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  #421  
Old 06-14-2013, 06:40 PM
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Rather OT but it would be interesting to see how Diana was perceived and in particulary where. It seems to me that Diana was, and still, considered as a major spotless and untouchable legend in the US thanks to the celebrity status she gained over there. On the contrary there is a more european point a view , far more critical and less tender with the life and acts of the late princess .
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  #422  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I thought this thread was about Diana - her character and the different things she was interested in - not a rehash of times past.
Thatīs true, but to really understand the character and decisions of a person we have to look at the Biography and the times they lived in so that we can understand why they behaved the way that they did and how they became who they are. Looking at people without respecting the biographical or historical context would be a little bit shallow, we would not get the motives & reasoning behind their actions and ideas.
Thatīs what I feel like, but I donīt mind if anyone sees it differently:-)
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  #423  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Rather OT but it would be interesting to see how Diana was perceived and in particulary where. It seems to me that Diana was, and still, considered as a major spotless and untouchable legend in the US thanks to the celebrity status she gained over there. On the contrary there is a more european point a view , far more critical and less tender with the life and acts of the late princess .
I have lived in UK for a year and to most women I have talked to she is still an inspiration and they get gloomy eyes when they talk about Diana.
Most often people mention her beauty and her compassion and the charity efforts which created this image of a "secular saint".
Women enjoy talking about her kindness and also about her clothes, especially the wedding dress...
To me it seems as if there are two sections (of course,there are also people in between or people who donīt care):
1)Diana admirers who treat her like a saint and love her as if she was part of their own family, these are the ones who often attack Camilla and Charles verbally
2)Diana haters who believe she was manipulative and she just used the press for creating a positive image and had a devastating impact on the Royal family

I would say that we should try to get a balanced view and see both sides. Her negatives that were most visible during the divorce:Trying to make Charles look bad and using the media to insult the BRF (through interviews, creating the image that Charles does not care about his children) & the positives:Loving,caring,compassionate mother + humanitarian who had the ability to really listen to people, she brought happiness to people who were suffering or lived in difficult times (homelessness,illness,depression,war)...

I do not know if people in the USA see her different,but they did not have to read so much bad stuff and rumours about the Diana & the BRF like the British people did. The tabloids created a lot of stupid stories and used Diana & Charles to sell more papers.
Thatīs why people outside the UK may have a different view on Diana because we did not have to read so much crap and therefore we rather have the positive images of her in our minds.
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Avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing
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  #424  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Thatīs true, but to really understand the character and decisions of a person we have to look at the Biography and the times they lived in so that we can understand why they behaved the way that they did and how they became who they are. Looking at people without respecting the biographical or historical context would be a little bit shallow, we would not get the motives & reasoning behind their actions and ideas.
Thatīs what I feel like, but I donīt mind if anyone sees it differently:-)
I agree. And to be aware of the challenges that faced her, and the way she chose to respond to those challenges. She needs to be considered in the context of the particular circumstances of her life.
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  #425  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Rather OT but it would be interesting to see how Diana was perceived and in particulary where. It seems to me that Diana was, and still, considered as a major spotless and untouchable legend in the US thanks to the celebrity status she gained over there. On the contrary there is a more european point a view , far more critical and less tender with the life and acts of the late princess .
There is some truth to what you say. US People magazine used to put her face on the cover as often as possible and it always sold well even if the story was largely nothing. I am sure after Baby C is born the glossies will slap her face on the covers once more and run stories about what a grandmother she would have been and if the child is a daughter with Diana in her name they will be delirious with all the stories they could rehash.
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  #426  
Old 06-16-2013, 03:38 AM
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The U.S. fasination with Diana began because of the media hype.

They declared her 85% British & 15% American.
This fueled the she's one of us. An American marrying a prince.
The new Princess Grace.

They almost always called her Princess Diana.

They wrote mostly favorable stories about her and praised her for what the royal family did naturally.

