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  #201  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
About that episode: it may not have been on purpose. In a biography of Diana's, one witness (a footman I think) told that Charles and her were arguing and that she felt by accident. Later she used that episode in her PR war with Charles, transforming it in an suicide attempt.
I personally tend to believe this version as the book I'm referring (Diana, L'enquète if I remember correctly) to was not written by a friend of Diana's nor Charles' and was pretty objective (not gossip stuff). Plus, I doubt she would have purposely endangered her son's life. She was a too good mother for that.
I'm refering to a book myself, some servants, more than one, said that she had asked Charles not to leave her to visit Camilla, he refused ,so she on purpose fell down the stairs, what we could call- a momentary bout of insanity-
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  #202  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
I'm refering to a book myself, some servants, more than one, said that she had asked Charles not to leave her to visit Camilla, he refused ,so she on purpose fell down the stairs, what we could call- a momentary bout of insanity-
Yes I read mostly that version of the story too. But like I said, it may not have happens this way, and I don't think we can put a definitive answer to this. Now the suicide version and nearly universally accepted. I for one chose not to believe it and rather go for that book version, but that's just an opinion :) .
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  #203  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
well, check the URL,

http://www.joanandstevesjubilantukjo...ks/diana13.htm

I found it so interesting, PS- who was King Robert Burke?
King Charles II and Barbara Villiers had several children, I do not deny this. However, James I was involved with a different Villiers...

Burke? I haven't a clue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicky
I think Mapple meant George Villiers lol. Charles II's Barbara Villiers had several of the King's kids didn't she?
Yes, the Duke of Buckingham, the one from The Three Musketeers. :)

Barbara Villiers had six children, five of them were acknowledged by Charles II as his. Although there are some doubts...
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  #204  
Old 08-20-2005, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
I'm refering to a book myself, some servants, more than one, said that she had asked Charles not to leave her to visit Camilla, he refused ,so she on purpose fell down the stairs, what we could call- a momentary bout of insanity-
Servants that were actually there at the scene said it? I mean that I wasn't aware that anyone aside from Diana that was there actually spoke out about it. Who were they? Does anyone have excerpts? What book was it in?
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  #205  
Old 08-20-2005, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Alicky
Servants that were actually there at the scene said it? I mean that I wasn't aware that anyone aside from Diana that was there actually spoke out about it. Who were they? Does anyone have excerpts? What book was it in?
I understand that some servants were not direct witnesses but were within walking distance when this arrived. In the book I'm referring to, the man said he heard a big noise and when he (and other people from what I remember) arrived, they found Di at the end of the stairs. She pretty shocked and he says it was pretty obvious (to him) it was an accident.
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  #206  
Old 08-20-2005, 10:09 AM
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Sounds about right. :)
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  #207  
Old 08-20-2005, 10:31 AM
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Why don't we ask the moderators to split the subject of Diana's fall out from this thread. It doesn't have anything to do with titles but its quite interesting and I have a lot of questions on it.

There is a lot of unanswered questions regarding that.
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  #208  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
King Charles II and Barbara Villiers had several children, I do not deny this. However, James I was involved with a different Villiers...

Burke? I haven't a clue...


Yes, the Duke of Buckingham, the one from The Three Musketeers. :)

Barbara Villiers had six children, five of them were acknowledged by Charles II as his. Although there are some doubts...

doubts about what, Di descends from 1 of Barbara V.'s kids, King Robert Burke is said to be 1 of Di's ancestors.
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  #209  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
I understand that some servants were not direct witnesses but were within walking distance when this arrived. In the book I'm referring to, the man said he heard a big noise and when he (and other people from what I remember) arrived, they found Di at the end of the stairs. She pretty shocked and he says it was pretty obvious (to him) it was an accident.
well, Di herself said later that it had not been an accident, she was a very honest person, why should have been lying about it- was she taken to hospital or not- Charles did not even wait to c how was his wife doing and what had happened to the baby.
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  #210  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
doubts about what, Di descends from 1 of Barbara V.'s kids,
There is a certain doubt regarding whether Charles II was a father of all children acknowledged by him.

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Originally Posted by emily62_1
King Robert Burke is said to be 1 of Di's ancestors.
Do you mean Robert I (the Bruce), the King of Scots?
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  #211  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
King Charles II and Barbara Villiers had several children, I do not deny this. However, James I was involved with a different Villiers...

Burke? I haven't a clue...


Yes, the Duke of Buckingham, the one from The Three Musketeers. :)

Barbara Villiers had six children, five of them were acknowledged by Charles II as his. Although there are some doubts...
Charles did not acknowledge all of Barbara's children--only the ones who could possibly be his because he had sexual relations with her at the time of the conception. He accepted her first daughter Anne as his own to give her a leg up in the world when it was more likely that she was Lord Chesterfield's daughter, but Charles could have been the father also.

When Barbara had a child by Henry Jermyn, she tried to get Charles to acknowledge him. Charles knew the child was not his for he had not visited Barbara's bed in nearly a year. Barbara turned into a fit of rage and told Charles he would accept any child she had whether it be his or not! Once she threatened to slam one of her children on the floor in front of Charles if he did not acknowledge the child was his!!
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  #212  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:00 PM
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I'll tell u about the book , I'll have to find it, it's old, written by the housekeeper of Highgrove, who became the first confidante of Diana, quite be4e Burrell, she was a witness of the fall and of everything it happened there, even when once di broke cups, vases etc on Charles' head...... she and her hubby lived in the estate and their kids played with William and Harry, she describes very well Di's turmoil, and Charles' indifference and selfishness.
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  #213  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
There is a certain doubt regarding whether Charles II was a father of all children acknowledged by him.


