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  #101  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:31 AM
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I heard that she was a schemer... that her and the Queen Mother put Diana directly in the path of Charles so that they might meet.. is there any truth to that?
No, Frances was not a schemer, but Fermoy and the old Earl Spencer were, IMO. I'm afraid Diana was seen as a pawn in a game to catch the greatest prize of all, to finally get a Spencer on the throne.
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  #102  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:34 PM
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What is it and the usage of women for political gain? Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, etc. Goodness.
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  #103  
Old 10-23-2009, 08:19 AM
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The game is played both ways. Queen Mary (and others) viewed Lord Mountbatten as a schemer and his "pawn" was Prince Philip.
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  #104  
Old 10-23-2009, 09:04 AM
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The game is played both ways. Queen Mary (and others) viewed Lord Mountbatten as a schemer and his "pawn" was Prince Philip.
A very successful schemer I may add. No one has any doubt that the Queen fell in love with Philip and is still in love with him, it has been a very long and successful marriage thanks to Lord Moutbatten.
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  #105  
Old 10-23-2009, 03:53 PM
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Yes, there's quite a bit of love between those two octogenarians. If anything, Philip Mountbatten was an inconvenient match for Princess Elizabeth. There were his German relations, relations whom Britian was at war with just two years before the wedding. The King and Queen didn't seem to like him very much. I think that Princess Elizabeth showed a great deal of determination in marrying him. No-one could have manipulated a determined girl like that into marrying someone she didn't really want.

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A very successful schemer I may add. No one has any doubt that the Queen fell in love with Philip and is still in love with him, it has been a very long and successful marriage thanks to Lord Moutbatten.
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  #106  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:01 AM
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It wasn't just the marriage. The then Prince of Hanover warned Queen Mary of Lord Mountbatten's scheme to have 'Windsor' eventually replaced so that Charles would be the first Monarch of the House of Mountbatten. Queen Elizabeth (QM) also wasn't a fan of Lord Mountbatten.

Lord Mountbatten was close to both Prince Philip and later the Prince of Wales. Access and closeness equals 'influence' and those who have it don't give it up gladly. And especially not to someone who was known to hold "ambitions" for his name and his family.
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  #107  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:54 AM
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Any sex marrying into the aristocracy is expected to fit in to the traditional ways, any that don't or won't make the effort are chewed up and spat out. I think the same problems of age difference happen across the social divide, not just within the aristocracy.
I agree with you. Half the trouble is that you have a young romantic bride and an older man who's hardened and set in his ways. After the honey moon's over the romantic young bride has a reality check. I also think that until recently there was some old fashioned snobbery in there too. I mean, just look at the way they used to hunt high and low for a suitable bride but not a commoner, no! The aristocrats in Britain used to consider themselves as "betters" and looked down on commoners entering the set. It also seems that commoners who marry into the British set bail out after a few years. Only one of the Queen's children's marriages to a commoner has even lasted.
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  #108  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:05 AM
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... The aristocrats in Britain used to consider themselves as "betters" and looked down on commoners entering the set. It also seems that commoners who marry into the British set bail out after a few years. Only one of the Queen's children's marriages to a commoner has even lasted.
Would any of the middle or upper classes be happy for their son/daughter to marry a chav, of course not. What the upper classes or aristocrats tend to look for, IMO, is to marry within their social set or above, simply not too far below.

There are many happy, long lasting marriages within the aristocracy, where one of the partners was not from that class. The ones that don't want to make the effort to fit in do leave or are not included, the same is true, I would imagine, with any marriage where the partner makes no effort to adapt.
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  #109  
Old 12-05-2009, 11:21 AM
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A love these pictures of Diana with her mother in 1980 and 1989
http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php...1_de0c4187.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/i/diana5971hd.jpg/
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  #110  
Old 12-06-2009, 08:58 PM
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Diana is very pretty in the second pic,and she resembles a little to her mom.Thanks dear gfg02
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  #111  
Old 12-07-2009, 11:33 AM
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Although the Prince of Wales was given the surname Mountbatten-Windsor it can't be argued that he will be the first Mountbatten sovereign. Mountbatten is the anglicized form of Battenberg, which is a noble house, and Princess Andrew of Greece was born with that name. It is highly unlikely any sovereign would take the maiden name of his paternal grandmother as his House designation. Please do correct me if I am wrong but a 1957 order in council confirmed the royal house would remain Windsor, no hyphens or interlopers allowed.
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  #112  
Old 12-09-2009, 01:09 PM
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In the first picture, I like the close up of Diana and her mother. They resembles a little bit. Thank you, gfg02.
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  #113  
Old 12-09-2009, 02:30 PM
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Yes, I believe you're right.

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Originally Posted by Hereditary Thane View Post
Please do correct me if I am wrong but a 1957 order in council confirmed the royal house would remain Windsor, no hyphens or interlopers allowed.
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  #114  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:30 PM
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I did nt realize there was such an age difference between
Frances and her beau... the future Earl Spencer...
When they married.....Frances was age 18 and John Spencer age 30.
Yes it was the wedding of the year.. ie...... 1954... and the wedding took place
at Westminster Abbey.
Frances and John made a handsome couple...
go here
http://www.bestfreeforum.com/forums...eaven.html#367

They were ( like Charles and Di ) from different generations... I wonder if that contributed
to the breakdown in their marriage.


.
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  #115  
Old 01-04-2010, 09:29 PM
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Frances had that same side-long look that Diana had. I've just noticed it in this picture. In some ways, Diana's life mirrored that of her mother's.
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  #116  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:05 PM
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Does anyone have a picture of Diana and her mom which was taken during the engagement period. They are walking down a street, I think they were shopping, I believe Diana had on a pair of white slacks which made her legs look a mile long and they were both kind of smiling at the photographers? I had the picture but someone ripped it out of my scrapbook.
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  #117  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:40 PM
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not quite the pic you want
but Francis and Diana nevertheless
go here
Celebheaven • View topic - Lady Sarah Spencer
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  #118  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:51 AM
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Cool

For a long time I had a bad impression of Frances and it came from the info put out when Charles and Diana became engaged and then married. Frances had always been portrayed as the evil mother leaving her family in the cold. Being married to Johnny Spencer was no bed of roses for Frances. She was under pressure to bear the ever important heir and along with Johnny's drinking there was rumors of verbal and physical abuse which I have read in various articles, but I cannot state as to the truth. I think she put up with a lot of difficulties and it had to be terrible plus humiliating to be portrayed as she was in the press, let alone have her own mother testify against her during the divorce. I ended up feeling sympathy for Frances.
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  #119  
Old 01-20-2010, 10:10 AM
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If I remember rightly, at one time Diana was living
in London with her mother.
She went to stay with her father in Norfolk for a few
days and the future Earl refused to send her back... thus
began the custody battle.
Perhaps when Frances mother came out on the side of
the Earl........... (that's family loyalty for you ! )
the case went against her and Diana stayed in Norfolk .
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  #120  
Old 01-20-2010, 03:50 PM
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Ruth Fermoy was a social climber. She married the titled wealthy Baron Fermoy who was twice her age. Outwardly, she supported Viscount Althrop instead of her daughter Frances because she believed in the sanctity of marriage. However, Tina Brown suggests that she was outraged that her daughter would leave her titled husband for a "wallpaper salesman." Had Frances left Johnnie for an higher-ranking duke or marquess, Ruth might have approved. She was afraid Frances would move the grandchildren to Australia and they would develop Australian accents.
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