There were new magazines launched around her marriage into the royal family so they filled their magazines with stories about her.
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  #427  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
I have lived in UK for a year and to most women I have talked to she is still an inspiration and they get gloomy eyes when they talk about Diana.
Most often people mention her beauty and her compassion and the charity efforts which created this image of a "secular saint".
Women enjoy talking about her kindness and also about her clothes, especially the wedding dress...
To me it seems as if there are two sections (of course,there are also people in between or people who donīt care):
1)Diana admirers who treat her like a saint and love her as if she was part of their own family, these are the ones who often attack Camilla and Charles verbally
2)Diana haters who believe she was manipulative and she just used the press for creating a positive image and had a devastating impact on the Royal family
Her negatives that were most visible during the divorce:Trying to make Charles look bad and using the media to insult the BRF (through interviews, creating the image that Charles does not care about his children) & the positives:Loving,caring,compassionate mother + humanitarian who had the ability to really listen to people, she brought happiness to people who were suffering or lived in difficult times (homelessness,illness,depression,war)...
You very well brought out the general public perception of Diana.I just cant help but notice once again in your post what I have always thought..her beauty, her dresses, her wedding dress..These are just what attracted people to Diana. And her "charity" is just an excuse we give ourselves to escape the guilt of "superficiality"..
And tell me which Royal woman of her generation didnt do charity work..Who gives a damn for that.Of course the more beautiful and media-courting one is, the more she can be photographed with sick kids and splashed on front pages..
And "caring, compassionate" mother..Every mother is caring and compassionate in her own way. That doesnt make her any special.And I would say she was a rather crazy, dumb, foolish, zero-brains mother who threatened her own son's future (almost destroyed it), and if not for the past 15 years of hard-work put by the BRF, her son would never be as secure as he is today..
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  #428  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
I have lived in UK for a year and to most women I have talked to she is still an inspiration and they get gloomy eyes when they talk about Diana.
Most often people mention her beauty and her compassion and the charity efforts which created this image of a "secular saint".
Women enjoy talking about her kindness and also about her clothes, especially the wedding dress...
To me it seems as if there are two sections (of course,there are also people in between or people who donīt care):
1)Diana admirers who treat her like a saint and love her as if she was part of their own family, these are the ones who often attack Camilla and Charles verbally
2)Diana haters who believe she was manipulative and she just used the press for creating a positive image and had a devastating impact on the Royal family

I would say that we should try to get a balanced view and see both sides. Her negatives that were most visible during the divorce:Trying to make Charles look bad and using the media to insult the BRF (through interviews, creating the image that Charles does not care about his children) & the positives:Loving,caring,compassionate mother + humanitarian who had the ability to really listen to people, she brought happiness to people who were suffering or lived in difficult times (homelessness,illness,depression,war)...

I do not know if people in the USA see her different,but they did not have to read so much bad stuff and rumours about the Diana & the BRF like the British people did. The tabloids created a lot of stupid stories and used Diana & Charles to sell more papers.
Thatīs why people outside the UK may have a different view on Diana because we did not have to read so much crap and therefore we rather have the positive images of her in our minds.


There may also be a group of those who, like myself, believe that Camilla is now and always has been a more suitable match for Charles than was Diana. Camilla seems to embody for him the multi role of mother/nanny/ nurse/girlfriend/companion/confidente/fantasy/mistress/wife. HOWEVER, Charles opted for marriage with a girl 13 years his junior and a virgin knowing that there wasn't room for her to fulfil any of the afore mentioned roles because the position was filled, but had Diana had all this pointed out to her, at 19, with no life experience, she would never have believed that Charles would have preferred an "old" woman to the freshness of a young girl. Every book written by her step grandmother, which she eagerly devoured, told her that the handsome older man/duke/earl/lord/PRINCE always married the young and beautiful girl. How devastating then for her dreams to be shattered when she finally realized that the thing about her he prized most was her womb. I think she exhausted herself mentally and psychologically by rushing around doing all these good works partly for the pleasure it gave her but equally for the love it earned her. It was her way of trying to make Charles proud of her and hopefully, love her. Most of us who experience marriage breakdown are able to avoid much of the pain and humiliation because we have the luxury of privacy. Diana's broke down thanks to voracious media frenzy, in the full glare of the world.

I'm delighted that Charles now has the woman he has always wanted by his side, although I question whether Camilla might not have been happier to have remained his mistress. Our RF has never seemed more comfortable with itself than it does now as it waits eagerly for the birth of a future sovereign. I, however can't forget that one of this baby's grandparents who should be there, will not be. I've heard it said that she "set out to catch him." I wonder how it is possible for a young girl to force the heir to the throne to marry her. IMO, there was only one way by which she could have avoided the unhappiness which was to follow and that would have been to refuse his proposal of marriage.
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  #429  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
... I've heard it said that she "set out to catch him." I wonder how it is possible for a young girl to force the heir to the throne to marry her. IMO, there was only one way by which she could have avoided the unhappiness which was to follow and that would have been to refuse his proposal of marriage.
I'm very much with you in great parts of what you write.