Do you mean Robert I (the Bruce), the King of Scots?
I think that's him.
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  #214  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Charles did not acknowledge all of Barbara's children--only the ones who could possibly be his because he had sexual relations with her at the time of the conception. He accepted her first daughter Anne as his own to give her a leg up in the world when it was more likely that she was Lord Chesterfield's daughter, but Charles could have been the father also.

When Barbara had a child by Henry Jermyn, she tried to get Charles to acknowledge him. Charles knew the child was not his for he had not visited Barbara's bed in nearly a year. Barbara turned into a fit of rage and told Charles he would accept any child she had whether it be his or not! Once she threatened to slam one of her children on the floor in front of Charles if he did not acknowledge the child was his!!
O tempora, o mores!
BTW, Camilla is also a descendant of Charles II--the Duke of Richmond and Lennox, an illegitimate child of the King and Louise Keroualle, is counted among her ancestors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
I think that's him.
He was a grandson of one of the thirteen competitors for the Scottish Crown, which was left unclaimed after the death of Margaret 'Maid of Norway', the last monarch of Scots from the House of Dunkeld.

Robert the Bruce proved himself to be a great warrior and a good statesman who managed to defend the independence of Scotland from the English kings in a series of bloody wars.
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  #215  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mapple
Robert the Bruce proved himself to be a great warrior and a good statesman who managed to defend the independence of Scotland from the English kings in a series of bloody wars.
Robert the Bruce lived at the time of William Wallace and fought for Scottish independence with Wallace. After Wallace's capture and execution (some say Bruce betrayed Wallace and never forgave himself), Robert the Bruce took up where William Wallace left off and gained independence for Scotland.

Scotland eventually ended up tied back in the English Crown in 1603 with the succession of James VI of Scotland AKA James I of England.
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  #216  
Old 08-20-2005, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
well, Di herself said later that it had not been an accident, she was a very honest person, why should have been lying about it- was she taken to hospital or not- Charles did not even wait to c how was his wife doing and what had happened to the baby.
She was? She was a master media manipulator and anytime you read about her, you'll hear ten different versions on one account. She tended to tell a different story to everyone she met.
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  #217  
Old 08-20-2005, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Alicky
She was? She was a master media manipulator and anytime you read about her, you'll hear ten different versions on one account. She tended to tell a different story to everyone she met.
Gee, was Charles completely honest? Were his sycophants completely honest?? The answer is a resounding NO. They manipulated the media as well feeding stories to make Charles look better to the public too. They threw mud too and don't forget it. Diana's 30th birthday comes to mind on that one with all of them feeding a media frenzy that Diana didn't want a party from her husband. Why should she?? He didn't care one jot and he would only have invited his stuffy friends!! Gee, how could he bare to take time away from Camilla?? He was glad Diana refused! He didn't have to do anything and his friends told the papers and exaggerated the events. That was a piece of master manipulation!

We will never know what happened that day when Diana fell. Thank God she and William were not harmed.
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  #218  
Old 08-21-2005, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Alicky
She was? She was a master media manipulator and anytime you read about her, you'll hear ten different versions on one account. She tended to tell a different story to everyone she met.
no, she was a hurt woman, that's all, not a media manipulator, anyway, I think u know what Charles told every1 about Diana, f.i. that she was crazy, a very ill woman. I believe her, she comes out bad of this- a preggy woman who tries to commit suicide? if she told media so, it was true, as she comes very bad out of this, why lying ?????????????????-
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  #219  
Old 08-21-2005, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Gee, was Charles completely honest? Were his sycophants completely honest?? The answer is a resounding NO. They manipulated the media as well feeding stories to make Charles look better to the public too. They threw mud too and don't forget it. Diana's 30th birthday comes to mind on that one with all of them feeding a media frenzy that Diana didn't want a party from her husband. Why should she?? He didn't care one jot and he would only have invited his stuffy friends!! Gee, how could he bare to take time away from Camilla?? He was glad Diana refused! He didn't have to do anything and his friends told the papers and exaggerated the events. That was a piece of master manipulation!

We will never know what happened that day when Diana fell. Thank God she and William were not harmed.
as always I agree with u, totally !!!!!!!!!!!! yes, Charles was subtle, he made his friends and valets to speak out for him , Di spent her 30th b-day with Paul Burrel alone- he was the only 1 who stayed with her, my heart aches for her, not even her lovely mum was there, Charles ? he did not care a bit about his wife and her b-day.
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  #220  
Old 08-21-2005, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
as always I agree with u, totally !!!!!!!!!!!! yes, Charles was subtle, he made his friends and valets to speak out for him , Di spent her 30th b-day with Paul Burrel alone- he was the only 1 who stayed with her, my heart aches for her, not even her lovely mum was there, Charles ? he did not care a bit about his wife and her b-day.
I believe the children were with their Mum on her 30th birthday.
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