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  #561  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:40 PM
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She kept arresting in the ambulance - she had no hope if they hadn't stopped to stabilise her as she would have died in the ambulance. Refuse to accept that if you like but she was delivered to the hospital alive - that is what the ambulance, by stopping, was able to achieve. Had they not stopped they wouldn't have been able to do that - they stopped to revive her as she was arresting and to stop that needs you have to stop - can't be done while moving and if not done would have seen her die. Quite simple really - choose - deliver her alive or dead - the ambulance decided to deliver her alive and took the time to do so.

The French system includes having a doctor and nurse in the ambulance - not paramedics like the US, UK and Australia etc - so they are better qualified at scene and therefore also take longer at scene and on the way - because they are better qualified to provide medical care and also have better equipped amublances to transport the heavily injured person.

Different country to most of us here and a different system but it works and worked that night - they delivered her alive to the hospital by using their system. Even in Australia today - a scoop and run system - if the patient is going into cardiac arrest they stop to stablise - they don't keep going because the evidence is to do so would increase the probablility of the patient dying in the ambulance and being delivere to hospital dead.
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  #562  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She kept arresting in the ambulance - she had no hope if they hadn't stopped to stabilise her as she would have died in the ambulance. Refuse to accept that if you like but she was delivered to the hospital alive - that is what the ambulance, by stopping, was able to achieve. Had they not stopped they wouldn't have been able to do that - they stopped to revive her as she was arresting and to stop that needs you have to stop - can't be done while moving and if not done would have seen her die. Quite simple really - choose - deliver her alive or dead - the ambulance decided to deliver her alive and took the time to do so.

The French system includes having a doctor and nurse in the ambulance - not paramedics like the US, UK and Australia etc - so they are better qualified at scene and therefore also take longer at scene and on the way - because they are better qualified to provide medical care and also have better equipped amublances to transport the heavily injured person.

Different country to most of us here and a different system but it works and worked that night - they delivered her alive to the hospital by using their system. Even in Australia today - a scoop and run system - if the patient is going into cardiac arrest they stop to stablise - they don't keep going because the evidence is to do so would increase the probablility of the patient dying in the ambulance and being delivere to hospital dead.
My understanding is that the issue was not the one time the ambulance stopped on the way to the hospital because Diana went into arrest (they would have stopped in the US too), the controversy is over the fact that the medical crew tried to stabilize her for about an hour in the tunnel. I don't think she went into arrest during the first hour. In fact, she was semi-conscious.
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  #563  
Old 08-19-2013, 08:42 PM
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"The Bodyguard's Story: Diana, the Crash, and the Sole Survivor" , was an eye opening book for me. It answered a lot of questions. Trevor was former military and was very good with close protection protocol. He points out all the times the plans were changed and safety was not taken into consideration. It was Henri Paul wanting to be a smart alec playing cat and mouse with the paps on motorcycles, plus driving drunk and on little sleep. Plus Dodi seemed to love the attention, rather than hole up in a room and avoid it, he wanted to flaunt her in front of everyone, thus dragging her out with all the frenzy going on. Certainly Diana and Dodi did not know Henri was drunk, but they should have stayed put, or at the very least wore seat belts. Trevor should have stepped up with some authority and put his foot down on the reckless driving. They were getting the pics no matter what, whether they were going 50 kph or 220 kph. So it was ridiculous to be speeding like he was.
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  #564  
Old 08-19-2013, 08:45 PM
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What a shame that Diana didn't put her foot down and demand to stay put at the hotel rather than be shuffled around from one place to another by Dodi. If she was that upset and exasperated by the situation, I wish she threw a fit and refused to move. Another case of "what if."
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  #565  
Old 08-19-2013, 08:45 PM
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She had been involved with Hasnat Khan for a couple of years before she started spending time with Dodi. My impression is that his family were stricter Muslims than the Fayeds were, and Diana was supposed to have considered conversion to Islam during her relationship with him. If the "Establishment" were against Diana having a relationship with a Muslim, it would have been that one IMO.


