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  #541  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:08 PM
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I was just re-reading Ken Wharfe's analysis of how official royal protection works as opposed to private security. It occurred to me that Diana would have been safer had she driven herself: she had taken anti-terrorist training at least once as Princess of Wales, including a driving stint.
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  #542  
Old 08-18-2013, 09:18 PM
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^I remember those pics actually so your right she would have prob still been here if she was the one driving.

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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Court Martial is a military trial.
Oh ok thank you!

Her protection officers had a point what took these in laws so long to air these claims like why now why not 2007 or 2008 when the trial was still going on?

I just bought Diana Inquest the untold story and I def am gonna read it with the trial transcripts I have saved should be an interesting read especially with these new claims. I might also re-read Trevor's book to refresh my memory.
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  #543  
Old 08-19-2013, 12:40 AM
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Almost 16 years after the tragedy, and beyond any conspirancy or simple accident theory, i can not stop thinking how simply stupid was all this!
It was soo easy for at least one of them JUST TO SLEEP THERE! After all they were at a Palace Hotel!
Nothing would have arrived!
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  #544  
Old 08-19-2013, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I still ask myself, why in the world they would get a person like that to drive the car, when they knew he was drinking heavily?
He was not a heavy drinker, the chauffeur has also been flying small airplanes and AFAIK he did not have any reports about any drinking problems while in duty before this terrible accident happened.
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Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.
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  #545  
Old 08-19-2013, 03:39 AM
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Well this whole thing is just insane. I dont know what to think. Was it just an accident or was there someone out there who was really hell bent on getting rid of her because she was outspoken and supposedly engaged to a muslim and a thorn in the side of the BRF? I have to admit that the circumstances of her death were very odd and there is always the, what ifs. The SAS are reported to be shocked at the allegations but, is it possible? At this point, who knows? And will we ever really know what happened? I think not. It is basically a he said, she said. It was tragic and senseless and I dont know what else to think. It is all overwhelming. And lastly, is this going to bring her back and bring closure for all of us 16 years later? It wont for me. She is gone and there is nothing we can do to change that. Just my opinion.
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  #546  
Old 08-19-2013, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Almost 16 years after the tragedy, and beyond any conspirancy or simple accident theory, i can not stop thinking how simply stupid was all this!
It was soo easy for at least one of them JUST TO SLEEP THERE! After all they were at a Palace Hotel!
Nothing would have arrived!
I tend to agree with you on this. I think it is unforgivable to have placed Diana in such a vulnerable position, carting her about Paris from one place to next with insufficient plans, insufficient security and insufficient foresight as to how one should transport and look after the Princess of Wales (sic).
It has never surprised me that Dodi's father has been so vociferous in blaming everyone but himself and his son for having such an outrageously shocking and chaotic lack of ability to look after someone of such a high profile.
BUT, I would add also that I have never gotten over the surprise and disappointment that Diana allowed herself to be put in this position in the first place. She did not look happy in the cctv images at the back door of the Ritz - was this because of the paparazzi or because she realised how incapable her boyfriend appears to have been in looking after her properly.
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  #547  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:01 AM
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We will never know what exactly has happened,but I for myself do not believe in a conspiracy theory anymore.
(I did so for quite a while because there were many odd aspects in this whole story and probably also because I did not want to accept Diana´s death.)
What we can say for sure is that Princess Diana did not wear a seatbelt and she also did not have any of her security or bodyguards during that trip. I still believe it was a mistake to give up the security services that she was used to while she was still married. Being one of the most-photographed and well-known people in the world makes some security measurements necessary. You can´t just walk around like a normal commoner and expect to suddenly be left alone by the paparazzi just because you are no longer a member of the royal family. Princess Diana knew that they were constantly stalking her everywhere she goes, only a strict security strategy and professional bodyguards could have protected her privacy and safety. As people have already written, it was a very sad tragedy and it does not make much sense to put the blame on anyone because it is not going to bring anyone back to life.
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Avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing
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  #548  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:47 AM
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Her biggest mistake was in rejecting royal security. There is no reason for her to reject officers. She set herself up as the foremost royal influence in the lives of her sons and should have protected herself accordingly.

