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  #1061  
Old 05-27-2017, 08:02 PM
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Yes, she had a bad marriage, but I don't think it excuse people from just lying about her and her death continuously. It's like people enjoy coming up with rumors about the lady.
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  #1062  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:18 AM
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Yes, she had a bad marriage, but I don't think it excuse people from just lying about her and her death continuously. It's like people enjoy coming up with rumors about the lady.
Whose doing that? Where is that happening? What's being said that are lies? Just wondering.
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  #1063  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:39 AM
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Whose doing that? Where is that happening? What's being said that are lies? Just wondering.
I'm talking about the many things that's been said over the years. The many books, tv shows, documentaries and movies. Let's not leave out the stuff people have written online too. I mean this woman's life and death has been turned into a blank piece of canvas. One can write and paint her in kind of way to ones heart desire. Truth is no longer there...unless ones family is speaking out.
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  #1064  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:43 AM
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Lady Nimue is correct, Diana: Her True Story was published in 1992 and after Diana's death it was re-released as "Diana: Her True Story In Her Own Words. Many of the things written in there were actually untrue as originally they were written by an angry spouse but embellished by an avaricious author. How many other authors got to flog the same book twice.

You can hardly blame the tabloids for following suit. But if I recall correctly from the time of Diana's death until her funeral I remember very public ill will between Charles Spencer and the BRF before any official announcements were made about the funeral, although I seem to remember some talk of a private "Family Funeral". Spencer family that is.

Do I believe he wanted to walk alone behind her coffin? Absolutely, after the fact that an official funeral was essential he still wanted it to be all about him and wouldn't he have looked tragic walking alone behind the coffin. Failing that, he took a cruel and vicious swipe at the BRF during the eulogy. It seemed that Charles was as unreasonable and unpredictable as Diana had ever been. His so-called Eulogy cemented that notion of spite more than anger or grief.
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  #1065  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:34 AM
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Lady Nimue is correct, Diana: Her True Story was published in 1992 and after Diana's death it was re-released as "Diana: Her True Story In Her Own Words. Many of the things written in there were actually untrue as originally they were written by an angry spouse but embellished by an avaricious author. How many other authors got to flog the same book twice.

You can hardly blame the tabloids for following suit. But if I recall correctly from the time of Diana's death until her funeral I remember very public ill will between Charles Spencer and the BRF before any official announcements were made about the funeral, although I seem to remember some talk of a private "Family Funeral". Spencer family that is.

Do I believe he wanted to walk alone behind her coffin? Absolutely, after the fact that an official funeral was essential he still wanted it to be all about him and wouldn't he have looked tragic walking alone behind the coffin. Failing that, he took a cruel and vicious swipe at the BRF during the eulogy. It seemed that Charles was as unreasonable and unpredictable as Diana had ever been. His so-called Eulogy cemented that notion of spite more than anger or grief.
Charles Spencer didn't want to walk behind his sisters ciffin so it could be all about him. It was a mutual decision within both families. He didnt take a swipe at the royal family during the service. He just spoke the truth about his dead big sister. It was a very emotional time for both families.
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  #1066  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:48 AM
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At least Margaret was not hypocritical, unlike too many on that day.
So true!
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  #1067  
Old 05-28-2017, 05:42 AM
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Yes, but I think that this was a continuation of how Diana was viewed during her life. This was especially true during her early years in the Royal Family. When she was with Charles on tours or on engagements at home, he made the speeches. People could see in her what they wanted to see, because we didn't know much about what she was like behind the scenes. It wasn't until Diana started making heart-felt speeches in the 90s--which were a bit too heart-felt at times--we didn't really know how she felt about things. That changed with the Panorama Interview.
well Diana can't win, can she? when she didn't make speeches much, she was viewed as not very intelligent, when she did make speeches they are now judged as too heartfelt.
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  #1068  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:15 PM
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well Diana can't win, can she? when she didn't make speeches much, she was viewed as not very intelligent, when she did make speeches they are now judged as too heartfelt.
In a way, yes. But that's the way of the press. That's who she made her pact with, bottom line. I also think the 'too heartfelt' is referencing the overly personal admissions, heart-on-her-sleeve self-confessional-type moments. Diana did not have boundaries, that was both her tragedy and the aspect that endeared her to so many. She was 'sharing' with her public like a friend and they adored her for it, while others (like the tabloid press) reverted to stand-by British sensibilities to judge those moments. Can't win for losing should be a tabloid truism. (It certainly applies to Charles).

Off-topic: Diana's biggest mistake was that she lived her life through the lens of the camera and saw herself through her press clippings, a sad state of affairs for anyone.
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  #1069  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
[...]

Off-topic: Diana's biggest mistake was that she lived her life through the lens of the camera and saw herself through her press clippings, a sad state of affairs for anyone.
That is a quite good summary of Diana's royal and post-royal life, I must say.
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  #1070  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:14 PM
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Maybe it's been discussed here already, from the recent documentary about events surrounding Diana's funeral:

Hidden turmoil behind Diana's funeral revealed in documentary - Lifestyle - NZ Herald News

Oh my! Most poignant of all was how the Duke of Edinburgh cried out with anguish during the phone conference:

"It's about the boys, they've lost their mother!" I recall how Philip encouraged William about walking behind the casket, and that he would join in walking with him and Harry to be supportive.

