Different Facets of Diana

[Dman]

Junor is not coming out with anything new. This was all reported at the time but Diana's fans simply can't stand to hear the truth about Diana.

I'm a Diana fan and will always be and I can take the truth about Diana. As I said before, Diana was no angel, but to continue to slam Diana's name and memory over and over again is just tasteless and it says more about people like Penny than Diana. The drama over what happened during those years have been racked and combed over many times before, why continue to bring up all that drama again and again? the authors still want to cash in on it. I think people like Penny take a great deal of joy in Diana's unhappy years and at the end of the day it fills their pockets and the dead is spit upon in the process.

Want to write a book? fine, but have a heart and think about those who she left behind. It can't be easy for her children and families to see and read the mess people write about the person they loved and mourn to this day.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I completely agree Dman. How lucrative for Junor that Diana was so dysfunctional, messed up and is now conveniently dead.

It's earned her a fortune.

 

[Dman]

I completely agree Dman. How lucrative for Junor that Diana was so dysfunctional, messed up and is now conveniently dead.

It's earned her a fortune.

It's just the kind of stuff that sickens me. It's very easy to go on writing endless books, giving endless interviews and writing endless articles about about a person that's no longer here to defend herself. People feel like just because you're a fan of Diana's that you can't take and don't want to hear the truth. We all know that Diana made some mistakes in her life but she was human and humans make mistakes.

I take into account that Diana and her husband was going through a very rough and tough time in their private life. During those years of hurt and pain, they did some very childish things and weren't in their best state of minds at the time. That's just the sad reality of infidelity, separation and divorce in a marriage and family life. Their's were played out in the media; which made everything worse. To go on and cashing in on their painful marriage over and over again is just disgraceful.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Diana is an historical figure and books will be written about her for centuries to come.

Get used to it.

Junor, of course, had access to many of Charles', William and Harry's aides for this book as well so it is as close to an authorised biography as we will get - just as was the case when she wrote a similar book two years ago for William's 30th. She had the approval of KP then and again now as the staff have been permitted to talk about the princes to her.

 

[anbrida]

Another thing I am suspicious is the press seems knew a lot of things which should be quite beyond their knowledge.

Besides the unknown mysterious source behind the pay phoned call, the press also knew a lot of private conversation which should be exclusive to the other people, and they stated this information without referring to any source, as always. One of the example is

On March 14, Hoare had coffee at Kensington Palace with Di after a "kiss-and-make-up" dinner and, according to The Sun, later phoned Charles "to report that the meeting had ended amicably."

Such thing can only be known to the three people involved, Diana, Hoare and Charles. How come the press would get to know this? Who was the source?

Also the conversation between Diana and Richard Kay was so detailed that, you wonder whether these two people were talking in front of a journist.

Not only this article, a lot of (bad) thing has been writen about Diana that make me extremely courious what the hell the author would be able to know these private things.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Diana was bugged by the media. Also Charles and Camilla were bugged (remember the taped conversations). Diana also sought "friends" amongst staff, which is never a good idea and probably was a blabbermouth against "friends" with crystal balls, tarot cards and "lifelines" in whom she placed too much trust. These "friends" on their turn blabbermouthing to their respective friends and voilà... the snowball is running downhill.

 

[anbrida]

Diana was bugged? I think that was one sympton of her paranoid, right? Isnt it what the press always told us?
How convient it is to use this as an execue right now?

 

[anbrida]

Penny Junor is a lier. One example is from her book "Prince William, born to be king", she stated that Diana got very angry about Tiggy for risking Harry's safty by allowing him to be hanged down a water dam with merely a rope on his waist. But this incident happened in 1998, how could Diana got angried with that.

And when she was stating in her book how bad Diana was, she must feel convinient to forget to tell the story that in 1997 Diana had tried to invite Tiggy for lunch to reach a reconcilation. And of course she would forget to quote the following words of Diana to her friend.