Quote:
because she realised how incapable her boyfriend appears to have been in looking after her properly.
Why shouldn't she have been looking after herself, not laying the responsibility for her protection (along with making responsible decisions) on everyone else? She rejected royal security officers who would have done that, but refused to own up to her adult responsibilities of making the right decisions for herself, not making everyone else take care of her.
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  #549  
Old 08-19-2013, 06:09 AM
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All these conspiracy theories seem so ridiculous to me -MI6 on orders from Prince Phillip and now the SAS. The royal family isn't the Mafia with the Queen and Phillip sitting on chairs stroking a corgi tellings their grey men henchmen what to do. It would be like if a navy seal said the seals killed JFK Jr because Bill Clinton didn't like Carolyn Bessette. Diana's death was an accident just like JFK Jr plane crash was.

Mohammed Al Fayed is quick to point the finger at everybody else but the decision makers that evening.

With any accident you can always play the what if game. What if you left 2 minutes later ? What is you stay in instead of going out? What if you make a left instead of a right?
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  #550  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Her biggest mistake was in rejecting royal security. There is no reason for her to reject officers. She set herself up as the foremost royal influence in the lives of her sons and should have protected herself accordingly.



Why shouldn't she have been looking after herself, not laying the responsibility for her protection (along with making responsible decisions) on everyone else? She rejected royal security officers who would have done that, but refused to own up to her adult responsibilities of making the right decisions for herself, not making everyone else take care of her.
Precisely, and I wonder at what point during that fateful evening might she have thought to herself, "what the hell am I doing here with this playboy lothario?"
It is one thing to have gone on holiday on a boat miles from the shore being snapped by photographers and paparazzi from a distance whilst conducting a fling on-board with someone who has no concept of how to handle oneself with a princess.
It is quite another to have to endure the embarrassment of being trapped in a glitzy hotel in the middle of Paris with hundreds of people outside, knowing there's no possibility of a smooth, dignified, elegant exit...and then, after all that, being forced to wait in a drafty staff entrance whilst your useless, panicking lover tries to find a car and a driver to take you home in.
And had Diana retained a proper security detail - preferably one employed by the royal protection squad - she would never, ever have had to endure what I describe above and would no doubt have been whisked away quickly, quietly and under-cover back home to the UK.
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  #551  
Old 08-19-2013, 12:22 PM
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the one thing in all these discussions about her death i hardly hear talked about is. the only 1 to survive the accident was the only 1 wearing his seat belt. if she has simply buckled up she would be alive today. that was her biggest mistake forget all these silly conspiracy theories buckle up it really does save lives
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  #552  
Old 08-19-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by doric44 View Post
the one thing in all these discussions about her death i hardly hear talked about is. the only 1 to survive the accident was the only 1 wearing his seat belt. if she has simply buckled up she would be alive today. that was her biggest mistake forget all these silly conspiracy theories buckle up it really does save lives
Seat belts do save lives and I have no doubt that Diana would have lived had she been buckled in. She would have survived if she had been taken to the hospital immediately.

However, I don't think Trevor Rees Jones was wearing a seatbelt that night. I read somewhere that he never wore seatbelts on duty because he needed to move about freely. I believe he was saved by the airbag.
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  #553  
Old 08-19-2013, 01:36 PM
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He had a few drinks after leaving work that day and while at the Ritz that evening. He was also on anti-depressants.

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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
He was not a heavy drinker, the chauffeur has also been flying small airplanes and AFAIK he did not have any reports about any drinking problems while in duty before this terrible accident happened.
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  #554  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:16 PM
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I would like to know what Trevor thinks of all of this. I dont remeber at this point but did Trevor ever say anything about what he thought might have happened? Has he been heard from lately? He must know something or was there something about he could not remember what happened?
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  #555  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:25 PM
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I would like to know what Trevor thinks of all of this. I dont remeber at this point but did Trevor ever say anything about what he thought might have happened? Has he been heard from lately? He must know something or was there something about he could not remember what happened?
IIRC, he wrote a book. I've seen him interviewed. I don't think he remembers the actual accident, but he disagrees with the Mr. Fayed's conspiracy theories. Rees Jones was really clear that he thought it was just a tragic accident. I also remember that both he and another bodyguard argued against Dodi's plan to take just one car and leave from the rear of the hotel. The professional bodyguards wanted to have two cars and go out the front.

