Did Charles have a relationship with Tiggy?

[Elspeth]

You'd think, from reading the thread, that the poll would be almost unanimous in saying that there was no affair, but it looks as though it's about two-thirds (no affair) to one-third (affair). Perhaps some of the people who think Charles and Tiggy had an affair could chime in with their reasons.

[Roslyn]

I don't think they did, either before or after the divorce. Apart from the fact that it has never occurred to me that they might have had a relationship, I don't think Charles would have had a relationship with a member of staff, Camilla was on the scene and after everything they'd been through I don't think Charles would have jeopardised that relationship for a fling with Tiggy even if he fancied her, the photos aren't conclusive, and I am not aware of any credible evidence that they did.

[tinkerbell1948]

I agree ............Camilla was a constant in his life for over 30 years. I don't think by then he would have even considered anyone else . I think Diana dying prevented he and Camilla from going "public" with their relationship sooner than they did even if people knew it was happening it was "kept under wraps"

Of course this is just my "gut instinct" without any facts to back it up but why would he even consider a "fling" or "affair" with Tiggy given the tumultuous previous years?

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

You'd think, from reading the thread, that the poll would be almost unanimous in saying that there was no affair, but it looks as though it's about two-thirds (no affair) to one-third (affair). Perhaps some of the people who think Charles and Tiggy had an affair could chime in with their reasons.

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question? And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

[cde]

Personally I am on the fence for the following reasons- Camilla was known to be jealous of Tiggy. I think Camilla knows Charles pretty well and I don't think she would have been jealous without some good reason. Besides, I seriously doubt Charles having a fling with Tiggy would have jeopardized his relationship with Camilla. Camilla was used to Charles not being faithful before she and Charles married. Although IMO she doesn't any longer.

[georgiea]

I read in one of my Princess Diana biographies that Prince Charles falls in and out of love very easily. Diana's sister, Sarah, told the press that Charles can love someone very easily. He strikes me as being fickled about woman. I just wonder when the palace gave him an ultimatium about Camilla, during his separation, that he tried dating Tiggy. She is young, pretty, blonde, aristocratic background, loved and took care of his children and most important loved the outdoors and hunting.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question? And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

I don't think Elspeth had a preconceived conclusion and besides if she had Elspeth was in New Orleans and her mind far away from here when I created the thread based on some pictures that zhontella provided.

Enough people thought the pictures were interesting enough for a discussion, that's all it is.

I simply think that Elspeth was pointing out that while all the responses in the thread pointed to no affair, 1/3 of the poll votes pointed to there being an affair and she was inviting those who voted that there was an affair to share their opinions with the rest of us.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

First of all, if you had a preconcieved conclusion, why ask the question?

I don't, and I didn't. ysbel asked the question based on a discussion in another thread. As she pointed out, I was just saying that the thread so far is very one-sided, which led me to believe that the vote in the poll would be similarly one-sided, and so I was surprised to see that quite a few people had voted the other way. I was just asking those people if they'd also contribute to the thread so we could hear opinions on both sides.

And, although, many have stated their opinions, there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

Hence ysbel's wording of the poll. She wasn't asking if people thought there was enough evidence to be certain; she was asking what people believed, based on the amount of evidence that actually exists.

Hope that helps to clarify things.

[judith14011]

A quote from the Tina Brown book re:Tiggy at the end. It seems that there was some jealousy on Camilla's part over Tiggy. Another reference Ms. Brown made was that "Camilla's people" put pressure on the POW to maintain his relationship with her after the divorce. Camilla's late father, Major Bruce Shand was very public about Charles' obligation to publicly "clarify" his relationship with Camilla, who, rightly or wrongly (in my opinion rightly), took a lot of heat for the demise of the Wales' marriage.



But now in the year after her divorce, relations with Prince Charles were on a nicely even keel, starting with that tea in July. The arrival in 1996 of Mark Bolland as Charles’s assistant private secretary inaugurated an era of glasnost between the offices of the Princess and the Prince. Bolland was a shrewd go–to guy with a marketing background and a useful four years of experience as director of the Press Complaints Commission. He lived in the real world, not the Palace bubble. He owed his job to Camilla; he had come to Charles at the recommendation of her divorce lawyer, Hilary Browne Wilkinson. In spite of that—or more likely because of it—part of his writ was to end the War between the Waleses. It got in the way, he believed, of the necessary rebuilding of Prince Charles’s image. Bolland’s first act was to persuade Charles to fire his private secretary, Commander Richard Aylard, the facilitator of the Dimbleby fiasco, and rid the Prince’s office of holdovers from the bitter years of marital competition. Nor was Bolland a fan of the undislodgeable Tiggy Legge-Bourke, sharing Camilla’s belief that Tiggy spent a lot of her time “winding Charles up.” Another positive augury, surely

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

...there is absolutely no concrete evidence that they didn't. Charles knew how to do things discreetly, if he wanted to. He wasn't a fool. There, of course, is no concrete evidence that they did, either. As I said before, all supposition. No one can prove anything either way.