Bowker said she also overcame her dislike of Tiggy Legge-Bourke, the assistant to Charles who looked after Princes William and Harry when they were with their father. Legge-Bourke's description of the boys as "my babies" angered Diana, but Bowker said Diana recently confided to her: "She is devoted to the children and they are.devoted to her. Because she gives them happiness, I now accept her."

 

[Iluvbertie]

Penny Junor is a lier. One example is from her book "Prince William, born to be king", she stated that Diana got very angry about Tiggy for risking Harry's safty by allowing him to be hanged down a water dam with merely a rope on his waist. But this incident happened in 1998, how could Diana got angried with that.

I have just re-read that section of the book and it doesn't mention Diana at all - she says Charles was 'apoplectic' not Diana.


It followed the chronological telling of the story of how the princes put on his 50th birthday party event and invited Camilla along.

 

[MARG]

I think many people are confused about this book. So far there is nothing new reported, it's just that there have been so many books about the BRF and Diana in particular that they either haven't read them all or have forgotten what was once "News!".

Like it or not Diana opened that door herself and was totally unable to control the flow of information. It is awful that now, in the wake of the phone hacking debacle, when talking about the notorious phone calls reported by The News of the World, you have to know they knew what they were talking about, they weren't just just hacking voicemails but illegally obtaining phone records. So no proof provided but they were right. They had broken the law in many different ways and their victims were the great and the good at that time, high profile royals, celebrities, and politicians.

Diana herself provided an absolute shocker by way of taped sessions with her voice coach, Peter Settelen. To say that she was unbelieveably indiscreet is an understatement. He wasn't her therapist or her friend, and yet she found a ready ear. Chucking her nanny's engagement ring down the drain was the least of it, she was after all, a child. Not so when she shoved her stepmother down the stairs:

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months. I had to go back and say, you know... I love you daddy, etc, etc. I was so angry. I wanted to throttle that stepmother of mine because she brought such grief.

Who does something like that, this was not a child, this was a woman in her late 20's. The utter lack of sympathy or empathy was, quite simply, chilling, when she related the story to Settelen, in her early 30's.

Diana: Her True Story was lambasted as a wild speculation by an ardent admirer, Andrew Morton. So much of it did not make sense or was so fanciful and in some place simply and easily proved as untrue.

The princess detailed apparent attempts at suicide by hurling herself down a flight of stairs, slashing her chest and thighs with a penknife, cutting her wrists and throwing herself into a glass cabinet at Kensington Palace.

No one recalled her hurling herself down the stairs, there were no bruises, cuts, blood, scars, so it made sense that it was bogus and considered by many as fiction. How could he know such things about her private life. There were allegations, staunchly refuted, that Diana had a hand in the writing of the book, allegations that were proved correct after her death when the book was republished by 'Noah' with the new title, Diana: Her True Story - In Her Own Words. And yes he had proof, 90 minute tapes and galleys with her annotations. As to the veracity of the book, that immediately became even more suspect.

I personally, have never believed she hurled herself down the stairs. Not being able to nail an exact time frame, and depending on when she hurled Raine down the stairs she either knew death was not gauranteed because she didn't die so Raine wouldn't either or Raine didn't die so she mightn't either. But in 2012 light was shed by Raine, hearing that two letters from Diana to her, written before her marriage, were about to be sold at auction. Raine notified the Auction House that the letters were obviously stolen. They were returned to Raine. But, what was seen in the auction advert was enough to see a warm and affectionate rapport between these two women. Go figure.

I note these two incidences of Diana's behaviour to illustrate that the Settelen tapes were more than a little disquieting and Mortons book was, at times malicious. Both have her signature, her stamp of authenticity by voice or by hand. It is not nice reading and, if you care to dig, there is an enormous black sucking hole of more of the same, dozens of books, countless articles etc. ad nauseum. The (several) Inquests provide even more uncomfortable evidence both for and against Diana. To attack Penny Junor for writing about Harry's mother in her biography of Harry at 30, is pointless.

Truth about Diana and 'Acid' Raine | Express Yourself | Comment | Daily Express

Read more: Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Mail Online

 

[anbrida]

I have just re-read that section of the book and it doesn't mention Diana at all - she says Charles was 'apoplectic' not Diana.


