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  #41  
Old 06-25-2005, 10:05 PM
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When I read that the Queen Mother was quite friendly with Lady Furness while the latter was the Prince of Wales's mistress but took against Wallis Simpson because of her attitude and because it became clear that Edward wanted to marry her, I was struck by the hypocrisy of it. I mean, the idea that having a married mistress is somehow acceptable morally but marrying a divorced one isn't, is absurd. I'd have had a lot more sympathy for the Queen Mother's attitude if she'd been similarly condemnatory about the Prince's other mistresses.

Equally, I wonder what she thought about the whole Diana/Camilla business. She seems to have been a very bad enemy - a lifelong freezing-out of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, what sounds like a subtle ongoing war with Prince Philip and Lord Mountbatten over who had more influence with the Queen, and the waging of a very nasty campaign of ostracism of the wife of her nephew the Earl after he married an Irish nurse, who found herself cold-shouldered by society and (as a result no doubt of other factors as well as that) ended up committing suicide.
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  #42  
Old 06-25-2005, 10:15 PM
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Princess Anne famously said that her Grandmother "Took no Prisoners".
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  #43  
Old 06-25-2005, 10:29 PM
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I think the most generally fabled reason for the Queen Mum's apathy towards the Duchess of Windsor was that she caught Wallis aping her. That and Edward VIII abdicated just in time for George VI to face WWII, which destroyed his already poor health. But I guess the truth lies some between this and the other reasons given. It's just like people's opinions of Wallis and Diana: Some see the Windsors as star-crossed lovers, while others think Edward was foolishly selfish and Wallis just another social climber; some see Diana as a victim of a adultrous husband and mistress, while others believe her personal insecurities doomed the marriage from the beginning and her indiscretion was unforgivable. Nothing is as simple as black and white.
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  #44  
Old 06-25-2005, 10:46 PM
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Well, hopefully someday soon the Queen will allow a royal biographer full access to the Royal Archives to write a definitive biography of her mother so we can learn more.

We do know the Queen Mother was very disapproving of Wallis Simpson from the very moment they first met. Most royal biographers agree, however, that she never was interested in marrying David, nor was he interested in her. She was reluctant to marry the Duke of York as she knew the heavy burden of becoming royal and the duty it would entail. Given the era and standards of the society she was raised, it is inevitable that Elizabeth would take exception to a pushy American like Wallis Simpson in the royal circle, compared with a quieter Lady Furness as a mistress.

Similarly, it seems the Queen Mother did not mind her grandson, Prince Charles, was very comfortable with his mistress, Camilla Parker-Bowles, often allowing them to use Birkhall when she was not in residence. However, she was equally adamant that the Prince and Princess of Wales not separate and remain married for the sake of the throne. She blamed Diana for failing to keep Prince Charles happy and by her side and was convinced she was "unsuitable" to be Queen Consort.

After the separation, it seems the Queen Mother began to change her tune a bit and started becoming very dismayed with her grandson's tendency to act like his Uncle David and disregard his duty to the throne. She still disliked Diana's tendency to manipulate the media and felt she was damaging the monarchy, however, she also understood Diana's importance to the monarchy and her role as the mother of a future king. After the Panorama interview, it seems the Queen Mother irrevocably changed her view of Diana as a liability who must be jettisoned completely from the royal family.

With regard to Camilla, the view of the Queen Mother was clear. She was unsuitable to be a member of the royal family and must never be allowed to marry Prince Charles. She refused to receive her privately nor would she allow Charles to discuss the matter. If she were alive today, Charles would still be single.
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  #45  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:08 PM
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Makes you wonder what would have happened if she'd lived a normal lifespan rather than living to such a great age. It seems to be agreed by quite a lot of people that Charles wouldn't be marrying Camilla during the Queen Mother's lifetime; I just wonder what would have happened if she'd died in the late 1980s or something.

On the other hand, I don't know what she'd have done if he HAD just up and married Camilla while the Queen Mother was still alive. The Queen could have stopped the marriage, but the Queen Mother couldn't have. The influence of rich, old-fashioned, autocratic grannies really can be a problem in many families.
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  #46  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:16 PM
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Well, it seems rather clear that the Queen had no intention of defying her mother's well-known views on the subject of Camilla as well. The topic was never discussed by the Queen with Prince Charles (although it was conveyed among the Private Secretaries) and she refused to consider the possibility of marriage until after the death of the Queen Mother.

