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  #201  
Old 05-31-2016, 09:55 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Well some people might not mind, giving up full time surgery to be the husband of a woman they loved who was able to support them. ANd Diana DID try to find some way of compromising between their lifestyles, she wanted them to move to S AFrica and tried to him a job with Christiaan Barnard...
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  #202  
Old 05-31-2016, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well since Khan insisted on keeping the relationship secret it is hard to see what good she was as a trophy.

I disagree.

How secret was it? Everybody knew about it!
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  #203  
Old 05-31-2016, 11:07 PM
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Hasnat Khan was in a terribly difficult position. Apart from the obvious difficulties inherent in the relationship he came from a very traditional family in Pakistan (whom Diana once visited.) His parents, to whom he was close, wanted an arranged marriage for Hasnat or at least for him to marry a Pakistani woman on the same level of society as himself. Hasnat did marry later (possibly to please his parents, and he was getting older,) but it just didn't work out.

The relationship between Diana and Hasnat would never have worked in a million years. However, the heart wants what the heart wants. I think, from everything that I've read, that they were terribly in love with each other, but in the end Hasnat decided that they had no future together and so made the decision to split.

Why couldnt any of these men possibly be in love with Diana? Was she so unlovable? Many men who met her found her enchanting. Even Hewitt was desperately in love with her at the time of their affair, and only turned to writing/talking about it later, when he was broke. It would be hard for Diana to be a trophy when she was never seen out wining and dining or even taking a walk hand in hand with any of them.
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  #204  
Old 05-31-2016, 11:34 PM
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None of Diana's relationships with men sound healthy imo. In some respects Diana was a stalker. She wouldn't take no for an answer. What is being described vis-a-vis Hasnat sounds scary to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Well some people might not mind, giving up full time surgery to be the husband of a woman they loved who was able to support them. ANd Diana DID try to find some way of compromising between their lifestyles, she wanted them to move to S AFrica and tried to him a job with Christiaan Barnard...
The man was a surgeon. His career was/is likely his life. As with most men (I have known) his work likely defines him. If the man is as honorable as made out (and I trust he is) I do not think he would ever have 'settled' out of his career for a sexual relationship with some attendant warmth of feelings. Not in keeping with the character of the man.
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  #205  
Old 06-01-2016, 12:06 AM
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From everything I have read Hasnat was deeply in love with Diana. It wouldn't have been a matter of settling for anything. They just came from different worlds and their marriage wouldn't have worked. Hasnat realised it before she did but that doesn't make his love for her any less. There seems to be this impression among some posters that Diana stalked him and threw herself at him and there was just a bit of fondness on his side. Not so, IMO.
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  #206  
Old 06-01-2016, 03:10 PM
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Yes, I believe that she had what could be described as "impulse control" problems.

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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
None of Diana's relationships with men sound healthy imo. In some respects Diana was a stalker. She wouldn't take no for an answer. What is being described vis-a-vis Hasnat sounds scary to me.
Doesn't make them wrong. Diana's relationships with men didn't seem to do her much good, in the long run.

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And I'm sorry Mermaid but your ideas about relationships are old fashioned. Today, and in the 90s, people didn't have sex because they had intentions to marry they had sex because they had feelings for each other.
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  #207  
Old 06-01-2016, 04:28 PM
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Who is to say? I hope that her feelings for Khan and their affair gave her some happiness. Its sad that it couldn't work as a mariage but I think in the short term it made her happy.

I agree Nimue that some people DO let their job define tehm and I think that is rather sad.. And if you read my post, I did say that Diana tried to find a compromise.. if He had worked for Barnard in S Africa, and perhaps spent some time working with her on her charities, I think he would have had enough to do, to keep him happy and he would have had the woman he loved... Of course his family and religious problems woudl have remained and it is possible that Di might nt have been able to settle for the life of a middle class surgeon's wife..
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  #208  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Well some people might not mind, giving up full time surgery to be the husband of a woman they loved who was able to support them. ANd Diana DID try to find some way of compromising between their lifestyles, she wanted them to move to S AFrica and tried to him a job with Christiaan Barnard...
I don't think the incident with Dr. Barnard was an attempt to compromise--it was an attempt to control. Diana did not talk to Dr. Khan before she asked Dr. Barnard to help find him a job.

It was completely inappropriate. I would be furious if my husband had taken that type of liberty, and Diana and Dr. Khan were not even engaged.