It followed the chronological telling of the story of how the princes put on his 50th birthday party event and invited Camilla along.

I read that from the dailymail extract of the book, not the book itself.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Where to start? To Anbrida, Richard Kay was a journalist. The reason his account of their conversation was in the media is because Diana called him wanting to get her side of the story out. The rest of the accounts probably came from the police source (most reporters have at least one), palace sources, Diana's staff, and Diana herself. There was probably a friend of Charles in the mix, but the media couldn't quote him because Charles would have been upset if one of his friends went to the media. He had asked his friends not to do so.

Second, it really strains belief that the Hoares called in the police because they were receiving nuisance calls but Diana wasn't involved in the original calls. She only happened to make 12 nuisance calls to them as soon as the trace was set up.

Regardless, if you really want to believe that she only made 12 calls. So what? She shouldn't have made even one. But it is ridiculous to argue that she only made those 12 calls. If you want to believe that Diana didn't make the calls from the pay phones, she obviously made the calls from her own mobile phone, Kensington Palace, and her sister's home. It doesn't matter if there were 30 or 300 calls. It was illegal (that is why the police were called in).

She was an adult and when asked about the calls during a national interview, she should have simply said that she shouldn't have hung up on Hoare's wife. She should not have mentioned the young child who had nothing to do with the war of the Waleses--even if the child did make some of the calls.

I believe that Diana was mentally ill and it was hard for her to control her impulses, but she did have some control. I believe she had planned that response in advance. Regardless, there are some things you don't do and outing a child in a national interview is one of them.

Now, even though Diana was fanatical about getting her side of the story out--no matter who it hurt, some of her fans are criticizing Junor and others for getting another side of the story out. That is hypocritical. Diana's words and actions live on. She helped some people, she hurt some people. Both the people she helped and hurt have a right to tell their stories.

Let's say someone went around criticizing you, including some exaggerations, and then died. Are you saying that you wouldn't have the right to try and set the record straight?

The facts are that Diana was an historical figure who opened her private life to the media. People like Richard Kay and Andrew Morton made a fortune helping her tell her side of the story. People like Junor who are in Charles's camp have the same rights.

ETA: I also believe the media were bugging her and Charles whenever possible. The Camillagate and Squidgygate tapes are proof of that.

 

[Dman]

Diana is an historical figure and books will be written about her for centuries to come..

Yes, I know Diana is an historical figure and will be written about for years to come but I think it's totally sad when some people take so much pride in slamming Diana's memory over and over again and in an unfair way. Diana is made out to be the big bad rat scaring all the little harmless mice. Be fair in one's writing and let it be known that Diana wasn't the only player in the game.

 

[anbrida]

Penny Junor first claim "Diana warned to kill Camilla" story in her 1998 book "Charles: Victim or Villain".

Author Penny Junor was allowed access to 30 of the Prince of Wales' closet friends and aids to research her book - Charles : Victim or Villain - which will be published next month. It is highly unlikely they would have co-operated without his agreement. Only last month, Princes William and Harry called for an end to.what has called the "Diana industry" - commercial and media exploitation of the princess.

Junor is a lomg-time confidante of Charles and the most damaging allegation in her book is that Diana made late-night death threats to the Prince's mistress Camilla Parker Bowles.

Of the alleged death threats, Junor writes that Camilla would pick up the phone and hear a voice she recognised as Diana's saying: "I've sent someone to kill you. They are outside in e garden.

"Look out of e window. Can you see them?"

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Yes, I know Diana is an historical figure and will be written about for years to come but I think it's totally sad when some people take so much pride in slamming Diana's memory over and over again and in an unfair way. Diana is made out to be the big bad rat scaring all the little harmless mice. Be fair in one's writing and let it be known that Diana wasn't the only player in the game.