Understandably Charles, Earl Spencer was tense and angry about everything.

How heartbreaking that 12-year-old Prince Harry had begged his father that he wanted to go with him to Paris to accompany his mother's body back to Britain.
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  #1071  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:48 PM
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How heartbreaking that 12-year-old Prince Harry had begged his father that he wanted to go with him to Paris to accompany his mother's body back to Britain.
Such a needless tragedy. Too young, too soon, for anyone.
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  #1072  
Old 05-31-2017, 03:28 PM
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Exactly. That's what I meant.
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
I also think the 'too heartfelt' is referencing the overly personal admissions, heart-on-her-sleeve self-confessional-type moments. Diana did not have boundaries, that was both her tragedy and the aspect that endeared her to so many.
In retrospect, I prefer her pre-Settelen speeches: I get the sense that the later speeches were very much about herself. She was using the venue of a charity appearance to talk about her own problems--either directly or indirectly. She was reaching out to her public in the best way she knew how, asking for understanding and sympathy. However, that isn't the purpose of royal visits to charity. The purpose is to draw attention to the charity's cause and offer thanks on behalf of the nation for what the charity attempts to do.

I remember Diana with fondness. She was an important person to me during my 20s and early 30s. I think that she accomplished some very good things during her short life, in spite of her significant problems.
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  #1073  
Old 05-31-2017, 04:12 PM
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Exactly. That's what I meant.

In retrospect, I prefer her pre-Settelen speeches: I get the sense that the later speeches were very much about herself. She was using the venue of a charity appearance to talk about her own problems--either directly or indirectly. She was reaching out to her public in the best way she knew how, asking for understanding and sympathy. However, that isn't the purpose of royal visits to charity. The purpose is to draw attention to the charity's cause and offer thanks on behalf of the nation for what the charity attempts to do.

I remember Diana with fondness. She was an important person to me during my 20s and early 30s. I think that she accomplished some very good things during her short life, in spite of her significant problems.
Her focus and dedication was to her charities. She worked very hard on representing them and highlighting their causes. I think had she lived, we would've saw greater results of help on those many causes. The problem is with her very untimely passing, we didn't get a chance to see what she would've been able to do.
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  #1074  
Old 05-31-2017, 05:30 PM
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I think that when it came to things such as the landmine campaign, she was able to step outside of herself and really focus on the job at hand. It was the same with her work with sufferers of various diseases such as cancer, AIDS, leprosy, etc. It was more in her speeches about bulimia and depression that she seemed to inject too much of herself into her speeches. I didn't like her tone in those speeches, such as when she joked about "postponing" her "nervous breakdown to a more appropriate moment" That was simply self-centered. There was no need for her to reference the rumors about herself during the speech.

I respect the amount of charity work that Diana did. I think that it was important. That doesn't mean that I think she sometimes used her speeches to signal about how hard-done-by she was.
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  #1075  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:32 PM
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in that speech, Diana was replying to stories that she was going to give up her charity work because she had had a recurrence of bulimia.. She was clearly under a lot of strain and perhaps it would have been better for her to really give up her work for a bit but she didn't want to do that. So she made some slightly hysterical jokes about her "being ill" and having a nervous breakdown. It was perhaps foolish of her but given the strain she was under, I would not want to be too harsh on her. Problaby had she given up her wrok completely to focus on having therapy or a rest, her detractors would have attacked her for not doing any charity work
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  #1076  
Old 05-31-2017, 09:16 PM
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I think that when it came to things such as the landmine campaign, she was able to step outside of herself and really focus on the job at hand. It was the same with her work with sufferers of various diseases such as cancer, AIDS, leprosy, etc. It was more in her speeches about bulimia and depression that she seemed to inject too much of herself into her speeches. I didn't like her tone in those speeches, such as when she joked about "postponing" her "nervous breakdown to a more appropriate moment" That was simply self-centered. There was no need for her to reference the rumors about herself during the speech.

I respect the amount of charity work that Diana did. I think that it was important. That doesn't mean that I think she sometimes used her speeches to signal about how hard-done-by she was.
She was making fun of herself in the speech and referred to the headlines about her. Members of the royal family and other public figures do this all the time.

When she talked about depression and Bulimia, she was right to talk about her issues to help raise awareness for the illness. She highlited the issue during the time when it wasn't talked about. A lot of people really didn't know about bulimia symptoms in the 90's. Now, her two sons and daughter-in-law are talking about their own issues for the Heads Together Campaign.