I believe Dr. Khan and Diana loved each other, but that doesn't mean that her actions were innocent and harmless. She stalked him. She called him multiple times a day and let herself into his apartment without his permission. She demonstrated similar behavior with Oliver Hoare.
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  #209  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:09 PM
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Well I think she chased him. I would not say stalked him. I dont know of her letting herself intot his apartment without permission.. how would she do that unless he gave her a key? She rang him up a lot.. yes, but she did that with all her friends. If he really wanted to end the relationship he coudl have done so, but he clearly found it hard to do so becuase he DID care for her..
And I think that she did mean well in trying to get him a job iwth Barnaard. She wanted him to have a job, I imagine that they discussed living togethter or getting married.. evne if it seemed difficult.. and While I gather he was annoyed, I think that she was trying to find a way they coudl be together, and that he could keep on working as a surgeon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I disagree.

How secret was it? Everybody knew about it!
No. there was talk, but it wasn't well known for some time. Diana was caught at his hospital but told a reporter that she went there at night to comfort patients.. and I think that she put out a story or 2 that she knew him but there was no love affair, in hopes of putting the media off. But Khan hated the whole media circus that followed Diana and I think that even her talking to reporters to try and get them away from the story, upset him.
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  #210  
Old 06-02-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Why couldnt any of these men possibly be in love with Diana? Was she so unlovable? Many men who met her found her enchanting. Even Hewitt was desperately in love with her at the time of their affair, and only turned to writing/talking about it later, when he was broke. It would be hard for Diana to be a trophy when she was never seen out wining and dining or even taking a walk hand in hand with any of them.

Perhaps trophy is the wrong word.

I don't mean these men wanted to flaunt Diana in public, but rather that the affair (with a famous and attractive woman) flattered them and validated their own desirablility. It's the same way that many men wouldn't turn down a well-known celebrity, whether or not they had feelings for her.

It's an ego-stroking thing.

But that isn't love.
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  #211  
Old 06-04-2016, 02:51 AM
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But there's always an ego stroking thing in any relationship, even if it is a totally secret one that nether party talks about. Its flattering to be loved.. or to have someone attracted to you. IM sure Diana's ego was soothed by the fact that a handsome art expert like Oliver Hoare loved her, when her own husband had fallen out of any feelings for her.. In fact I think that Di DID use her status as a beautiful princess to "summon" men to visit her, becuase she could.. like Will Carling...
I dotnt see why you seem to refuse to beleive that any of Diana's boyfriends genuinely loved her.. I can't see why they shoudlnt'. She did have her problem but she was sweet natured, affectionate fun to be with, and warm and giving..Why shouldnt they love her? I think that Khan certainly did... he's always tried to keep the affair as something private and has rarely talked of it.. so did Oliver Hoare. James Hewitt hasn't acted as if he loved her certainly..He's used her as a cash cow, even when they were together, he let her buy him things..and when tehir affair was over, he basically sold his story... and has Continued to do so.
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  #212  
Old 06-04-2016, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Hasnat Khan was in a terribly difficult position. Apart from the obvious difficulties inherent in the relationship he came from a very traditional family in Pakistan (whom Diana once visited.) His parents, to whom he was close, wanted an arranged marriage for Hasnat or at least for him to marry a Pakistani woman on the same level of society as himself. Hasnat did marry later (possibly to please his parents, and he was getting older,) but it just didn't work out.

T
.
I agree that his cultural and religious background was such that he would have found it hard to escape it and marry a Non Pakistani non Muslim woman of a sutiable rank...And their attitude was certainly that yes she was royal and she was a lovely woman and a nice person, but she wasnt' what they wanted for him..
but I agree too that he loved Diana and I think he wished that they could be together but he knew his family would be unhappy, he knew that he could not stand the media circus around Diana. He loved his work and I think that he was a bit afraid of Di's intense emotions.. and Im sure he feared that if he gave way and married her, and they settled somewhere like S Africa. Diana would not really be able to adjust to being a middle class doctors wife...
But it was Diana who finished the affair, as I recall. He gave testimony at the Inquest that she had ended it and he thought that she had become involved iwht someone else.. - of course that being Dodi Fayed.
but I think that while they both recognised the difficulties, both of them were in love and were on and off for ages, becuase they could not quite finish with each other.
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  #213  
Old 06-05-2016, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I don't think the incident with Dr. Barnard was an attempt to compromise--it was an attempt to control. Diana did not talk to Dr. Khan before she asked Dr. Barnard to help find him a job.

It was completely inappropriate. I would be furious if my husband had taken that type of liberty, and Diana and Dr. Khan were not even engaged.