Junor is more critical of Diana but she has also been critical of Charles. She criticizes him for the TV interview. She also criticized both he and Diana for some of the decisions in raising William and Harry, including the turnover of nannies and lack of discipline. She also says that Charles was unprepared to handle Diana's emotional needs and wasn't especially constructive in his criticism. She acknowledges Charles wasn't 'in love' with Diana when they married and that he eventually resumed his affair with Camilla.

However, Junor, factually, details the impact of Diana's mental illness on their marriage. I understand that her fans don't want to hear anything negative about their icon but I don't find anything in Junor's writing to be unbelievable. or factually different than what we already know about Charles and Diana It's just a different side of the same story.

It's unfortunate that Diana's fans can't accept that there were two sides of the story.

 

[anbrida]

People here seems find it okay that the same story, without any source and concrete evidence, should be repeated again and again, for example around every important dates of her sons. Imteresting.

 

[Nice Nofret]

People here seems find it okay that the same story, without any source and concrete evidence, should be repeated again and again, for example around every important dates of her sons. Imteresting.

One thing has nothing to do with the other... while I find it more than sad, that these old stories are repeated over and over again - because of close family and friends - I cannot find bigger fault with those who write critical of Diana, than those who make her out beeing a reincarnation of Holy Maria...

 

[anbrida]

Can anyone here claim that in your life you have never done any impulsive action?

Although Diana could be impulsive, for example she pushed her stepmother off a step. But there are also evidences that she was a person very concerned about other people's lifes, more than her own life.

November 1995, Roberto Devorik stated that the day after the broadcast of 'Panorama' programme featuring the interview with the Princess of Wales, which he believed to be in November 1995, they traveled to Argentina. They did not travel together because she was concerned for his safty. On arrival in Buenos Airs after speaking to William on the telephone, she told Roberto Devorik, "after this they are going to kill me." - Report of Diana inquiries

Another story is from the time when she was in Paris on Aug 30, 1997.

Also yesterday, it was revealed that Diana told her bodyguard hours before her death that the paparazzi hounding her might kill themselves with their reckless driving.

She was worried one of them would end up under the wheels of her car as they scrambled desperately for pictures.

Minder Kes Wingfield's boss Paul Hanley-Greaves told e Harrods press conference: "The princess told him about the foolhardiness of the motorcycle drivers.

"She was afraid one of them might fall under one of the wheels of the car."

 

[Dman]

Again, we all know there are two side to the story and (us) Diana fans can accept Diana's faults. I think the problem is that if you're gonna write a book about Charles & Diana, I think it's best to be fair and balanced. That marriage went down because of both of their actions and with the help of the media. It's not about what one person did more than the other. Charles & Diana were and (still is) good people but made some major mistakes.

I think it's bad to get into the habit of ripping a new hole into the dead over the past drama and lightly slapping the living on the hand for the past drama. Be fair and honest about the "War of the Waleses" and when it comes down to their private marital problems, they both got very ugly.

 

[anbrida]

One thing has nothing to do with the other... while I find it more than sad, that these old stories are repeated over and over again - because of close family and friends - I cannot find bigger fault with those who write critical of Diana, than those who make her out beeing a reincarnation of Holy Maria...

If I am using lies or non-concrete stories to make her out being a reincarnation of Holy Maria, that is my fault. But all the stories I told are facts themselves. What are the impression they gave you is not up to me. Whether the stories make you feel she was the reincarnation of Holy Maria, or otherwise, it was all up to you.

This is a threat about facets of Diana. I dont see why I am wrong to have a more strict standard on the stories told in this threat.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Can anyone here claim that in your life you have never done any impulsive action?

Although Diana could be impulsive, for example she pushed her stepmother off a step. But there are also evidences that she was a person very concerned about other people's lifes, more than her own life.

I have done some impulsive actions in my life, but I've NEVER pushed anyone down the stairs. It's nice that Diana SAID that she was more concerned about other people's lives than her own. However, I really didn't find it convincing because you combined those quotes with her admission that she pushed someone down the stairs.

Pushing someone down the stairs is not a good thing to do. It's actually a crime. Saying that you are concerned about other people does not negate the fact that you pushed someone down the stairs.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Diana-Believers take her words to be truthfull, when ever it is positiv about her and negativ about the POW or the DoC ... while others have to proof what they say to the contrary to no ends.

