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  #901  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:41 PM
Dman's Avatar
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US Royal Watcher,

From what I understand, Diana didn't like her friends criticizing and talking bad about Charles much. She felt that, it was her husband and if anyone was going to bash him, she would do it. It wasn't right for her to bash Charles and it wasn't right for Charles to treat Diana badly. That all happened because they were hurt and angry at the time. Royal or not, in some cases, this happens when couples are going through a bad separation and divorce. Diana and Charles were public figures and their problems went unfixed and therefore it all spilled into the public atmosphere.

Yes, I know this thread is about Diana and not Charles and Camilla. I'm just pointing out that I think it's important to remain fair and balanced when talking about the Waleses marital problems. It's good that we can have a discussion about this, although this topic have been beaten across the head way too many times, it's all in the past and the surviving parties have long moved on.

From what I've seen on the forums, when the Waleses marriage comes up, it's all about what Diana did and what Diana said. Diana, Diana, Diana. If one didn't know any better, you'd think Diana was in the marriage alone and destroyed all by herself. It took two people to tango in that marriage and they both wrecked it. They didn't get any professional help for their crumbling marriage and things got out of hand. They argued, cheated and their friends took sides; instead of coming together and lending help to the couple. The media also added a great deal of pressure on them and everything fell apart. They did that together. Not one over the other.

As for the relationship between Diana and her stepmother-I can't comment too much on that. Diana was wrong to push her or anyone else, if that is what really happened. No one is making any excuses for Diana's actions. They seemed to have made up in the end and moved on.

Yes, Diana slapped her father. She admitted that on video. She was hurt for what her father did. From where I come from, you raise your hand at your mother or father, you'd better run. Diana shouldn't have done that.

No, Charles (not to my knowledge) ever pushed or slapped either of his parents but he sure did throw them under the bus in his biography written by, Jonathan Dimbleby.
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  #902  
Old 09-12-2014, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
US Royal Watcher,

From what I understand, Diana didn't like her friends criticizing and talking bad about Charles much. She felt that, it was her husband and if anyone was going to bash him, she would do it. It wasn't right for her to bash Charles and it wasn't right for Charles to treat Diana badly. That all happened because they were hurt and angry at the time. Royal or not, in some cases, this happens when couples are going through a bad separation and divorce. Diana and Charles were public figures and their problems went unfixed and therefore it all spilled into the public atmosphere.

This is what I am talking about. Do you have a source that says Diana didn't like her friends criticizing and talking bad about Charles (much)? In fact, Diana's friends did criticize and talk bad about Charles, with Diana's express approval. Andrew Morton's book, Diana, her True Story, lists several of Diana's friends as sources (James Gilbey, Carolyn Bartholomew, Stephen Twigg, etc...).

I agree that she probably preferred to talk to the media herself because she could better control the message, but it's a fact that she authorized her friends to criticize Charles media

There are several threads to discuss Diana and Charles's marriage.

Quote:

No, Charles (not to my knowledge) ever pushed or slapped either of his parents but he sure did throw them under the bus in his biography written by, Jonathan Dimbleby.
I almost let this go but I can't in good conscience. It is important to stand up against domestic violence whenever anyone chooses to minimize it.

There is a big difference between hitting someone and publicly criticizing someone. That is the reason that violence is a crime but public criticism is not. Slapping her father was wrong PERIOD. Nothing Charles did justifies Diana's violence towards her father and probably towards her step-mother.

It continues to amaze me how much Diana's fans will overlook in order to justify their adoration. It's ridiculous how much they try to drag Charles down in order to build Diana up.
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  #903  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:14 PM
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Several of their friends did do their dirty work on their behalf. I think it was the wrong thing to do and I think if they were true friends, they would've did everything they could to help them and not enable their bad behaviors.

I think royal reporters and correspondents, Judy Wade and Ingrid Seward, among others have mentioned in old interviews that Diana didn't like her friends to bash Charles publicly much. They did but only when she allowed them to. Also, she didn't like them talking bad about him in her presence.
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  #904  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:28 PM
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I didn't say Charles throwing his parents under the bus in his bio justified Diana slapping her father and possibly pushing her step-mother. I fully stated that what Diana did was wrong in expressing her hurt and anger in that way.