But to that Quote of yours: She set very much out to catch him, by pretending to enjoy same things as he enjoyed (like the highlands, his green and enviromental ideas, gardening, horses, country live, classical music, deep book, etc) but in reality she loathed all those things and prefered London and it's attractions over country life. She decieved him in that ... he wouldn't have asked her, if he hadn't thought, that they suit eachother.
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  #430  
Old 06-17-2013, 10:14 AM
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The late Princess of Wales did a pretty good job as a senior member of the royal family and future Queen, IMO. She supported The Prince of Wales in his role as future King with the best of her ability. She was young but she got on with the job. Accompanied Charles on official engagements around the UK and Commonwealth and she took her royal role rather seriously.

Diana, did enjoy country life, she pretty much grew up in the country. She like Sandringham more because she was born on the estate at Park House. Diana didn't like the royal hunts, although she did kill a stag but cried afterwards. She enjoyed classical music and was taught to play classical pieces when she was a little girl in school. A talent that never left her. She also loved the Opera. If Diana & Charles was at Kensington Palace and famed tenor, Luciano Pavarotti was performing, they both would go over and watch him, even in the rain.

Diana didn't like horses much, mainly due to her falling off a horse as a child.
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  #431  
Old 06-17-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Diana, did enjoy country life, she pretty much grew up in the country. She like Sandringham more because she was born on the estate at Park House. Diana didn't like the royal hunts, although she did kill a stag but cried afterwards.
I am sorry but in the Words of my Grandmother... Oh WAN! WAN! WAN! Boo Hoo Hoo! Get over it and quite being a crybaby lol
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  #432  
Old 06-17-2013, 11:28 AM
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Well, not everyone is very into hunting and don't like the idea killing animals. I don't think anyone should make fun of someone because they felt bad about making a kill like that.

If it's not for you, I would suggest not participating in the sport and Diana didn't participate after all that. That was her choice.
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  #433  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The late Princess of Wales did a pretty good job as a senior member of the royal family and future Queen, IMO. She supported The Prince of Wales in his role as future King with the best of her ability. She was young but she got on with the job. Accompanied Charles on official engagements around the UK and Commonwealth and she took her royal role rather seriously.

Diana, did enjoy country life, she pretty much grew up in the country. She like Sandringham more because she was born on the estate at Park House. Diana didn't like the royal hunts, although she did kill a stag but cried afterwards. She enjoyed classical music and was taught to play classical pieces when she was a little girl in school. A talent that never left her. She also loved the Opera. If Diana & Charles was at Kensington Palace and famed tenor, Luciano Pavarotti was performing, they both would go over and watch him, even in the rain.

Diana didn't like horses much, mainly due to her falling off a horse as a child.
I agree that Diana did well in the public eye, but I disagree that she did well as a member of the royal family. My understanding is that supporting members of the royal family are not supposed to outshine the Queen or the Prince of Wales. Diana did-and she continued to purposely outshine the Queen and Charles even though she knew it was hurting their marriage.

I think Diana and Charles deceived themselves as much as they deceived each other. Charles deceived himself into thinking that he could make Diana happy even though he wasn't in love with her. He should have explicitly spelled it out and let Diana make the decision.

For Diana's part, I think she had a crush on the Prince of Wales, but wasn't really in love with Charles. She was young and had a romanticized view of him. Some people think he should have realized that but, although she was a bit giggly, she was also polished and refined. She had grown up around the royal family and surrounded by wealth.

I think he truly thought it could work, but the biggest problem is that they didn't have much in common because I strongly disagree that Diana enjoyed country life. I think it was fine as an occasional change of pace, but she really preferred being in the city and going out to nightclubs and shopping.

During the courtship, I think she convinced herself that she could be happy fishing, hunting, hiking, having quiet dinners with his friends, and watching him play polo. However, I have to acknowledge that she did not deceiver herself about enjoying polo, she hated it and knew it. Charles didn't know that. If he had, there probably wouldn't have been a first date much less a marriage.

Regardless, she was a very fascinating woman and she raised a lot of money for charity. But, as others note, every member of the royal family raises money for charities, and Diana had pretty much retired from charitable work soon after her separation.