I am in full agreement with Countess. It is impossible to conclusively determine whether the relationship in question took place or not.

Originally Posted by cde

Personally I am on the fence for the following reasons- Camilla was known to be jealous of Tiggy. I think Camilla knows Charles pretty well and I don't think she would have been jealous without some good reason. Besides, I seriously doubt Charles having a fling with Tiggy would have jeopardized his relationship with Camilla. Camilla was used to Charles not being faithful before she and Charles married. Although IMO she doesn't any longer.

Originally Posted by judith14011

A quote from the Tina Brown book re:Tiggy at the end. It seems that there was some jealousy on Camilla's part over Tiggy. Another reference Ms. Brown made was that "Camilla's people" put pressure on the POW to maintain his relationship with her after the divorce. Camilla's late father, Major Bruce Shand was very public about Charles' obligation to publicly "clarify" his relationship with Camilla, who, rightly or wrongly (in my opinion rightly), took a lot of heat for the demise of the Wales' marriage.

But now in the year after her divorce, relations with Prince Charles were on a nicely even keel, starting with that tea in July. The arrival in 1996 of Mark Bolland as Charles’s assistant private secretary inaugurated an era of glasnost between the offices of the Princess and the Prince. Bolland was a shrewd go–to guy with a marketing background and a useful four years of experience as director of the Press Complaints Commission. He lived in the real world, not the Palace bubble. He owed his job to Camilla; he had come to Charles at the recommendation of her divorce lawyer, Hilary Browne Wilkinson. In spite of that—or more likely because of it—part of his writ was to end the War between the Waleses. It got in the way, he believed, of the necessary rebuilding of Prince Charles’s image. Bolland’s first act was to persuade Charles to fire his private secretary, Commander Richard Aylard, the facilitator of the Dimbleby fiasco, and rid the Prince’s office of holdovers from the bitter years of marital competition. Nor was Bolland a fan of the undislodgeable Tiggy Legge-Bourke, sharing Camilla’s belief that Tiggy spent a lot of her time “winding Charles up.” Another positive augury, surely

[my bolding]
The above is rather an interesting development "Duchess of Cornwall feared competition". I have found it shocking that Prince Charles disrespects women so much, even the love of his life. I am surprised that Mr. Bolland decided to get rid of Ms Legge-Bourke. Afterall, she was not a big fan of Princess Diana. It would be fair to assume that Duchess of Cornwall expressed a desire to get rid of everything and everybody "from the bitter years of marital competition"(judith14011, 2007) as she intended to rebuild the family nest for Prince Charles.

[Lady-in-waiting25]

Originally Posted by love_cc

I don't think Prince Charles had a love affair with Tiggy. Even she is a family friend, she was still under the employment as his boys' nanny. I don't think he would ever step aside this line to have an affair with his female staff.

I family friend... yes. Prince Charles doesn't seem the type to have an affair with a nanny. Even if she is a friend.

[Polly]

I know as much (or as little) as anyone else concerning a putative affair between Charles and Tiggy. I do believe, however, that Diana was jealous of Tiggy, and given her influence with and propinquity to Diana's sons, I understand that.

The only 'facts' which I am aware of is that Diana certainly believed that there was/had been an affair after she saw Tiggy wearing a diamond Fleur de Lys brooch. Allegedly, Charles had presented these to his mistresses in the past, and indeed, Diana had received one herself.

Personally, I believe that Tiggy caused unnecessary trouble when she neglected to invite Camilla to Charles' 50th birthday party which she organised on behalf of the young princes. She stated later that it was at William and Harry's direction, which, in my opinion, was about as an unhelpful and as gauche a comment by anyone close to the RF could have made. It was not well done of her and it created unneccesary angst for Camilla.

Diana's behaviour and accusations about the abortion were outrageous and to my mind, spiteful, (even if true), but I wonder who put the idea into her head? That she actually believed it during those awful days of 1995, I believe.

As an aside, I'd like to suggest that Charles' friends have spoken publicly in his defence (quite proper) and also offered virulent criticism of Diana (improper). I well remember watching 'The Diana interview' with Martin Bashir on Panorama, follwed by an invited studio panel to provide comment. In my distinct recollection,one of Charles' friends, a member of parliament, made scandalous remarks about the princess to such an extent that the moderator intervened and stopped him. This was not an isolated incident but I believe it worthy of comment as, almost singularly, this program had a vast international audience.

[jcbcode99]

Originally Posted by Polly

I know as much (or as little) as anyone else concerning a putative affair between Charles and Tiggy. I do believe, however, that Diana was jealous of Tiggy, and given her influence with and propinquity to Diana's sons, I understand that.

The only 'facts' which I am aware of is that Diana certainly believed that there was/had been an affair after she saw Tiggy wearing a diamond Fleur de Lys brooch. Allegedly, Charles had presented these to his mistresses in the past, and indeed, Diana had received one herself.

