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  #41  
Old 04-10-2014, 04:50 PM
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Osipi, the first 'Bertie' refers to Edward VII (who many at the time assumed would be a wastrel king); the second to the other Albert (George VI) and his [unnamed] brother Edward VIII.
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  #42  
Old 04-10-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Maybe there are differences in what is needed to study a topic. Usually academic students must meet stringent requirements. They need to have a solid background in the theory and methods of their field and demonstrate a good knowledge. Prior to beginning work, a student will need to draw up a formal, written agreement with his/her supervisor. The agreement, which must be approved by the university, will outline the objectives of the research project and an individualised plan of study.

Let us assume that a student wants to research Diana, Princess of Wales. In what framework should that be done? History? Social sciences? Is the person of Diana, Princess of Wales "heavy" enough for an academic research project, for a thesis and a well-documented academic report, approved by supervisor and university? Yes, the late Margaret Thatcher is. Yes, Queen Elizabeth II is. Two ladies with direct political, social and historical influence which gives any student loads of data and information.

I have the feeling that any student who wants to make and to uphold a thesis about Diana, will meet raised eyebrows and even negative comments because it will become commented as ultra-light and not scientifical enough. Maybe we have different 'notions' of students. Maybe at secondary education level, studies about the life of Diana are acceptable for a starter.


I am well aware of what is needed to undertake a formal program of research at university level but I am teaching High School students whose teachers are actually teaching them how to be historians at a more basic level.

As for studying Diana at the thesis level - has been done - my supervisor for my Ph.D has had two students look into Diana at that level already - one looked into her in a comparison with other Princesses of Wales and how they define their roles in that position showing how the role has changed over time and the other looking at her social impact on young people across the Commonwealth - neither 'lightweight' studies.

I have certainly taught Diana to high school students and know many other teachers who do so - as a means of getting students into the idea of writing a biography and to be careful with using one source alone - she is great to use for teaching about bias and how we are all biased in the way we see the world and how, as historians, we have to take into account the bias of the writer, person speaking etc.
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  #43  
Old 04-10-2014, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post

Osipi, the first 'Bertie' refers to Edward VII (who many at the time assumed would be a wastrel king); the second to the other Albert (George VI) and his [unnamed] brother Edward VIII.
Thanks for the correction Lee-Z and Warren. I totally read that wrong.
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  #44  
Old 04-10-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
...In my view Charles and William have nothing to fear and can look forward to become great and beloved Kings. All this despite the bitter years of the War of the Waleses...
I agree that most people will rally around Charles when the time comes, but the War of the Waleses continues to impact Charles' popularity now. The last poll I saw indicated that approximately 30 percent of the people want the crown to pass directly to William and fewer than 20 percent want to see Camilla crowned as Queen. I believe that will change as time goes on, but I also think that Diana's words and actions are still having an impact.

I still would like to hear exactly what she said in the Morton tapes. They may be irrelevant but they also may completely change how people perceive Charles' first marriage--either positively or negatively.

It would have been different if Morton hadn't released some of the tapes.
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  #45  
Old 04-10-2014, 06:54 PM
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It's possible that what she said could be stuff that is already known or stuff that could be damaging to the royal family. If someone has these tapes or if they exist, it's interesting that they have never materialized or been released. Is someone holding something back, perhaps? Waiting for the right time to release them?

Depending on what is on the tape if they exist, will influence people's decisions.
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  #46  
Old 04-10-2014, 10:34 PM
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Diana had signed a confidentiality agreement as part of her divorce settlement, why then would she make a series of tapes speaking about things she had promised to not speak about?
The possibilities:
1) Just another wild rumour w/ no substance, she did not make any tapes - the evidence being she had agreed to end the very public attacks she had been making on Charles and his family.
2) They did exist and Diana made the tapes as a sort of verbal diary w/ no intention of ever allowing them to be made public.
3) They did exist and Diana intended to use them at some future date, perhaps following her pattern w/ Morton's book, denying she had anything to do w/ their release perhaps claiming they got into the public domain via theft.
If the latter scenario, then she had not buried the hatchet, moreover the alleged contents of the tapes - that she wanted Charles to be bypassed and she intended to be the power behind the throne via William suggests that she had not matured and moved on, but was biding her time waiting to attack again.
Assuming the tapes were made the question becomes do they still exist or have they been destroyed?
If they exist, IMO releasing them now can only do harm, mostly because Diana was so sincerely and believably deceitful about so many things - why rehash it all again.
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  #47  
Old 04-11-2014, 12:54 AM
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It isn't about rehashing.

If the tapes exists then the unedited tapes should be released in their entirety.

Along with the unedited Settelen tapes also in their entirety. The same for the Morton tapes and the phone tapes.

Everything should be released at the same time, as that would cause the least amount of damage to the royal family.

There were 21 Settelen tapes, but Burrell only had a few, what happened to rest? Is someone waiting to release them on an anniversary of her death/birth. At Charles' coronation?

Unless all the tapes, both audio & video are securely with the royal family, these tapes can be used against the royal family at any time. (That is why I support releasing everything.)
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2014, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am well aware of what is needed to undertake a formal program of research at university level but I am teaching High School students whose teachers are actually teaching them how to be historians at a more basic level.

As for studying Diana at the thesis level - has been done - my supervisor for my Ph.D has had two students look into Diana at that level already - one looked into her in a comparison with other Princesses of Wales and how they define their roles in that position showing how the role has changed over time and the other looking at her social impact on young people across the Commonwealth - neither 'lightweight' studies.

