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  #681  
Old 06-22-2016, 01:29 AM
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Yes, but the York princesses aren't in the direct line, are they? I think that if Diana had lived a normal lifespan she might very well have lived to see her son ascend the throne as King William V. That would have made Diana's position unique really.
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  #682  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I did say it was fanciful.

It all points too to the question that if it would be appropriate to "title" Diana in her own right in case of a remarriage, wouldn't it ring true to do it for Sarah? After all her daughters are of the blood royal.
It would have ALLOWED the Queen to do it, in the sense that she'd created a precedent. But it would not force her to do it.
I agree that HM would probably not want to encourage someone like Al Fayed, but it is not IMO at all clear that Diana would have married his son. She might never have remarried at all. She might not have wanted a peerage, but I felt at the time of the divorce that it would be a suitable gesture. Diana DID behave stupidly and badly at times, I am not disputing that. But the failure of her marriage was not all her fault. and she did also behave very well at times and had a lot of good to her credit, in her charity work, in her kindness to many people, in rearing her sons, and in bringing the RF a lot of good publicity in her married years. The RF was rather dull in the 70s apart from the "search for Charles' bride" and Diana lifted it up.

If her marriage failed It was also Charles' fault. And she lost her chance of being Queen, thanks to that marital failure. The queen I think did recognise that in giving her a generous financial settlement in the divorce, and allowing her to continue running an office and doing charity works, whereas Sarah got a rather mean settlement and was just cut loose. So why not go the extra mile and give her a title, maybe not immediately after the divorce but in a few years...? It might have become a general "tradition" in due course for a high profile Royal wife who was divorced from a Prince.. but it would still only apply to a very few people...

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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
if Diana had lived a normal lifespan she might very well have lived to see her son ascend the throne as King William V. That would have made Diana's position unique really.
Well assuming she had good health, I think that's very possible.. and I'm sure he would have liked to see his mother with something other than being Diana princess of wales, or Lady Diana Smith...
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  #683  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:30 AM
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Then it would have been well within his right as king to put her forward for a peerage. Her former mother in law and ex husband are another matter.

But who is to say Diana, after decades as a private citizen, would want a title. If he suppose Charles lives to be as old as his mother, Diana would be 77 years old (older if he lived past 90, and considering the queen is likely to and her mother did, Charles likely will). An 80 year old Diana, likely long remarried and a private citizen, likely wouldn't feel much desire to be a peer.
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  #684  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:59 AM
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Maybe, Maybe not. she might have grown into a crusty old lady, who was very proper, and wanted a title, just so she could outrank Mrs So and So who went to dinner parites with her. I think that it is fairly harmless "snobbery", that the British "Love a lord" and Diana IS from a titled family where they DO care about such things.
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  #685  
Old 06-22-2016, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
For Diana?? Because if she ever remarried she would cease to be Diana, Princess of Wales. She would be simple Mrs X. [...]
No she would always be Lady Diana [surname husband] when remarrying with a gentleman without title .

Diana marrying Dodi Al Fayed? She would be Lady Diana Al-Fayed.

Diana marrying Peregrine fforbes-Hamilton? She would be Lady Diana fforbes-Hamilton.

Diana marrying the Duke of Norfolk? She would be Her Grace the Duchess of Norfolk.

Diana would never have been a plain Mrs.
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  #686  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:10 AM
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But she wouldn't be Lady Diana Al Fayed, Princess of Wales was my point. The poster I responded to said she wouldn't want a peerage, because why would she give up being Diana, princess of Wales, for a minor peerage. My point being, unless she wanted to remain single forever (which she didn't seem inclined to do), she was going to lose Princess of Wales anyways. At least a peerage was a title she would retain no matter what happened. Being Lady Diana Al Fayed, Baroness X is certainly a step up from her courtesy title from her father.
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  #687  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:19 AM
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We will never know if Diana ever wanted a peerage at all. She was such an unique and iconic person that it exceeded any peerage anyway.
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  #688  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:25 AM
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Agree Countess. I'm not srue if she would have wanted a peerage, but I think it would have pleased her. I'm sure if the queen had done it - it would only be for PR, because I'm sure she wasn't at all happy with Diana, but I think she saw the value of being seen to treat her well because she was very popular then. I think that while Diana wasn't bent out of shape about titles, she was from a noble family and they DO think of such things. She would have probably felt that to be Lady Brington (Viscountess or Baroness) would be better than being Lady Diana Brown.. If she had become a peeress, she would not have used her "Lady Diana" title.. She use the highest ranking title that she had.. and eventually the title would have gone to William, and what would be the harm in it?
If she had married a Mr James Brown, their kids would have been say The Hon Cynthia Brown or the Hon Rupert Brown..
I think she'd have felt that being given a title, was a sign that the RF hadn't completely thrown her out, that they recognised her work for the RF during her marriage, and that the failure of her marriage wasn't all her fault.
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  #689  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:15 AM
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But she wouldn't be Lady Diana Al Fayed, Princess of Wales was my point. The poster I responded to said she wouldn't want a peerage, because why would she give up being Diana, princess of Wales, for a minor peerage. My point being, unless she wanted to remain single forever (which she didn't seem inclined to do), she was going to lose Princess of Wales anyways. At least a peerage was a title she would retain no matter what happened. Being Lady Diana Al Fayed, Baroness X is certainly a step up from her courtesy title from her father.
We can, of course, never be sure, but it would take a lot to convince me that Diana would consider being Baroness X to be a step up from the courtesy title to which she was entitled by dint of being the daughter of an earl, i.e. born into the aristocracy rather than merely marrying into it. It is my understanding that she was rather proud of her Spencer blood.
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  #690  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:26 AM
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She was of course proud of being a Spencer. but I think she was a bit upset about losing her HRH, all the same and would have possibly felt that a peerage in her own right was some compensation for hte loss of her marital titles. And there are questions of precedence...
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  #691  
Old 06-22-2016, 06:05 AM
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after the divorce the Duke of Edinburgh had warned diana : "If you don't behave, my girl, we'll take your title away." and her reply was : "My title (The Lady Diana Frances Spencer) is a lot older than yours, Philip."
so she definitely was proud and comfortable with having a title and would have been more than happy if was created a peer in her own right
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  #692  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:34 AM
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Diana's Styles and Titles