 

[Dman]

Whatever happened between Diana and her stepmother was likely put behind them because they became rather close towards the end of Diana's life. Families have their drama no matter who they are and titles they have.

Pushing anyone down the stairs or step is the wrong thing to do but no none of us was there and know exactly what was said and the emotions that were involved.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

It's wonderful that her stepmother forgave her. It says a lot about the character of her stepmother.

However, this is about Diana. Pushing someone down the stairs is wrong. It is a crime. It is not nice. There is no excuse for it. I don't care if Diana made appearances for charity or said she cared about other people--pushing her stepmother down the stairs was a bad thing to do.

All families have drama--few people actually push another family member down the stairs. At least I hope it is only a few people. Some posters are making me wonder... I hope I don't met some of you in a back alley somewhere. Some posters sound really nasty.

 

[Dman]

I agree with you that pushing one's stepmother or anyone else down some steps is the wrong thing to do and no one is making any excuses for that incident. I think it's the case that they forgave each other and put their differences behind them. At the end of the day, you're family and you move on.

Personally, I have seem family members do some very crazy things to each other in heated arguments. One minute they arguing and fighting and the next they are the best of buddies, that's family for you.

 

[Miss Hathaway]

Completely agree COUNTESS. But this story is not in fact new. I remember reading it during the period after Diana's death, when Mark Bolland was hired to manage Prince Charles's p.r. and was working like a busy little beaver to makes Charles and Camilla more palatable to the (then) very hostile British press and public.

The source was of the story even then was...wait for it....PENNY JUNOR.

I wonder if Penny is including in this most recent book how Camilla Parker-Bowles assisted The Sun's editor for ten years from 1982 to 1992?

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I agree with you that pushing one's stepmother or anyone else down some steps is the wrong thing to do and no one is making any excuses for that incident.

Personally, I have seem family members do some very crazy things to each other in heated arguments. One minute they arguing and fighting and the next they are the best of buddies, that's family for you.

Dman, I'm sorry that your family has these problems. All families fight and argue, but domestic violence is always inexcusable. In the United States, people can call 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) for help finding shelter and counseling.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I wonder if Penny is including in this most recent book how Camilla Parker-Bowles assisted The Sun's editor for ten years from 1982 to 1992?

I've heard this story before. Sometimes it is the Sun and sometimes it is the Express. The vast majority of royal watchers acknowledge that the Duchess of Cornwall has never talked to the press. Unlike Diana, who was in constant contact with people like Richard Kay.

 

[Dman]

Dman, I'm sorry that your family has these problems. All families fight and argue, but domestic violence is always inexcusable. In the United States, people can call 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) for help finding shelter and counseling.

US Royal Watcher, I did not say that my family has gone though this nor did I mention that we need some professional help. Don't try to turn this around on me and make it seem like I'm a victim of domestic violence within my family. Don't get it twisted.

I said that I've seen families go through ups and downs with each other and then can go on to be friends and buddies the next day. What Diana and her family went through is something a lot of families go through. If help is needed, some seek it and some don't. It seems like what Diana and her stepmother went through was a little incident and no one was harmed in the process. They moved on long ago and so should we.

I've heard this story before. Sometimes it is the Sun and sometimes it is the Express. The vast majority of royal watchers acknowledge that the Duchess of Cornwall has never talked to the press. Unlike Diana, who was in constant contact with people like Richard Kay.

Camilla had her friends do the dirty work for her. Her hands were just as dirty as Diana's.

 

[anbrida]

I don't care if Diana made appearances for charity or said she cared about other people--pushing her stepmother down the stairs was a bad thing to do.

I dont understand what do you mean here. Are you implying if someone ever did something wrong, no matter what was the reason, these people are forever wrong person?

Diana's stepmother have forgiven her. They even became really good friend at the end. That told a lot about her step mother, but also a lot of Diana. I dont think her step mother would forgive a unrepenting person, right?