topic
It's all related, because what happened in those last hours has everything to do with what went before. Like it or not, it's all one knot. It all leads to the same issue every time. No getting around it.
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  #1089  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:47 AM
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No getting around what, when many on this thread seemingly feel that Diana was self-centred, a not very good mother, silly, stupid, self-absorbed, mentally ill etc etc? What are we to take from this litany of criticism? That she did this to herself, that she made all the wrong decisions in her marriage to Charles, that he was blameless, and that therefore her death was no-one's fault but her own? Well I don't accept that, never have and never will.

I was there on the streets of London among those crowds at the time of Diana's funeral. I can honestly say (and I have been present at many occasions at which members of the BRF have been performing engagements, and in the Mall on occasions of national rejoicing) that I have never in my lifetime witnessed such a palpable outpouring of grief and sheer love for any public figure ever, and I doubt I will again.
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  #1090  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:53 AM
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It's all related, because what happened in those last hours has everything to do with what went before. Like it or not, it's all one knot. It all leads to the same issue every time. No getting around it.


Well maybe we need to cut some treads out I stopped counting at 30 that were about Diana
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  #1091  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:38 AM
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No getting around what, when many feel that Diana was self-centred, a not very good mother, silly, stupid, self-absorbed, mentally ill etc etc? What are we to take from this litany of criticism? That she did this to herself, that she made all the wrong decisions in her marriage to Charles, that he was blameless, and that therefore her death was no-one's fault but her own? Well I don't accept that, never have and never will.
What are you so keenly desirous of blaming Charles for? I truly am curious. If anything, I blame Charles for marrying Diana. He has only himself to blame for his first marriage because he failed to stand up and resist the pressure to marry her. That is his fault. But he is not to blame for the unknowns lurking in Diana's personalty make-up. He is not responsible for failing to contort himself sufficiently to please her, assuage her constant fears and desire to control him. Some things are beyond blame.

No getting around (and your post is an example of the no getting around) that Diana's last hours, death, transfer from France, funeral and internment, are all intimately wound up with how she lived her life, the decisions she made, yes. It's why we are talking about her death and funeral to begin with. No getting around it.

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I was there on the streets of London among those crowds at the time of Diana's funeral. I can honestly say (and I have been present at many occasions at which members of the BRF have been performing engagements, and in the Mall on occasions of national rejoicing) that I have never in my lifetime witnessed such a palpable outpouring of grief and love for any public figure ever, and I doubt I will again.
Perhaps we're not as innocent as we were back then, maybe we're too cynical now, so it won't happen again, but it has happened at other times. In the US the two most memorable incidents of such an out-pouring came with the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt in the mid-40's and the assassination of John F. Kennedy in 1963. Both those deaths caused the world to mourn. There have been other deaths that sent shockwaves. I am thinking of recent deaths of rock stars.

Certainly Diana's death sent a shockwave because the world's tabloids had just been showing Diana in the midst of canoodling with Dodi Fayed on a yacht in the sunny Mediterranean. A woman in her prime, gifted with all the perks of wealth and rank, had just been smiling out at cameras in a bathing suit in the arms of her lover. For it to suddenly be about a messy car accident? That's a shock.

The question is: how did it get to that? It got to that not because of Charles but because of her own self and choices in life. At some point self awareness and taking responsibility for her life would have had to have been Diana's ultimate 'recovery' from all her woes. I think this is the one disquieting aspect of the whole thing: how much Diana is posited as being without control of her situation, when in fact she drove the entire scenario, but without any admission that her reactions and actions had a part to play in what unravelled for her in her life.
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  #1092  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:41 AM
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Well maybe we need to cut some threads out I stopped counting at 30 that were about Diana
Why? Not my decision, of course, but I am curious why you feel the need to voice a desire to sever the conversation? It is a curious phenomenon I am now seeing for the 2nd time in recent days: someone dislikes the topic of a thread and starts to petition to have the thread closed. What is that?

If I don't like a thread topic, I stay clear of the thread. Reasonable?
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  #1093  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:08 AM
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This thread has, IMO, become a 'let's bash the heck out of Diana, let's criticise all her faults, (yes she was flawed, she was human,) don't let any criticism of anyone else that might have impacted her life decisions come their way, all of it was Diana's fault. Even the entire demise of the Wales marriage, Charles played no part in its breakdown. Poor long-suffering Charles, never to blame for anything!

I said when I described Diana's funeral, 'that I have witnessed', ie that I was there on the streets of London witnessing it, I wasn't there for President Kennedy's funeral.

And to compare the world wide mourning for Diana to rock stars' funerals is to further demean her isn't it though, as I know you dislike Diana I ought to have expected it.

And Yes, as I don't like the tone that this thread has taken I intend to leave it and not comment any more on it, extremely unbalanced against Diana as it has become.
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  #1094  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:19 AM
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I have one question for you:

Would you have bought any of the publications with photos taken that night had it not ended the way it did?
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  #1095  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This thread has, IMO, become a 'let's bash the heck out of Diana, let's criticise all her faults, (yes she was flawed, she was human,) don't let any criticism of anyone else that might have impacted her life decisions come their way, all of it was Diana's fault. Even the entire demise of the Wales marriage, Charles played no part in its breakdown. Poor long-suffering Charles, never to blame for anything!

I said when I described Diana's funeral, 'that I have witnessed', ie that I was there on the streets of London witnessing it, I wasn't there for President Kennedy's funeral.

