The Spencer Family, Ancestry and Althorp 1: Ending Aug. 2023


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Your main point is quite right, but the former Maria Walpole was no longer a commoner when she married the Duke of Gloucester. She was the dowager Countess Waldegrave, having become a peeress in virtue of her first marriage to the Earl Waldegrave.

wives of peers are commoners.
 
wives of peers are commoners.

In British common law, a woman who marries a man above her rank automatically takes on the rank of her husband. A commoner woman who marries a male peer becomes a peeress (and retains that status as a widow until she remarries).

This rule is why, for example, in the days when peers were legally entitled to be tried for alleged crimes by a jury of their fellow peers, their wives were entitled to the same privilege.

https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld/ldcomp/compso2010/ldctso15.htm
 
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Nancy Witcher Langhorne Astor, Viscountess Astor, CH (19 May 1879 – 2 May 1964) was an American-born British politician who was the first woman seated as a Member of Parliament (MP), serving from 1919 to 1945.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Astor,_Viscountess_Astor

She was wife of a peer and was seated in the House of Commons.
Only commoners had right to sit in in the House of Commons.
 
Countesses don't count (no pun intended!) as being of suitable rank in countries where morganatic marriages apply. Sophie Chotek was born a countess, as was the Hungarian countess from whom the Tecks descended.
 
Countesses don't count (no pun intended!) as being of suitable rank in countries where morganatic marriages apply. Sophie Chotek was born a countess, as was the Hungarian countess from whom the Tecks descended.
That depends. A female member of a mediatized comital house would have been of suitable enough rank to marry into a royal family. That said such an alliance would, although technically allowed, have been frowned upon by many royal houses in the first half of the 20th century given the difference in status.
The countesses Chotek and Rhédey von Kis-Rhéde were not suitable matches for imperial and royal princes because they as members of the nobility weren't seen as ebenbürtig with their future husbands.
 
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Can someone explain to me how the late model Stella Tennant and Diana are fourth cousins once removed? It say's that on Stella's page.
 
Can someone explain to me how the late model Stella Tennant and Diana are fourth cousins once removed? It say's that on Stella's page.

They are most likely related via her mother Lady Emma Cavendish, whose father was the Duke of Devonshire. One of the previous Duchesses of Devonshire was born Georgina Spencer (daughter of the first earl Spencer). However, not sure if that's a fourth cousins once removed-relation. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other links as well.

Edit: the line for each of them to John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer: in this lineage they would be 5th cousins twice removed.

Stella Tennant - Lady Emma Cavendish - Andrew Cavendish, 11th Duke of Devonshire - Edward Cavendish, 10 th Duke of Devonshire - Victor Cavendish, 9th Duke of Devonshire - Lord Edward Cavendish - Georgina Howard, the Countess of Carlisle (born: Lady Georgina Cavendish) - Georgina Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire (née Spencer) - John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer

Lady Diana Spencer - John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer - Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer - Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer - Frederick Spencer, 4th Earl Spencer - George Spencer, 2nd Earl - John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer
 
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Their relationship was indeed quite distant.

The first Earl Spencer, John Spencer’s (1734–1783) eldest child was Lady Georgina Spencer (1757–1806). She married William Cavendish (1748–1811) the 5th Duke of Devonshire in 1774.

When Lady Diana was still alive, the Duke at that time would have been the 11th Duke, Andrew Cavendish,. However, she would have been of a similar age to the 12th Duke’s eldest son, then Lord Burlington. Lady Emma Cavendish, Stella’s mother, was a daughter of Andrew, the 11th Duke, I think, by his wife, the former Debo Mitford.
 
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Thank you both, I've noticed most prominent noble families most likely descend from a Cavendish so they must've been a very popular family to marry into. I know when Georgiana Spencer married the 5th Duke of Devonshire it was seen as a upgrade for the Spencers, very interesting!

The late Queen's grandmother was also born a Cavendish-Bentinck.
 
You’re welcome. The Dukes of Devonshire were very prominent in the 18th century. They were supporters of the Whigs (political party.) Many Cavendishes have had quite large families so there were a lot of members of this family to marry.
 
They are most likely related via her mother Lady Emma Cavendish, whose father was the Duke of Devonshire. One of the previous Duchesses of Devonshire was born Georgina Spencer (daughter of the first earl Spencer). However, not sure if that's a fourth cousins once removed-relation. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other links as well.

Edit: the line for each of them to John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer: in this lineage they would be 5th cousins twice removed.

Stella Tennant - Lady Emma Cavendish - Andrew Cavendish, 11th Duke of Devonshire - Edward Cavendish, 10 th Duke of Devonshire - Victor Cavendish, 9th Duke of Devonshire - Lord Edward Cavendish - Georgina Howard, the Countess of Carlisle (born: Lady Georgina Cavendish) - Georgina Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire (née Spencer) - John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer

Lady Diana Spencer - John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer - Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer - Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer - Frederick Spencer, 4th Earl Spencer - George Spencer, 2nd Earl - John Spencer, 1st Earl Spencer
Sorry to bother you, I've found another link.

Stella Tennant is also a direct descended of James Hamilton, 1st Duke of Abercorn. He is her great-great-great-great-grandfather. While for Diana he is her great-great-great-grandfather. So maybe it's through that side they are fourth cousins once removed?

Stella descends from him via Evelyn Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire.
 
You’re welcome. The Dukes of Devonshire were very prominent in the 18th century. They were supporters of the Whigs (political party.) Many Cavendishes have had quite large families so there were a lot of members of this family to marry.
They have been one of the richest since the 15th century and there used to be at least two ducal families closely related to them the Dukes of Portland and the Dukes of Newcastle, both extinct
 
Thank you both, I've noticed most prominent noble families most likely descend from a Cavendish so they must've been a very popular family to marry into. I know when Georgiana Spencer married the 5th Duke of Devonshire it was seen as a upgrade for the Spencers, very interesting!

The late Queen's grandmother was also born a Cavendish-Bentinck.
Definitely an upgrade because the Devonshires were a very politically prominent family and Ducal family. The Bentinck’s added the Cavendish to their name when Dorothy Cavendish, daughter of the 4th Duke married the 3rd Duke of Portland. The 4th Dukes wife, Charlotte was a wealthy heiress from the Boyle family
 
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This thread has been closed. You can find the new thread here.
 
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