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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
Well this whole thing is just insane. I dont know what to think. Was it just an accident or was there someone out there who was really hell bent on getting rid of her because she was outspoken and supposedly engaged to a muslim and a thorn in the side of the BRF?
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  #566  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:41 PM
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My understanding is that the issue was not the one time the ambulance stopped on the way to the hospital because Diana went into arrest (they would have stopped in the US too), the controversy is over the fact that the medical crew tried to stabilize her for about an hour in the tunnel. I don't think she went into arrest during the first hour. In fact, she was semi-conscious.
No ambulance. A helicopter. Time is of the essence and people who know exactly what they are doing. I had a son whose life was saved that way. Too slow, to primitive.
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  #567  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:03 PM
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Just as a viewpoint from the emergency room in this country. I have a sister who is an ER Doc at Bellevue in NYC which is the 3rd largest emergency department in the country. Her position is that Diana's one chance was in the 'scoop and run' practice of getting her to the OR as fast as possible. The only way to repair the heart lesion and displacement was open heart surgery in the operating room, with time of the essence. No way, in the ambulance. By pounding on the chest (CPR) they dislodged the clot blocking the hemorrhage from the heart lesion, causing exsanguination.
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  #568  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:06 PM
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My understanding is that the issue was not the one time the ambulance stopped on the way to the hospital because Diana went into arrest (they would have stopped in the US too), the controversy is over the fact that the medical crew tried to stabilize her for about an hour in the tunnel.
No, the EMS crew would NOT have stopped. Here in the US, we practice scoop and run. The faster you get to the hospital, the greater you survival odds.
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  #569  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:37 PM
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No, the EMS crew would NOT have stopped. Here in the US, we practice scoop and run. The faster you get to the hospital, the greater you survival odds.
Mr. Remote here worked for years as both a professional medical transport EMT and volunteer for our local fire and rescue and there's been several times that they did stop and stabilize the patient en route to the hospital. I need to add also that this type of treatment was ONLY if there was a paramedic on board with radio instruction/assent from a doctor. Normally though the scoop and run is the standard operation procedure though.
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  #570  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:05 PM
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Scooter is correct. France has that theory that you should stabilize before transport. If they has scooped and ran, m a y b e .......
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  #571  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:14 PM
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Scooter is correct. France has that theory that you should stabilize before transport. If they has scooped and ran, m a y b e .......
......maybe they would have delivered a dead princess to the hospital since she was arresting in the ambulance while under the care of the ambulance doctor and nurse.
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  #572  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Mr. Remote here worked for years as both a professional medical transport EMT and volunteer for our local fire and rescue and there's been several times that they did stop and stabilize the patient en route to the hospital. I need to add also that this type of treatment was ONLY if there was a paramedic on board with radio instruction/assent from a doctor. Normally though the scoop and run is the standard operation procedure though.
You are right, it depends on the equipment aboard an ambulance. In my area, if a person goes into cardiac arrest, they will stop the ambulance in order to restart the heart to avoid brain damage. The paramedics and the doctor will make the call based on how far they are from the hospital.

The policy in France is different and there are arguments for and against both systems. There is no perfect system. I tend to think Diana would have survived had she been taken to the hospital immediately and there had been a good surgical team. But no country should base its policy on one accident involving a famous person, so I am not criticizing France's policy.
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  #573  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:22 PM
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......maybe they would have delivered a dead princess to the hospital since she was arresting in the ambulance while under the care of the ambulance doctor and nurse.
She wasn't arresting in the first few minutes, she was semi-conscious. The issue is whether she would have been better off if they had gotten her to the hospital before her heart stopped. We'll never know.
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  #574  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
My understanding is that the issue was not the one time the ambulance stopped on the way to the hospital because Diana went into arrest (they would have stopped in the US too), the controversy is over the fact that the medical crew tried to stabilize her for about an hour in the tunnel. I don't think she went into arrest during the first hour. In fact, she was semi-conscious.

That is the French system - to stabilise at the scene by a doctor not a paramedic - and most countries only have a paramedic while the French actually have doctors on scene - and it is usual there for them to take an hour of so at scene to do the initial work. It was their way then and is their way today - to have a doctor at scene with the ambulance.
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  #575  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
She had been involved with Hasnat Khan for a couple of years before she started spending time with Dodi. My impression is that his family were stricter Muslims than the Fayeds were, and Diana was supposed to have considered conversion to Islam during her relationship with him. If the "Establishment" were against Diana having a relationship with a Muslim, it would have been that one IMO.
Maybe not Mermaid. The relationship with Dr. Khan was hidden from the public. Dodi Fayed was on many magazine covers, especially THE KISS cover. I think that might have arouse the Establishment to action.
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  #576  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:24 AM
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Her biggest mistake was in rejecting royal security. There is no reason for her to reject officers. She set herself up as the foremost royal influence in the lives of her sons and should have protected herself accordingly.



Why shouldn't she have been looking after herself, not laying the responsibility for her protection (along with making responsible decisions) on everyone else? She rejected royal security officers who would have done that, but refused to own up to her adult responsibilities of making the right decisions for herself, not making everyone else take care of her.
I think she gave up royal security because she wanted a normal life (without bodyguards going to the bathroom with her, etc.
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  #577  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:26 AM
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I'm re-reading operation pagat and according to the document help arrived at 12:30am/12:40am and the princess of wales was apparently resisting help and they said her positioning and broken bones was making it harder to extract her. They did extract her at 1am though
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  #578  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:29 AM
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She should have worn her darned seatbelt.

That's it and that's all.

Goodnight,

Gracie.
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  #579  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:39 AM
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The way they kept changing their plans that night, it seems like a lot of the decisions were based on impulse rather than common sense. I think Diana was just letting Dodi take charge of things, maybe not realizing how bad his judgment could be.
It was not just Dodi, but Mr. Fayed by phone and Henri Paul knew the plans. If the phone was tapped and Henri Paul contacted his sources many knew about the impulsive plans.

I am waiting to see if they investigate the letter. I know the family that wrote it are in harms way from the ex son-in-law. So for them writing the letter was a way to stop him from hurting family members. The son-in-law might be mentally derange or telling the truth about that night.

BTW, I have thought that with Prince William and now Prince George the secession is established. So is that way this is now this is coming out? But truly, if it was murder does anyone on this board think the investigators with really tell the truth?
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  #580  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:42 AM
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I'm re-reading operation pagat and according to the document help arrived at 12:30am/12:40am and the princess of wales was apparently resisting help and they said her positioning and broken bones was making it harder to extract her. They did extract her at 1am though
The must of drugged her and the broken bones and postioning was the real reason it took 20 minutes to get her out.
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