Diana wasn't self centered, but she had many issues like many other people and she used her high position to help shine a light on other people's issues and the problems she shared with them. The things Diana was doing was a little ahead of her time, because people didn't think the royals should be speaking out about their personal stuff. Now her family is getting tons of praise for doing the same thing. The "men in grey coats", royal establishment and the media wasn't having it in her day.
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  #1077  
Old 06-01-2017, 01:14 AM
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When she talked about depression and Bulimia, she was right to talk about her issues to help raise awareness for the illness. She highlited the issue during the time when it wasn't talked about. A lot of people really didn't know about bulimia symptoms in the 90's.
I think you're ascribing more than was actually there. Diana had a very hard time accepting that she had a problem. She wasn't raising awareness with her comments. She was 'pushing back' on the rumors.

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Now, her two sons and daughter-in-law are talking about their own issues for the Heads Together Campaign.
Not quite the same thing. A discussion about grief and generic mentions of 'talking to someone' in a therapy session is not divulging one's personal issues.

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Diana wasn't self centered


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The things Diana was doing was a little ahead of her time, because people didn't think the royals should be speaking out about their personal stuff.
She wasn't really speaking out about her 'personal stuff'. She was in accusatory mode. She was blaming others for her actions that she 'knew' others found 'off'. The public did not actually know how much members of the BRF were trying to get help to Diana. Instead of taking the help and really working in therapy, she made speeches with 'jokes' about her nervous breakdown. That's not being 'ahead of her time'. What she was doing was wince-able. Anyone doing now what she did back then would be recognized as in deep distress and not lauded. IMO No laughing matter.

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Now her family is getting tons of praise for doing the same thing. The "men in grey coats", royal establishment and the media wasn't having it in her day.
You have scrambled the sequence. Diana was not arguing for therapy, she was running from it. Her sons and daughter-in-law are advocating for counseling.
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  #1078  
Old 06-02-2017, 09:43 AM
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When did the public 'know' (for certain, I know it was long speculated) that Diana was behind the Morton book? Because that was certainly Diana telling how she felt about things. I view that book as her first 'interview' that began the whole unravelling.
I believe that was pretty soon known, with her visiting Caroline Bartholomew, details in the book nobody else could have known and the Patrick DeMarchelier pictures that were published in the book.
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  #1079  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:08 AM
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I think you're ascribing more than was actually there. Diana had a very hard time accepting that she had a problem. She wasn't raising awareness with her comments. She was 'pushing back' on the rumors.



Not quite the same thing. A discussion about grief and generic mentions of 'talking to someone' in a therapy session is not divulging one's personal issues.







She wasn't really speaking out about her 'personal stuff'. She was in accusatory mode. She was blaming others for her actions that she 'knew' others found 'off'. The public did not actually know how much members of the BRF were trying to get help to Diana. Instead of taking the help and really working in therapy, she made speeches with 'jokes' about her nervous breakdown. That's not being 'ahead of her time'. What she was doing was wince-able. Anyone doing now what she did back then would be recognized as in deep distress and not lauded. IMO No laughing matter.



You have scrambled the sequence. Diana was not arguing for therapy, she was running from it. Her sons and daughter-in-law are advocating for counseling.
She made a joke in her speech, Lady Nimue, it's not that serious as you're trying to make it. The headlines were crazy and she made a slight joke about it. The audience like it and laughed. You have to try to have a laugh at yourself sometimes. It helps you get through the hard times.

Yes, The Queen reached out and Prince Philip reached out. She appreciated their help and there's letters to prove it. Although, the help she and even Charles needed wasn't something they could professionally handle. Too much focus was on them performing before the world, and not on them getting the help they needed to sort out their family and personal issues. The marriage may have been beyond repair, but at least the counseling would've helped them resolve things in a more appropriate manner.

The Cambridge's and Prince Harry are doing a beautiful job on the Heads Together campaign and sharing their personal stories, but they are being allowed to do this in the right time.

In Diana's day, this sort of thing would've been discouraged by the royal family, palace officials and even government. The work Diana was getting into- cancer, aids and other causes were considered too risky. Even The Queen preferred for Diana to champion soft causes; like helping with animals and such.

Diana had personal issues, but due to her own suffering, she wanted to get involved with causes that dealt with others people's suffering. In a way, she could relate to them and they related to her. She touched many people lives because she truly cared about them and wanted to use her high royal position to champion worthy causes that helped people.

Diana wasn't perfect and Lord knows she made some bad mistakes with the game playing with the media. Her heart was in the right place, but her personal life was in a bad condition, and resources and the family support just wasn't there at the time.

I totally understand William and Harry's wish they could've been of some more help to her. In a way they were though. They gave their mother lots of love and personal joy and she showered them with tons of love and joy too. No matter what was going on in her short life, her kids was very important to her. I happen to think if she was able to start a new life for herself and her kids, she would've done so.
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  #1080  
Old 06-02-2017, 03:32 PM
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I believe that was pretty soon known, with her visiting Caroline Bartholomew, details in the book nobody else could have known and the Patrick DeMarchelier pictures that were published in the book.
no it wasn't. It wasn't known till after her death when Mortotn released the tapes and revealed that she was the source.
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