I think Trevor also said that Henri Paul didn't seem drunk and Trevor didn't smell alcohol, but he acknowledged that Henri was a heavy smoker so that would mask the smell. People react differently to alcohol. The driver was probably not falling down drunk but he had a couple of drinks at the bar. Even one drink would have significantly slowed his reflexes. Henri would probably have been okay if he had been driving at around the speed limit, it was the combination of speed and alcohol that led to the loss of control of the car.
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  #556  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:37 PM
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Trevor's book was his last word on the subject except for his testimony during the inquest when he said that he remembered a female voice calling "Dodi."
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  #557  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:52 PM
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Seat belts do save lives and I have no doubt that Diana would have lived had she been buckled in. She would have survived if she had been taken to the hospital immediately.

She wouldn't have made it to the hospital if she had gone there without stopping as they stopped to revive her to give her a chance when they finally reached the hospital.

French ambulances are basically mobile hospitals and have the emergency stuff on board but they need to stop to use it - which they did. Had they not been able to use that stuff she would have been DOA.

I really do think it is awful that people think that the ambulance people in France didn't do the rigth thing - just because French ambulances have different protocols to scoop and run.

If an ambulance is fitted with the appropriate equipment, such as defibrilators (back in the mid-90s certainly) they have to stop to use those things but to not use them sees the patient die.
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  #558  
Old 08-19-2013, 05:09 PM
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She wouldn't have made it to the hospital if she had gone there without stopping as they stopped to revive her to give her a chance when they finally reached the hospital.

French ambulances are basically mobile hospitals and have the emergency stuff on board but they need to stop to use it - which they did. Had they not been able to use that stuff she would have been DOA.

I really do think it is awful that people think that the ambulance people in France didn't do the rigth thing - just because French ambulances have different protocols to scoop and run.

If an ambulance is fitted with the appropriate equipment, such as defibrilators (back in the mid-90s certainly) they have to stop to use those things but to not use them sees the patient die.
I realize the French system is different than the scoop and run system that many of us are used to, and I'm sure the French system has its benefits, but it's not quite a mobile hospital. They weren't and wouldn't have been able to perform the emergency surgery that Diana needed to stop her internal bleeding, and I recall that some of the "life-saving" measures used in the ambulance that night may have made her internal bleeding worse (though it's been a while since I've read about all that in detail). Mind you, I'm not a medical professional of any kind, but I seem to recall that some doctors who weighed in on the matter believed getting her to the hospital faster might have saved her life, while others have said it wouldn't have made a difference. But again - hindsight is 20/20.
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  #559  
Old 08-19-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Trevor's book was his last word on the subject except for his testimony during the inquest when he said that he remembered a female voice calling "Dodi."
Your right I also remember Trevor saying this accident has ruined his life and he wished to go on with his life and swore not to be speak of it any longer unless needed to.
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  #560  
Old 08-19-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She wouldn't have made it to the hospital if she had gone there without stopping as they stopped to revive her to give her a chance when they finally reached the hospital.

French ambulances are basically mobile hospitals and have the emergency stuff on board but they need to stop to use it - which they did. Had they not been able to use that stuff she would have been DOA.

I really do think it is awful that people think that the ambulance people in France didn't do the rigth thing - just because French ambulances have different protocols to scoop and run.

If an ambulance is fitted with the appropriate equipment, such as defibrilators (back in the mid-90s certainly) they have to stop to use those things but to not use them sees the patient die.
Which system will work better depends on the injuries. Sometimes it is better to stabilize the patient and then transport and sometimes it is better to transport immediately. I'm not a medical professional but, from what I have read, she would have had a better chance if she had gotten to the hospital.

I don't mean to sound critical. No system is perfect and I'm sure the French system saves a lot of lives that otherwise would have been lost.

The driver is responsible for drinking and speeding. It was Diana's responsibility--and only Diana's responsibility--to buckle up.

There were other incidents of Diana recklessly engaging in high speed races with photographers. It's annoying to be photographed when you don't want to be, but speeding down a residential street not only endangered the people in the car, but other automobiles and pedestrians. Unfortunately, it ended badly, not just for Diana, Dodi, Henri, and Trevor, but for their families and friends.
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