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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
after the divorce the Duke of Edinburgh had warned diana : "If you don't behave, my girl, we'll take your title away." and her reply was : "My title (The Lady Diana Frances Spencer) is a lot older than yours, Philip."
so she definitely was proud and comfortable with having a title and would have been more than happy if was created a peer in her own right

Can you site a source for that? It's seems a bit unbelievable. Philip has royal blood through both his mother and fathers lines. The Spencers have Royal bloodline too but it's from illegitimate Royal lines.

Also the Duke of Edinburgh title was first created for the future George III in 1726. George III made John Spencer the 1st Earl Spencer in 1765. So the Edinburgh title is older.

To me, this discussion is just going into a circle because Diana didn't live to remarry or watch William become King.

Giving out hereditary peerages has basically stopped happening since mid 1960s. The only people getting them are royals. In the future Harry and any younger sons of the Cambridges are about it for future hereditary peers. George if Charles lives super long maybe.

The precedence for wives of divorced peers was already set. Why alter it?


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  #693  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
after the divorce the Duke of Edinburgh had warned diana : "If you don't behave, my girl, we'll take your title away." and her reply was : "My title (The Lady Diana Frances Spencer) is a lot older than yours, Philip."
so she definitely was proud and comfortable with having a title and would have been more than happy if was created a peer in her own right
First of all I would like to know name, place, date of that fly on the wall. Secondly your story is technically not possible because Philip could never have warned after the divorce: she exactly lost her style as the married spouse to the Prince of Wales with said divorce...
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  #694  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:16 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...United_Kingdom
the source of the story and i think that she meant that prince philip is a prince now only because of a Letters Patent in 1957 issued by the queen
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  #695  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:21 AM
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And everything is true in book written about royals? 🤔


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  #696  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
And everything is true in book written about royals? 🤔
no , but i think that Tina Brown is a reliable source she isn't like Lady Colin Campbell or others . In 2000 she was appointed a CBE for her services to overseas journalism and she is much respectable author and journalist
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  #697  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...United_Kingdom
the source of the story and i think that she meant that prince philip is a prince now only because of a Letters Patent in 1957 issued by the queen
Prince Philip is born a Prince of Greece and Denmark, from the Royal House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg. His grandparents were a King of the Hellenes, a Grand-Duchess of Russia, a Prince von Battenberg and a Princess von Hessen-Darmstadt. He has more royal quarters than the Queen whom has half a noble and not royal pedigree via her mother, Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. Prince Philip may have been made a Prince of the UK, as a Prince of Denmark he came from Europe's oldest royal house anyway.
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  #698  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:38 AM
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Through the male line alone, Prince Philip is a descendant of Christian I of Denmark, Frederick I of Denmark, Christian III of Denmark, Christian IX of Denmark and George I of Greece.

Eleven counts of Oldenburg, two dukes of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg, five dukes of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck, and one duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.

Whether or not the conversation between Diana and Prince Philip took place, Philip trumps Diana in terms of lineage.
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  #699  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:54 AM
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yes he has the most royal ancestors in the entire royal house but he can't trumps diana with a title he gave up he is like children of morganatic marriage maybe have the most royal lineage but still it doesn't worth a thing without a title
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  #700  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:56 AM
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Not to mention descending from Victoria through his maternal side. From Victoria you go back through the Hannovers, Stuarts, Tudors, into the Plantagenets.


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Originally Posted by duke of poliganc View Post
yes he has the most royal ancestors in the entire royal house but he can't trumps diana with a title he gave up he is like children of morganatic marriage maybe have the most royal lineage but still it doesn't worth a thing without a title

Well, He got a new title from King George VI and later made a Prince of the U.K., surely a Royal dukedom trumps the courtesy title from being an earl's daughter.


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