I'm just saying that both Diana and Charles treated their parents badly and place the blame of their marriage failures on them.

Also, yes, I'm a Diana fan but I have not or will ever make any excuses for Diana's bad behavior. Somehow you and others think if someone is a fan of hers, that automatically mean I or others will make endless excuses for her silly actions. She made mistakes and wasn't no angle but I won't try to trash her and make it seem like her actions alone brought down her marriage and Charles and Camilla was the innocent party that was badly damaged by Diana's behavior. They all did dirty things and I'll continue to be fair and balanced when discussing that old drama.

I'm also a fan of Charles and Camilla but I'll never try to bash Diana just to build them up..unlike some others. They all did crazy things back in the day, so they very idea of building any of them up and tearing another down is just plan stupid, IMO.
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  #905  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:32 PM
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There is no evidence that Charles had any of his friends do his "dirty work," although some did criticize Diana.

Regarding Diana's statements about criticizing Charles, that rings true. Diana was a mass of contradictions and deception. She could authorize her friends to talk with Andrew Morton Charles one minute and in the next, tell a reporter that she didn't like to hear him criticized.
  #906  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I didn't say Charles throwing his parents under the bus in his bio justified Diana slapping her father and possibly pushing her step-mother. I fully stated that what Diana did was wrong in expressing her hurt and anger in that way.

I'm just saying that both Diana and Charles treated their parents badly and place the blame of their marriage failures on them.
You said that Diana slapping her father was wrong--which was fine. But why mention Charles at all except to try and create a false equivalency. between Diana's violence and Charles's criticism. It isn't the same thing. Leave Charles out of the discussion about Diana's violence against both her father and her step-mother.

A more apt comparison would have been the two authorized biographies. Yes, Charles may have been wrong in criticizing his parents, but Diana also criticized her parents in the Morton book. Funny how you never mentioned that.
  #907  
Old 09-12-2014, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
There is no evidence that Charles had any of his friends do his "dirty work," although some did criticize Diana.

Regarding Diana's statements about criticizing Charles, that rings true. Diana was a mass of contradictions and deception. She could authorize her friends to talk with Andrew Morton Charles one minute and in the next, tell a reporter that she didn't like to hear him criticized.
US Royal Watcher, I'm glad that we can talk about this stuff like adults.

It was crazy time for Diana and Charles and they both were hurt in the process. I just wish they had got some kind of counseling during that painful time. I know their royal duties was important but I think they needed to take some time off and get things together. Even if they couldn't save their marriage, it would've been wonderful if they came to an understanding early on and ended things peacefully and for the sake of William & Harry. Sadly when they were fully able to do so, Diana died soon after. They were finally establishing a friendship and peace and that side of their relationship wasn't brought forward to the public. The only side of Diana and Charles the public and authors like writing about is the "War of the Waleses." I just think that's sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
You said that Diana slapping her father was wrong--which was fine. But why mention Charles at all except to try and create a false equivalency. between Diana's violence and Charles's criticism. It isn't the same thing. Leave Charles out of the discussion about Diana's violence against both her father and her step-mother.

A more apt comparison would have been the two authorized biographies. Yes, Charles may have been wrong in criticizing his parents, but Diana also criticized her parents in the Morton book. Funny how you never mentioned that.
Yes, I forgot to mention that but, yes, Diana did criticize her parents in the Morton book too. It's funny how she and Charles wanted to place the blame on their parents instead of owning up to their own behavior.
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  #908  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:24 PM
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Some of the things that hold a marriage together are taking responsibility for one's actions, being able to genuinely say "I'm sorry", and being able to put the other person first even when it's difficult. This is how mature, loving persons behave.

I do remember reading somewhere--I'm sorry that I can't remember the source--that a friend of Diana's said something critical of Charles, whereupon Diana replied in a disapproving way about her friend's comment.

