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  #321  
Old 11-09-2006, 03:15 PM
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Really? I thought it was the other way around. Well, my apologies for false information. We've had 3 divorces in the family and all of the women went back to Miss X and ceased using the marital surname but I didn't know the majority did otherwise. I think the Miss route is always better.
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  #322  
Old 11-09-2006, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Really? I thought it was the other way around. Well, my apologies for false information. We've had 3 divorces in the family and all of the women went back to Miss X and ceased using the marital surname but I didn't know the majority did otherwise. I think the Miss route is always better.
We were at a dinner party a couple of weeks ago and met the 3 ex wives + the current wife of a certain gentleman, each was introduced as Mrs xxx.
Your family members seem to have a lot of sense!
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  #323  
Old 11-09-2006, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
That's right. Di had the title of a "Lady" but she couldn't have used Mountbatten-Windsor. It's not usual for divorced women in Britain to use their marital surname after divorce. She would most likely have gone back to Lady Diana Spencer.
Would she have been able to be named Lady Diana, Princess of Wales?
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  #324  
Old 11-09-2006, 03:54 PM
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No. One would cancel out the other. She either uses her title as daughter of an Earl or her courtesy title as an ex-wife. Of course, if they were still married, she'd have the right to remain HRH The Princess of Wales until William married.
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  #325  
Old 11-09-2006, 05:51 PM
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The Queen made a significant concession to Diana's position when it was announced The Princess would continue to retain her precedence on state and national occasions after the divorce. Technically, as she was no longer a Royal Highness or a princess of the UK, Diana should have lost all precedence she enjoyed as the wife of Prince Charles.
I wonder if this still would have been in affect if Diana was still alive today since charels has married Camilla. It would kinda be ackward if Diana and Camilla were at the same event. I don't think Diana would curtsey to Camilla.
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  #326  
Old 11-09-2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sirhon11234
I wonder if this still would have been in affect if Diana was still alive today since charels has married Camilla. It would kinda be ackward if Diana and Camilla were at the same event. I don't think Diana would curtsey to Camilla.
I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana had lived. The obstacles to a future king remarrying while his former wife was alive would have been very difficult for The Church to swallow and the public would not have accepted it.
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  #327  
Old 11-09-2006, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Would she have been able to be named Lady Diana, Princess of Wales?
Technically, that's what she was after the divorce, but it was irrelevant since her style remained royal. Same thing with Sarah, Duchess of York.
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  #328  
Old 11-09-2006, 07:36 PM
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Well, she was a "Lady" as daughter of an earl so she could have used the name Lady Diana Mountbatten-Windsor after the divorce with people calling her "Mylady" first time and then "Madam".
Diana was never Mountbatten-Windsor. With marriage, she was HRH The Princess of Wales. If she was anything conventional, it was Diana Wales (which she often used privately with friends).

After the divorce, the Palace stated people should address Diana as "The Princess" or "Ma'am" as the mother of a future king.
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  #329  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg
Diana was never Mountbatten-Windsor. With marriage, she was HRH The Princess of Wales. If she was anything conventional, it was Diana Wales (which she often used privately with friends).

After the divorce, the Palace stated people should address Diana as "The Princess" or "Ma'am" as the mother of a future king.
really? i always thought that if the charles and diana needed to use a sur name then they'd use mountbatten-windsor. did wales become his legal sur name after his investiture?
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  #330  
Old 11-23-2006, 07:43 PM
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Diana will never have the HRH. It cannot be given posthumously.
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  #331  
Old 11-24-2006, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Diana was never Mountbatten-Windsor. With marriage, she was HRH The Princess of Wales. If she was anything conventional, it was Diana Wales (which she often used privately with friends).

After the divorce, the Palace stated people should address Diana as "The Princess" or "Ma'am" as the mother of a future king.
Of course she was Mountbatten-Windsor, as this would be Charles' surname in case he lost his titles. The short form Diana Wales is the way British aristocracy shortens titles: Her Grace, Marian ThisandThat, The Duchess of Nowhere would sign her letters (and be called by some friends): Marian nowhere. So HRH Diana Mountbatten-Windsor, The Princess of Wales was Diana Wales in short. Just as her stepmother is in short Raine Spencer.