I believe Dr. Khan and Diana loved each other, but that doesn't mean that her actions were innocent and harmless. She stalked him. She called him multiple times a day and let herself into his apartment without his permission. She demonstrated similar behavior with Oliver Hoare.
I agree, and much else. She called him while he was with patients and expected him to interrupt his work for her. They may have loved each other but Dr Khan was very wise turning her down imo. If I recall correctly, her visit to his family in Pakistan was not with his permission. Am I right on that?
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  #214  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:13 AM
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why woudl she have to have permission to visit his family?
And I suppose that he was wise in a sense in not wanting to marry her, but I dont think the decision made him very happy. He seems to have married to please his family and the marriage ended.. so clearly it wasn't a good decision. Its true that Diana's status and her being used to being a princess would problaby have made it very hard for her to get used to being a middle class doctors wife... but I can't help thinking that he might as well have tried to see if it would work for them. I get the feeling that he's very lonely and still in love with Diana. Besides, it was Diana who ended the relationshp..
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  #215  
Old 06-05-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why woudl she have to have permission to visit his family?
And I suppose that he was wise in a sense in not wanting to marry her, but I dont think the decision made him very happy. He seems to have married to please his family and the marriage ended.. so clearly it wasn't a good decision. Its true that Diana's status and her being used to being a princess would problaby have made it very hard for her to get used to being a middle class doctors wife... but I can't help thinking that he might as well have tried to see if it would work for them. I get the feeling that he's very lonely and still in love with Diana. Besides, it was Diana who ended the relationshp..
I don't want to speak for Lady Nimue, but perhaps the better word would be "approval." Her visit to his family impacted him--yet she went against his wishes It was not a minor decision--he very close to his family and her visit to them impacted him. Yet she insisted on going anyway because she didn't trust his judgment and had an inflated belief in her ability to change people's attitudes through her charisma and charm.

She also had a serious lack of understanding of his family's religious and cultural beliefs. Diana should have waited until she and Dr. Khan had come to an agreement on how to handle his family's misgivings about their relationship.
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  #216  
Old 06-05-2016, 02:44 PM
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I don't see it was very terrible. Khan problably would not have married her, anyway.. and I think that it is fair to say that the Khans liked her very much, they just did not want him to marry her.. OK so she miscalculated.. She hoped that by meeting them she might overcome their disapproval, what's wrong with this?
As for Khan, In the end although he refused to take the relationship to a public level, he was not the one who broke it off finally... so if he was so against the idea of marrying her why not firmly finish it and refuse to see her again. Besdies I'm sure his family weren't going to disown him because his western girlfriend paid them a visit...
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  #217  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:04 PM
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As far as Dr. Khan's family's feelings on their relationship, I referred back to Khan27's post here (post #122 of this thread I believe) who is actually a member of Dr. Khan's family. She stated:

"I don't know how the relationship ended. They were planning on meeting to talk but on a later date. He grieved a lot.. not sure whether it was for that reason. No one in the family encouraged/discouraged a marriage between them, so yes they probably could have. I just don't know whether or not he liked the idea of being married to a princess."

This says a lot I think.
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  #218  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:34 PM
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I don't see it was very terrible. Khan problably would not have married her, anyway.. and I think that it is fair to say that the Khans liked her very much, they just did not want him to marry her.. OK so she miscalculated.. She hoped that by meeting them she might overcome their disapproval, what's wrong with this?
As for Khan, In the end although he refused to take the relationship to a public level, he was not the one who broke it off finally... so if he was so against the idea of marrying her why not firmly finish it and refuse to see her again. Besdies I'm sure his family weren't going to disown him because his western girlfriend paid them a visit...
What is wrong with it was that Khan didn't want her to visit his family. Obviously they didn't disown him but, again, he didn't want her to do it. In healthy relationships there is give and take. If my husband and I disagree about how to handle something, we work through it. He would be upset if I just went off and did something I knew he didn't want me to do (and vice versa).

Furthermore, Khan didn't want her to talk to Dr. Barnard about a job. He was upset also about Diana talking to a priest about marrying them--without talking to Khan first. Jobs, family, and marriage are issues that couples should work out together. Diana apparently didn't respect Dr. Khan very much. I think she loved him but was to control him, and he apparently didn't like it. He was very wise not to marry her.
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  #219  
Old 06-06-2016, 01:43 AM
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well he was problaby saying to her, "I dont want to marry you" but giving her the mixed message of not breaking off the relationship for good and making a marriage of hte kind his family wanted...
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  #220  
Old 06-06-2016, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Furthermore, Khan didn't want her to talk to Dr. Barnard about a job. He was upset also about Diana talking to a priest about marrying them--without talking to Khan first. Jobs, family, and marriage are issues that couples should work out together. Diana apparently didn't respect Dr. Khan very much. I think she loved him but was to control him, and he apparently didn't like it. He was very wise not to marry her.
I've not heard about her consulting a priest about a marriage but to be honest, I'd not put it past her. I think one of Diana's problem with relationships is that she envisioned exactly how that relationship should be and should go and if it didn't meet her criteria, then she'd either move on or try to manipulate things to go the way she wanted them to.

In this respect, I don't think Diana ever was really ready for a partnership which is what a marriage is really all about. Its give and take and working together to resolve issues.
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