And to compare the world wide mourning for Diana to rock stars' funerals is to further demean her isn't it though, as I know you dislike Diana I ought to have expected it.

And Yes, as I don't like the tone that this thread has taken I intend to leave it and not comment any more on it, extremely unbalanced against Diana as it has become.
I think you are uncomfortable with varying points of view to your own because that's all I see happening here. The conversation is respectful but the views are varying. In fact I do not dislike Diana. I never knew her. I think I see her more as an historical person rather than as someone personal to my experience. (I was a teenager when she died and I had no real connection to her, except through my mother's royal interests).

I genuinely see my interest as an historical interest, and I base most all of what I say and think regarding Diana on what I have read. I see her as complex, but I also see her fans as equally complex, if not more so, and even more interesting. I live in a beehive of public image concerns. I've grown up around people very much like Diana (imo). She is not alien to me, though how she played out on the world stage is quite unique because she was British and Royal. It's a very unique story, while still being very familiar to me.

I do not demean Diana when I liken the grief at her death to the grief of fans with any beloved public figure, even rock stars. Diana's popularity was like that of a rock star imo. It had all the earmarks of celebrity. She herself knew it and she used it. That's not demeaning her. IMO.
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  #1096  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:33 AM
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I can deal with varying POV as much as anyone. It's injustice and unfairness I can't stand. As for disliking Diana any time anything about her comes up there is criticism from you, Lady Nimue. If any question of Charles's behaviours comes into play you defend him. I think I'm fair in stating that someone who has never praised Diana for anything dislikes her. And I disagree. I think that you do demean her.


I presume that question is for me, Iluvbertie?

I followed Diana since her engagement to Charles in 1980. I went to be with the crowds at the funeral because I admired her. It wouldn't have mattered if she had died of a heart attack or a sudden illness at the hotel in Paris that night. I would have been in London because I very much admired Diana's achievements in many areas and wanted to be there to pay tribute.


No Diana fans that I know of are fascinated by car crashes, dramatic or otherwise. I also don't happen to be driven in my respect for people by magazine drivel.

I haven't bought magazines for thirty years, and have never bought the Daily Mail.
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  #1097  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:20 AM
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Exactly Curryong I try to ignore Diana threads because they are so biased and nasty. But then I can be following another thread and low and behold Diana is bought into and the nasty posts. What I find amusing is these are the same people who say nobody cares about her anymore.
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  #1098  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:44 AM
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I can deal with varying POV as much as anyone. It's injustice and unfairness I can't stand.
Rather than making assertions it would be helpful (and I mean this genuinely ) if you pointed out what exactly was unjust or unfair? It would enlighten rather than obscure, as assertions tend to do.

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As for disliking Diana any time anything about her comes up there is criticism from you, Lady Nimue.
Anytime? That covers a lot of time. But I would ask that rather than the assertion you provide an example. However, I do tend to push-back on a certain narrative regarding Diana. So if that particular narrative is your favorite, then of course I appear to be countering it. That's fair.

Bottom line, I require people to take responsibility for their lives. The fandom of Diana is disquieting because a particular kind of self-absorption Diana engaged in seems to be elevated to a kind of 'pedestal victimhood'. Yes, I will resist that. (It is something I will actively work to not have occur with my own daughters, who are quite young right now, but responsibility never starts too young imo).

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If any question of Charles's behaviours comes into play you defend him.
If that in fact occurs (though I am not sure it does) is that such a bad thing? If you can 'defend' Diana, what would be the problem with someone 'defending' Charles? Something about this doesn't make sense to me. How can this be a negative? You have to admit there is a great deal of Charles-bashing that goes forward under the guise of 'defending' Diana. All Diana's problems seem to be lain at the feet of Charles. How is that possible, even probable? Think about it.

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I think I'm fair in stating that someone who has never praised Diana for anything dislikes her.
I can't dislike her. I never knew her. That's a fact.

I'm not a fan, that is true. That should not translate into I dislike her. I'm not a fan of Madonna, doesn't mean I dislike Madonna, though Madonna I have met casually, and casually, she is a very nice person, and from that I trust she is actually a very nice person. However, still not a fan (I could see her laughing at that). There's a difference between liking (or disliking) someone because you know them and being a fan. I am not a fan of Diana.

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And I disagree. I think that you do demean her.
I do not think wanting to see the historical facts presented is 'demeaning'. But I am aware this is your opinion, to which you are entitled. I am just sorry that Diana fans (of a particular kind I am meeting here) do not seem able to see Diana clearly, and because someone else may, that person becomes a problem.

I would ask that you stay in the conversation, because I am very interested in the back-up to the way you see Diana. After a great deal of reading I find it hard to see Diana as anyone I might be a fan of, but that's just me. I am interested in other points of view, and hearing responses to my point of view, though I'd ask for facts and not assertions. That would be helpful. Else the discussion goes nowhere and becomes circular.
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  #1099  
Old 06-04-2017, 06:16 AM
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Let's get back on topic please, we are supposed to be discussing the last hours, death, transfer, funeral and internment of Diana, not books written about her or debating and analysing what lies behind individual member's opinions, post content etc. If people wish to hold a private conversation they may do so by PM. Thanks you.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:13 PM
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This tread is about her last hours death etc why can't we stop going off topic
Sorry I am guilty.. I can remember the ngiht her body came to KP.. I went with someone from work to see the flowers. And my dear husband who had not been her biggest fan, cried when we saw her hearse go by on the way to Althorp...
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