She was an affectionate mother, but I don't think she was a good mother. It was inappropriate for her to use William and Harry to generate photo ops, and it was really inappropriate for her to use William as a confidant. She never considered the impact her public attacks on Charles had on her children. Some people tend to try and create a false equivalence, but Charles never publicly criticized Diana, and even told his friends to refrain from attacking her. I'm sure there were some exceptions, but most of the war was waged by Diana.

The real fascination was her beauty, clothes, and charisma. She truly drew people in, and people will probably continue to talk about her for at least another 10 years.
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  #434  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

I agree that Diana did well in the public eye, but I disagree that she did well as a member of the royal family. My understanding is that supporting members of the royal family are not supposed to outshine the Queen or the Prince of Wales. Diana did-and she continued to purposely outshine the Queen and Charles even though she knew it was hurting their marriage.

I think Diana and Charles deceived themselves as much as they deceived each other. Charles deceived himself into thinking that he could make Diana happy even though he wasn't in love with her. He should have explicitly spelled it out and let Diana make the decision.

For Diana's part, I think she had a crush on the Prince of Wales, but wasn't really in love with Charles. She was young and had a romanticized view of him. Some people think he should have realized that but, although she was a bit giggly, she was also polished and refined. She had grown up around the royal family and surrounded by wealth.

I think he truly thought it could work, but the biggest problem is that they didn't have much in common because I strongly disagree that Diana enjoyed country life. I think it was fine as an occasional change of pace, but she really preferred being in the city and going out to nightclubs and shopping.

During the courtship, I think she convinced herself that she could be happy fishing, hunting, hiking, having quiet dinners with his friends, and watching him play polo. However, I have to acknowledge that she did not deceiver herself about enjoying polo, she hated it and knew it. Charles didn't know that. If he had, there probably wouldn't have been a first date much less a marriage.

Regardless, she was a very fascinating woman and she raised a lot of money for charity. But, as others note, every member of the royal family raises money for charities, and Diana had pretty much retired from charitable work soon after her separation.

She was an affectionate mother, but I don't think she was a good mother. It was inappropriate for her to use William and Harry to generate photo ops, and it was really inappropriate for her to use William as a confidant. She never considered the impact her public attacks on Charles had on her children. Some people tend to try and create a false equivalence, but Charles never publicly criticized Diana, and even told his friends to refrain from attacking her. I'm sure there were some exceptions
, but most of the war was waged by Diana

The real fascination was her beauty, clothes, and charisma. She truly drew people in, and people will probably continue to talk about her for at least another 10 years.
I agree with most of everything you said here. One thing I never like was How Diana use her kids to vent about and Attack Charles!! That was
inappropriate and out of line my opinion, Diana never realize how that could have a bad effect on Kids and That can ruin/lower a child self esteem. Charles never Criticizes Diana there might have been a few exception but he never did what Diana and I am sure Charles never went to William and Harry and told them that Diana was a Cheater and sleeping with James Hewitt on the Side.

And no one should outshine the Queen, But I think Diana did it Deliberately for attention.

That all for now, I have grown to dislike Diana less and less over the Years especially after coming to this site and the 1995 interview and the Morton book.
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  #435  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:26 PM
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Diana really couldn't help that she was young, beautiful and had a nice wardrobe. Charles did take an interest in her clothes and wanted her to look good too. Her fashion was part of the job. Now it's being celebrated alongside The Queen's and Princess Margaret's. Also, used to dress like her mother in the early years of her marriage. It took her awhile to realize she was beautiful and gain some confidence in herself. Her wardrobe was part of that process.

I actually believe Charles & Diana did love each other and their love help produce William & Harry. They loved their family life at Kensington Palace and Highgrove and they really wanted things to work out. Both Charles & Diana agreed that they wanted to give their children the lives they didn't have. Sadly, the marriage fell apart, it sucks but it happens.

Going through a separation and divorce isn't an easy process and it can produce some nasty feelings on both parties. Diana was upset and so was Charles and they both did things they shouldn't have. Diana help write a book and help let the cat out of the bag, Charles did an interview and admitted adultery and a year later Diana did the samething. Charles's friends did some dirty work and so did Diana's. They both were equally at fault and the media didn't help things.