It is said the Queen was even more opposed to Camilla than her mother ever was and it was only when Prince Philip convinced her she could not leave the matter in abeyance forever that she agreed it was time to face reality.
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  #47  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:25 PM
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So you are saying that later the Queen Mum had a better attitude towards Diana? I totally see her point of blaming Diana for not keeping Charles happy and I can even see why she let CandC use birkhall cuz I guess every Prince of Wales has had a mistress. I kind of see it as disrespectful that Charles gave his wife some of the Queen Mum's jewels. I don't think the Queen Mum woudl like that one bit.

Hey since the Queen Mum's husband was never Prince of Wales, does that mean he did not have mistresses?
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  #48  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:38 PM
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Well, I'm not sure I see the connection between not being Prince of Wales and not having mistresses, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that George VI had mistresses after his marriage. I doubt it was because he wasn't Prince of Wales, though.
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  #49  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Well, hopefully someday soon the Queen will allow a royal biographer full access to the Royal Archives to write a definitive biography of her mother so we can learn more.
That'll be worth waiting for! Although considering the influence she had on both the Queen and Prince Charles, I think we may have to wait a few decades for a truly objective book. Official biographies can be as biased as any other sort of biography.
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  #50  
Old 06-26-2005, 12:15 AM
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I was just joking around. When i wrote this I was thinking of when Charles said that he would not be the first prince of wales w/o a mistress. It kind of seems that it is one of a prince of wales' duties to have a mistress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Well, I'm not sure I see the connection between not being Prince of Wales and not having mistresses, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that George VI had mistresses after his marriage. I doubt it was because he wasn't Prince of Wales, though.
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  #51  
Old 06-26-2005, 12:34 AM
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Wonder if Prince William knows...
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  #52  
Old 06-26-2005, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
I was just joking around. When i wrote this I was thinking of when Charles said that he would not be the first prince of wales w/o a mistress. It kind of seems that it is one of a prince of wales' duties to have a mistress.
From Joan's Mad Monarch's Series:
"The first King of Prussia, Frederick I (1657-1713), loved his second wife dearly. Nevertheless, he took a mistress because he thought it the correct thing for a monarch to do."
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  #53  
Old 06-26-2005, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
So you are saying that later the Queen Mum had a better attitude towards Diana? I totally see her point of blaming Diana for not keeping Charles happy and I can even see why she let CandC use birkhall cuz I guess every Prince of Wales has had a mistress. I kind of see it as disrespectful that Charles gave his wife some of the Queen Mum's jewels. I don't think the Queen Mum woudl like that one bit.

Hey since the Queen Mum's husband was never Prince of Wales, does that mean he did not have mistresses?
I don't think it was disrespectful that the Queen offered a piece of her mother's personal jewelry as an engagement ring for Camilla. The diamond ring was given to the Queen Mother by the King for their anniversary and is considered to be a private item, rather than one associated with the Queen's collection. This is in the royal tradition anyway.

The rest of Camilla's jewelry, so far from what has been seen, is either her own family's heirlooms or new pieces purchased by the Prince of Wales for her. It remains to be seen if the Queen will give Camilla a tiara from royal collection or if she will wear a new one purchased by Prince Charles.
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  #54  
Old 07-10-2005, 06:15 PM
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?What thinks you, Camilla ever queen will become??
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  #55  
Old 07-10-2005, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dianafan
?What thinks you, Camilla ever queen will become??
Camilla will be Queen if Charles becomes king. Just like she is now legally Camilla, Princess of Wales, though she choose to not use this title.
Thus the question is: will she use or not the title of Queen?
IMO, Charles will do anything to make that possible.
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  #56  
Old 07-10-2005, 07:11 PM
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Camilla cannot use the title of princess of Wales, if charles becomes king either will be able to use the queen title.
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
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  #57  
Old 07-10-2005, 07:23 PM
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what do you think, prince Charles will have ever loved princess Diana, or he its has only used for a throne continuator, I have about this my doubts!
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  #58  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:11 PM
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Camilla cannot use the title of princess of Wales, if charles becomes king either will be able to use the queen title.
She can use the Princess of Wales title; she just has the good sense not to - I think she and Charles know how unpopular that would be. When he becomes king, she'll be queen unless there's special legislation to stop it happening.
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  #59  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:22 PM
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Wallis simpons was HRH and she never can used the title. legally she was HRH.
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
-www.theroyalist.net-
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  #60  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:26 PM
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Legally she wasn't, because the King issued Letters Patent conferring the title on the Duke alone, not his wife or any prospective children. It's pretty certain that it wasn't legal to do it, but it wasn't challenged at the time.
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