Personally, I believe that Tiggy caused unnecessary trouble when she neglected to invite Camilla to Charles' 50th birthday party which she organised on behalf of the young princes. She stated later that it was at William and Harry's direction, which, in my opinion, was about as an unhelpful and as gauche a comment by anyone close to the RF could have made. It was not well done of her and it created unneccesary angst for Camilla.

Diana's behaviour and accusations about the abortion were outrageous and to my mind, spiteful, (even if true), but I wonder who put the idea into her head? That she actually believed it during those awful days of 1995, I believe.

As an aside, I'd like to suggest that Charles' friends have spoken publicly in his defence (quite proper) and also offered virulent criticism of Diana (improper). I well remember watching 'The Diana interview' with Martin Bashir on Panorama, follwed by an invited studio panel to provide comment. In my distinct recollection,one of Charles' friends, a member of parliament, made scandalous remarks about the princess to such an extent that the moderator intervened and stopped him. This was not an isolated incident but I believe it worthy of comment as, almost singularly, this program had a vast international audience.

Interesting post--I really enjoyed it, Polly! I have a question--is there any proof that Tiggy wore such a brooch?
The remarks made by Charles' friend--a member of Parliament--what were they? I'm wondering if there was any truth in them and if what he said then is accepted as fact today?

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

Interesting post--I really enjoyed it, Polly! I have a question--is there any proof that Tiggy wore such a brooch?
The remarks made by Charles' friend--a member of Parliament--what were they? I'm wondering if there was any truth in them and if what he said then is accepted as fact today?

Nicholas Soames, who was an MP, said on television after the Panorama interview that he thought Diana was in the advanced stages of paranoia. Since it was a televised interview, it's a matter of public record. Of course he was harshly criticised for it at the time because people were so sympathetic to Diana, and it looked as though the Prince had tasked his friends with attacking Diana.

[love_cc]

Originally Posted by judith14011

But now in the year after her divorce, relations with Prince Charles were on a nicely even keel, starting with that tea in July. The arrival in 1996 of Mark Bolland as Charles’s assistant private secretary inaugurated an era of glasnost between the offices of the Princess and the Prince. Bolland was a shrewd go–to guy with a marketing background and a useful four years of experience as director of the Press Complaints Commission. He lived in the real world, not the Palace bubble. He owed his job to Camilla; he had come to Charles at the recommendation of her divorce lawyer, Hilary Browne Wilkinson. In spite of that—or more likely because of it—part of his writ was to end the War between the Waleses. It got in the way, he believed, of the necessary rebuilding of Prince Charles’s image. Bolland’s first act was to persuade Charles to fire his private secretary, Commander Richard Aylard, the facilitator of the Dimbleby fiasco, and rid the Prince’s office of holdovers from the bitter years of marital competition. Nor was Bolland a fan of the undislodgeable Tiggy Legge-Bourke, sharing Camilla’s belief that Tiggy spent a lot of her time “winding Charles up.” Another positive augury, surely

Sorry about the name of a book, in which the author quote from Mark Bolland about Prince Charles's faithfulness to Camilla, "Basically he is a one-woman man, but he married the wrong woman". Actually I doubt Prince Charles himself had special feeling for Tiggy but I would not surprised to learn that Tiggy used to have feelings for him.

[Polly]

Well, I read and heard the allegations about the brooch a few occasions in the press at the time, and a family friend who was working in Fleet Street said that he believed it to be true. I have no reason to disbelieve him as he was never part of the 'royal reporter' rat-pack and is generally held in high regard in serious journalistic circles. His comments were passed on merely conversationally at dinner, as he had little interest in anyone in the Royal Family and, in fact, thought them all a dead-bore!

Charles' friend said, inter alia, that Diana was clinically paranoid, which is what most alarmed the moderator. For a start, he wasn't qualified to make such a comment and it was legally actionable, and second, what Diana actually said during the interview was a recounting of her marriage, from her point of view, her infidelities, and her hopes and wishes for the future. It was sad and upsetting to me but there was little hint during the interview of what, as I understand it, professionals regard as paranoia.

The MP concerned, currently in hot water for ignorance and stupidity (on an unrelated matter), was not intent on defending his friend: rather, his obvious purpose was to sneer at and belittle Diana. I can still see his big, disdainful and pompous face as I write this, and remember how indignant and annoyed I was with him.

Neither can I actually believe that Charles would have welcomed his friend's reaction and over-the-top comments. In fact, as I remember, he particularly requested that his friends not engage in any sort of public retaliation or verbal pronouncements towards or against his wife! When Charles' earlier interview was broadcast, a panel including Diana's friends wasn't formed to assail Charles' character in like manner. Ergo: Diana 'won' that battle, with, so an opinion poll held after her broadcast claimed, 86% of the population now supporting her 'side'.

As for there being any truth in these amateur-pseudo-psycho accusations about Diana, I have no idea, though I doubt it. She may well have had a streak of paranoia in her make up as she obviously seemed to feel besieged on many fronts, but then again, I've often felt a twinge of paranoia on occasions, and with much less reason than Diana.