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  #721  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
Diana held no title. The title was held by her grandfather, her father and her brother.
Which highlights a big difference between the nobility in Britain and the continent.

In Britain, individuals are ennobled, not entire families. Earl Spencer is a noble while his son, Viscount Althorp is a commoner.
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  #722  
Old 06-23-2016, 10:14 AM
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I think that the point was not about who had the bluest blood but who had the bluest English blood. I am not totally vouching for the quote but it seems plausible to me because it seems to be in the same vein as the dig about the British Royal Family not being all that British/English.
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  #723  
Old 06-23-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I think that the point was not about who had the bluest blood but who had the bluest English blood. I am not totally vouching for the quote but it seems plausible to me because it seems to be in the same vein as the dig about the British Royal Family not being all that British/English.
i think you are right members of the nobility always have a lot of pride in having a old title regardless of the rank and having an old family
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  #724  
Old 06-23-2016, 01:05 PM
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Diana eventually boosting on Britishness lead to nothing. Her family is widely connected with nobility, with let us say the House of Albemarle (Van Keppel, Dutch origin), with the House of Berwick (Alba, Spanish origin), with the House of Portland (Bentinck, Dutch origin), etc. As it was not desireable that Kings married their own subjects and as it was international policy to make alliances, it simply was de rigueur that a royal found a foreign partner.
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  #725  
Old 06-23-2016, 02:03 PM
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I didn't say otherwise. I said James's legitimate children's children didn't have children.

James II had 3 legitimate children - Mary, Anne, and James.

Mary had no surviving children and Anne's 1 surviving child died before becoming an adult. James had 2 legitimate children, Charles and Henry.

Henry was a Catholic bishop who had no acknowledged children. Charles (I was wrong, but my point remains), had no legitimate children, but one surviving illegitimate daughter, Charlotte, and it is believed her 3 (also illegitimate) children died without having had children.
Yes.

There are 2 legitimate lines to the house of Stewart, both female. One is through Charles I's daughter Henrietta who married the Prince of Orleans. Through her daughter Anne we can trace the Jacobite claim. The current claimant is Franz, duke in Bavaria. Sophie of Lichtenstein, his niece, and her son after her, follow Franz and his brother Max (her dad). Among those connected to this line are the Brazilians. Prince Pedro's wife was a granddaughter of one of the claimants. Her grandmother Maria Theresa was the 5 time great-granddaughter of Henrietta. MT's claim passed to her eldest son Rupprecht, Pedro's father in law's older brother.

The other line goes back a generation to the daughter of James I, Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the grandmother of George I, from whom the Windsors are descended, the senior protestant line. Most of the major royal houses in Europe and many minor, count Elizabeth as an ancestor (Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, spain, Luxembourg and Greece among them).
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  #726  
Old 06-27-2016, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I think that the point was not about who had the bluest blood but who had the bluest English blood. I am not totally vouching for the quote but it seems plausible to me because it seems to be in the same vein as the dig about the British Royal Family not being all that British/English.
It is plausible that Diana siad it. The English aristocracy DO think of themselves as just as grand as the RF, who were of German origin. So it is quite possible that Diana felt that her family were older and in England well before Philip came into the country, regardless of his royal rank and marriage to the queen.
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  #727  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:39 PM
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Hmmmm. I wonder how many people in Britain are actually descended from ancient Britons? (Rhetorical question.) There's been one wave of immigration after another during the last two Millenia.
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  #728  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:55 PM
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They don't have to be from ancient Britons, but certainly a family like the Spencers who can trace their lineage back to Tudor times and before, would think of themselves as in no way inferior to the RF.
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  #729  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:14 PM
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Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg after divorcing Prince Henri, Count of Clermont ( the current Count of Paris ) was created Duchess of Montpensier in her own right by her former father-in-law, Henri, Count of Paris, then head of the Orléans dynasty .
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  #730  
Old 06-27-2016, 11:03 PM
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I was thinking more about the people who make a big deal about the Royal Family being German and not about aristocratic families in particular. But yes, I see what you mean about aristocratic families feeling they're superior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
They don't have to be from ancient Britons, but certainly a family like the Spencers who can trace their lineage back to Tudor times and before, would think of themselves as in no way inferior to the RF.
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  #731  
Old 06-28-2016, 12:17 AM
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Diana referred to the Queen and Prince Philip as Germans. She famously called her inlaws, the Queen and Prince Philip Germans to a prospective employee. (1988)

Now why would her 'German' mother-in-law award her former daughter-in-law with any kind of reward or honor.

The Queen knew Diana much better than her fans.

Her fans need to look at from the Queen's perspective.
Diana's behavior did not warrant rewarding.
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  #732  
Old 06-28-2016, 03:12 AM
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Well, Diana didn't get any further honours. She remained Princess of Wales and mother of the heir and spare till the day she died. Her son will rule one day, and I suppose she didn't really need any greater honour or reward than that.
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  #733  
Old 06-28-2016, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg after divorcing Prince Henri, Count of Clermont ( the current Count of Paris ) was created Duchess of Montpensier in her own right by her former father-in-law, Henri, Count of Paris, then head of the Orléans dynasty .
The titles in the House de France are for private use. No one recognizes them. Exactly like the current Duke of Parma (generally recognized) is also Duque de Madrid (no one recognizes that), his brother Prince Jaime is also Duque de San Jaime (no one recognizes that), his sister Princess Maria Carolina is Duquesa de Guernica (no one recognizes that).

I think you can not compare the purely private granting of a not-recognized title as Duchesse de Montpensier in the House of France to the position of the former Princess of Wales in a reigning and recognized House which is part of a functioning constitutional system in a real state.

Even the titles Comte de Paris and Duc de France are fantasy-titles. The only recognized title in the House of Orléans is Prince (Princesse) d'Orléans and the head of that House used to be known as Duc d'Orléans, a most prestigious, historic title. They should stick to that. Duc de Nemours, Princesse de Joinville... my *ss...
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  #734  
Old 06-28-2016, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Well, Diana didn't get any further honours. She remained Princess of Wales and mother of the heir and spare till the day she died. Her son will rule one day, and I suppose she didn't really need any greater honour or reward than that.
Diana was no longer Princess of Wales. She was the ex-wife.
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  #735  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:45 PM
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She was still called Diana, PoW ...as I recall? The styling indicating she was divorced.


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  #736  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:50 PM
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She was. She used the correct styling that all divorced people use I believe.

It's a shame the War of the Wales's continues here at The Royal Forums.
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  #737  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:27 PM
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It's a shame the War of the Wales's continues here at The Royal Forums.
Yes and mostly in threads that have nothing to do with Diana.
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  #738  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
She was still called Diana, PoW ...as I recall? The styling indicating she was divorced.


LaRae
Yes, simply put, the title becomes basically their surname at divorce. It is the same with ex wives of aristocrats. Diana went from HRH The Princess of Wales (not allowed to use Diana as she was not a princess in her own right), to Lady Diana, Princess of Wales. If she remarried, she'd lose the last part. As Fergie is legally Sarah, Duchess of York. If she was alive when Camilla married Charles we'd have HRH The Princess of Wales, and Lady Diana, Princess of Wales.
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  #739  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:59 PM
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Cool that's what I thought...THE being the operative word indicating the holder of the title.


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  #740  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:21 AM
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Diana has lots of threads and is avidly discussed in all of them. I can't see that she is discussed or argued over in non Diana threads, apart from the occasional comment.

And I said in my previous post she was (Diana) Princess of Wales till the day she died, the next one will be Kate, and it is Diana's son and grandson who will be Kings after Charles. Diana's legacy indeed!
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