I think that one of the tragedies of Diana's life was that she didn't know what she truly wanted, except that she wanted to be loved unconditionally. Perhaps she thought that if she were free of her marriage, she would find this love. Unfortunately, she didn't count the cost of doing what she did to separate from Prince Charles. She's been accused of being a schemer, but I don't know. To me, she seemed to be more impulsive than anything--doing things but then regretting them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Yes, I forgot to mention that but, yes, Diana did criticize her parents in the Morton book too. It's funny how she and Charles wanted to place the blame on their parents instead of owning up to their own behavior.
  #909  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
There is no evidence that Charles had any of his friends do his "dirty work," although some did criticize Diana.
Really?
Fatty Soames
Joan Rivers
Camilla Parker-Bowles
Penny Junor
Are 4 examples enough or shall I cite more? I can quote from each of them as extensively as you would like.

I am going to say it again. NO ONE briefs on behalf of HRH PoW without the approval of HRH PoW. Whatever Camilla, Fatty etc fed the media was approved by HRH Pow.
  #910  
Old 09-13-2014, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I think that one of the tragedies of Diana's life was that she didn't know what she truly wanted, except that she wanted to be loved unconditionally.
Maybe this is why she felt she got along better with the "ordinary" people than with nobles and royals? People "in the street" would be much more inclined to look up to her adoringly and be grateful if she talked to them. The royals were of her own level so they didn't need to look up and be grateful, so maybe this felt as "no love"?
  #911  
Old 09-13-2014, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Really?
Fatty Soames
Joan Rivers
Camilla Parker-Bowles
Penny Junor
Are 4 examples enough or shall I cite more? I can quote from each of them as extensively as you would like.

I am going to say it again. NO ONE briefs on behalf of HRH PoW without the approval of HRH PoW. Whatever Camilla, Fatty etc fed the media was approved by HRH Pow.
Please explain what Joan Rivers is doing in your list? And what is Ms Camilla Shand formerly Parker Bowles doing in your list?
  #912  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Really?
Fatty Soames
Joan Rivers
Camilla Parker-Bowles
Penny Junor
Are 4 examples enough or shall I cite more? I can quote from each of them as extensively as you would like.

I am going to say it again. NO ONE briefs on behalf of HRH PoW without the approval of HRH PoW. Whatever Camilla, Fatty etc fed the media was approved by HRH Pow.
Sources please ...
  #913  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:27 AM
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The late Joan Rivers did make fun of Diana a lot and mocked Diana's bulimia nervosa. Sir Nicholas Soames, did criticize Diana on live TV and called her "paranoid" back in the day. All you have to do is read Penny Junor's books about what she really thought about Diana. Camilla's camp did criticize Diana back in the day. Diana's camp also criticized Camilla and Charles.

For some crazy reasons Diana and Charles's camps didn't help the couple in their time of need. They enabled their behavior's and thought that was best.
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  #914  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The late Joan Rivers did make fun of Diana a lot and mocked Diana's bulimia nervosa. Sir Nicholas Soames, did criticize Diana on live TV and called her "paranoid" back in the day. All you have to do is read Penny Junor's books about what she really thought about Diana. Camilla's camp did criticize Diana back in the day. Diana's camp also criticized Camilla and Charles.

For some crazy reasons Diana and Charles's camps didn't help the couple in their time of need. They enabled their behavior's and thought that was best.
I see but Joan Rivers did make some nasty jokes about Charles as well. I know they became friends (much later btw) but including her in the "Charles's camp list" is a bit far fetched.
To see Charle's approval in any criticism about the late Princess of Wales in the 90's is a bit extreme ...
  #915  
Old 09-13-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
I see but Joan Rivers did make some nasty jokes about Charles as well. I know they became friends (much later btw) but including her in the "Charles's camp list" is a bit far fetched.
To see Charle's approval in any criticism about the late Princess of Wales in the 90's is a bit extreme ...
Yes, I know Joan and Charles became friends a little later. She did make fun of both Charles and Camilla but whenever she'd talk nicely of them, she would go on and put Diana down. Then again, that was Joan.
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  #916  
Old 09-13-2014, 10:15 AM
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