Here are quotes from the official Letters Patent of the British souverains concerning the family name (From: http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html#p2-1)

On 17 July 1917, King George V issued a Proclamation which stated that the male line descendants of the royal family would bear the surname Windsor:
from the date of this Our Royal Proclamation Our House and Family shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that all the descendants in the male line of Our said Grandmother Queen Victoria who are subjects of these Realms, other than female descendants who may marry or may have married, shall bear the said Name of Windsor
A few months later, King George V issued Letters Patent on 30 October 1917 which limited the title 'Prince' and the style 'Royal Highness' to the children of a sovereign, the children of sons of a sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. HH Prince Alastair of Connaught (1914-1943), grandson of HRH Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught (Queen Victoria's fourth son), became the first member of the royal family to use the surname Windsor in lieu of his princely title. It has been suggested that it was a misinterpretation of these latest Letters Patent which led to HH Prince Alastair (for such he was based on practise going back to the time of King George I's accession in 1714 and which practise was confirmed in Queen Victoria's Letters Patent of 30 January 1864; source: "The Princes of Great Britain" article in Burke's Peerage 1963 edition, pp xxvii-xxxii) being denied his princely title. However, as he was the son and heir of a peeress (Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Fife), he was allowed the courtesy use of his mother's subsidiary title and became Alastair Windsor, styled Earl of Macduff.
On 11 December 1917, it was further decided by Letters Patent that:
the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes.
In 1952, Queen Elizabeth II confirmed her grandfather's decision that the royal family's surname would continue to be Windsor. Her Majesty declared on 9 April 1952 that it was:
her Will and Pleasure that She and Her Children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that Her descendants other than female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Windsor.
A few years later, HM The Queen modified this statement by issuing Letters Patent in February 1960 which stated in part:
while I and my children will continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, my descendants, other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attributes of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess, and female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name Mountbatten-Windsor.

End of quote.

So as soon as Diana did not longer "enjoy the style, titles or attributes of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess" she became Diana Mountbatten-Windsor, as this would have been the name Charles had to use if he lost his title.
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  #332  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:47 PM
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I thought Diana could have recieved the HRH style back under letters of patent.
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  #333  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:14 PM
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No. Once you're dead, you're dead and you're not eligible for any titles or honours. After all, what good would they do?
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  #334  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:19 PM
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If that is the case...then why was it rumored that the Queen would give Diana back the HRH when she died?
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  #335  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:20 PM
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That was tabloid rubbish. If Diana gets one, Wallis will certainly be spinning. It'd make a mockery of the whole system. You don't get HRH's after death. What's the point of all that bother to add 3 letters to a tombstone? And Diana had lost her HRH quite a few years before her death and she was well aware she'd lose it. No, it'll never happen.
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  #336  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:25 PM
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Well...I guess we will see :) When William becomes King...anything could happen!
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  #337  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:26 PM
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No it couldn't. It can't happen. You cannot give honours to dead people.
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  #338  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:59 PM
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Wasn't there some report that the Queen had offered to give Diana an HRH after she died and Charles Spencer refused? Or was that a tabloid invention?
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  #339  
Old 11-24-2006, 06:05 PM
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No, tabloid invention. Apparantly, the Queen offered to let Diana keep her HRH but DIANA refused to. The Queen did ask Diana to reconsider her decision but she said no. The fact is that the Queen took away Diana's HRH whether because she wanted it, Charles wanted it or Diana wanted it. If William re-instates it, he better give the Duchess of Windsor her HRH too and I hope he'll be able to live comfortably in exile because the moment he makes our current Queen look a fool, he'll lose every scrap of support he has. He'd be either defying the Queen's wishes, going against what his mother wanted and he'd be showing a true insult to his father and step-mother. Add to that the fact that he can't give Di back her HRH anyway and we finally lay this absurd suggestion to rest.
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  #340  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
No it couldn't. It can't happen. You cannot give honours to dead people.
The Victoria Cross can be awarded posthumously, but originally it couldn't. The rules were changed.

When William's king he might change the rules, and, though I might be very wrong, I doubt he'd bother. There's no point.
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