I truly think Diana respected the royal institution and tried (along with Charles) to help their children understand their future destinies. She made her mistakes but she wasn't alone in doing so. I think it's unfair to her and her memory for other to put so much blame on her when it took two (and Camilla of course) to bring a marriage down.

It's old news now and there's nothing can be done to change the past. I prefer to move on and remember the great work Diana did and the love and affection she gave to William & Harry.
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  #436  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:30 PM
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Diana really couldn't help that she was young, beautiful and had a nice wardrobe. Charles did take an interest in her clothes and wanted her to look good too. Her fashion was part of the job. Now it's being celebrated alongside The Queen's and Princess Margaret's. Also, used to dress like her mother in the early years of her marriage. It took her awhile to realize she was beautiful and gain some confidence in herself. Her wardrobe was part of that process.

I actually believe Charles & Diana did love each other and their love help produce William & Harry. They loved their family life at Kensington Palace and Highgrove and they really wanted things to work out. Both Charles & Diana agreed that they wanted to give their children the lives they didn't have. Sadly, the marriage fell apart, it sucks but it happens.

Going through a separation and divorce isn't an easy process and it can produce some nasty feelings on both parties. Diana was upset and so was Charles and they both did things they shouldn't have. Diana help write a book and help let the cat out of the bag, Charles did an interview and admitted adultery and a year later Diana did the samething. Charles's friends did some dirty work and so did Diana's. They both were equally at fault and the media didn't help things.

I truly think Diana respected the royal institution and tried (along with Charles) to help their children understand their future destinies. She made her mistakes but she wasn't alone in doing so. I think it's unfair to her and her memory for other to put so much blame on her when it took two (and Camilla) to bring a marriage down.

It's old news now and there's nothing can be done to change the past. I prefer to move on and remember the great work Diana did and the love and affection she gave to William & Harry.
It would be interesting to to be around 100-200 years from now to hear what people's have to say. It will be different then the current generation because it still in recent memory (bit Distant)
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  #437  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:06 PM
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It would be interesting to to be around 100-200 years from now to hear what people's have to say. It will be different then the current generation because it still in recent memory (bit Distant)
I just hope in the future people don't think the only way to build Camilla up and recognize her great contribution to the Monarchy is to knock Diana down. I think it's okay to recognize both Diana & Camilla's special qualities without putting one or the other down because in reality, all three of them made some bad mistakes and help make the Monarchy look bad.
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  #438  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:25 PM
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I just hope in the future people don't think the only way to build Camilla up and recognize her great contribution to the Monarchy is to knock Diana down. I think it's okay to recognize both Diana & Camilla's special qualities without putting one or the other down because in reality, all three of them made some bad mistakes and help make the Monarchy look bad.
Agree. I am not a fan of Diana but I agree she did do some good things but I never agreed with most things she did or said. I am sorry that William and Harry had to loose their mother at a young age. Obviously Parents are not going to live forever but in my opinion Kids shouldn't have to lose their parents when they are still young but there nothing you can do about it, I think Diana would be happy with how William and Harry today and probably would like Kate.

This is of topic but I wanted to add:

Catherine for the most part has adjusted will to the Royal life and Has done good when handling the media. But at the same She was older then Diana when she married Will and also they had dated on and off for 8 Years so she was prepared. Also her parents probably helped her also a little bit as they were around when Diana Wasserstein alive.
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  #439  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
But to that Quote of yours: She set very much out to catch him, by pretending to enjoy same things as he enjoyed (like the highlands, his green and enviromental ideas, gardening, horses, country live, classical music, deep book, etc) but in reality she loathed all those things and prefered London and it's attractions over country life. She decieved him in that ... he wouldn't have asked her, if he hadn't thought, that they suit eachother.

I agree!
Diana pretended to share his interests, when she really didn't. In truth they were opposites.

OTOH, Charles is also at fault because he didn't take the time to get to know the real Diana. He took her at face value, and trusted to luck that things would all work out in the end. So he was partly to blame when they didn't.

Diana had many flaws, but I think she was her own worst enemy.
I don't believe she had much happiness in her life.
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  #440  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:08 PM
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I think everything happens for a reason and I also believe in destiny. I think Diana & Charles was meant to meet, marry and have children. Even though the marriage didn't last, I think there was a purpose to it. We wouldn't have William & Harry if they didn't get together.

I like taking the time to appreciate their short union and not just focusing on the bad. I think Charles also thank Diana for giving him the two men he's so proud of and clearly adore.
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