I have certainly taught Diana to high school students and know many other teachers who do so - as a means of getting students into the idea of writing a biography and to be careful with using one source alone - she is great to use for teaching about bias and how we are all biased in the way we see the world and how, as historians, we have to take into account the bias of the writer, person speaking etc.
I'm surprised to hear that there is so much interest in the BRF in Australia.
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  #49  
Old 04-11-2014, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree that most people will rally around Charles when the time comes, but the War of the Waleses continues to impact Charles' popularity now. The last poll I saw indicated that approximately 30 percent of the people want the crown to pass directly to William and fewer than 20 percent want to see Camilla crowned as Queen. I believe that will change as time goes on, but I also think that Diana's words and actions are still having an impact.

I still would like to hear exactly what she said in the Morton tapes. They may be irrelevant but they also may completely change how people perceive Charles' first marriage--either positively or negatively.

It would have been different if Morton hadn't released some of the tapes.
In popularity the Prince of Wales and certainly the Duchess of Cornwall will never ever beat the fresh, young, goodlooking Cambridges with their spotless reputation and Baby George as an irrestistible bonus. However, this was the same in 1982 when the young Charles and Diana proudly showed Baby William to the nation. 10-15 years later little was left from that so sweet royal sugarcake.

People who say that the monarchy has to skip a generation do show at the same time that they do not understand the system of hereditary succession. They want to replace it by a system of popularity. But we all know: popularity comes on foot and goes away on horseback....

Once the nation is in mourning, the flag flying half-mast, the church bells tolling and solemn proceedings are under way for Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, then the wheel of history will move further: "The Queen is dead; long live the King!". The then new Duke and Duchess of Cornwall will join in that chorus and for no second think with grumblin' teeth: "Pfff... papa should move away and make place for us!" I am sure that was also never Diana's wish. She was not thát stupid to undermine the foundations and principles of the same monarchy her own flesh and blood will inherit.
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  #50  
Old 04-11-2014, 06:05 AM
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I'm surprised to hear that there is so much interest in the BRF in Australia.
We have a population of over 23 million and two have chosen to do their Ph.D's on aspects of Diana. Hardly proof of interest or otherwise.

What we do have is a strong culture of teaching and studying history - although virtually no British history is taught now - and none is compulsory so more and more kids are coming to some study of Britain, if at all, when they reach university level.

Some teachers teach 'elective history' in addition to the compulsory courses and within that course teach 'biography' or 'construction of history' and then use Diana as a great case study for those topics.
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  #51  
Old 04-11-2014, 01:52 PM
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I believe that the tapes are either in the Royal Archives or have been destroyed. Quite honestly, I'm not sure what good they would do being released now. Unless there's evidence there of criminal activity on behalf of members of the Royal Family, I don't think they need to be made public. Genuine historians in the future might be able to view them from a more dispassionate distance.

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Unless all the tapes, both audio & video are securely with the royal family, these tapes can be used against the royal family at any time. (That is why I support releasing everything.)
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  #52  
Old 05-05-2014, 02:05 AM
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I have just re-watched "Princess Diana: The Secret Tapes" which is available on youtube.

That documentary is based on the premise that Diana wanted her story told, and that the best way to tell that story is in her own words, and I have to agree with that. The doco actually paints a very sympathetic picture of her. It shows her as a flawed woman but one with a lot of admirable qualities. And it shows her as a woman, not a mythical fairytale princess.

The Morton/Colthurst tapes were Diana's answers to questions written by Morton and conveyed between them by Colthurst. I doubt that there will be anything particularly nasty or scandalous in those tapes. Yes, the three in a marriage stuff is rehashed, but we all know about that anyway. And, yes, we see Diana imply that she thought Charles should go off with Camilla and leave her and her sons to look after business. But, as Morton himself said in the doco, the book told Diana's story, from her point of view. He doesn't vouch for the accuracy of what she says.

The video of the Settelen recordings that is shown was actually very interesting. It showed how Diana applied herself to learning how to present speeches and showed her working on a particular speech and preparing for interviews. It also shows her answering questions about her goals and learning how to do that in interviews. The parts I saw are very instructive and show her in a very favourable light.

I think a lot of people are assuming the worst about these tapes. I doubt there is anything sinister on them. There might be stuff the Queen or Duke don't like, but that's another issue. I really hope they are not lost or destroyed and that one day, even if it is not for a couple more decades, the whole lot are released for they are a very valuable resource.

Though it must be noted that those tapes were not made in 1997.
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  #53  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:01 AM
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Mystery tapes which Princess Diana gives advice to William and Kate 'are exactly like her' | Daily Mail Online

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Tapes allegedly made by Princess Diana for Prince William echo sentiments she expressed just months before her death, a close friend said yesterday.

The existence of the tapes was revealed by US magazine Globe. In them, she is said to urge her oldest son and his future wife: ‘Cherish your children for me. Let them know I’ll love them and watch over them.’

It reported the voice on the tape stated: ‘I know I’d adore you and we’d be fast friends. You’d have to be someone truly special. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be William’s wife.’

Speaking directly to her daughter-in-law, Diana reportedly advised her to work at her marriage to survive the pressures of public life and warned her that being a future queen makes marriage harder.
Is this tape also part of the secret tapes she made during 1997? If the existence of these tapes are true, I think there must be something really frightened her at that time.

There is another possibility why she made these tapes. She used some of them as a blackmail to the government (establishment), warning them if something ever happened to her, these tapes will be disclosed to the public. In these case, all the tapes would not be located in Britain, but very likely in USA. It has been reported that Paul Burrel would regularly send something to a friend in USA. Not surprise the news was from USA.
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  #54  
Old 12-13-2014, 07:25 PM
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist in any way, but I do have a feeling that Paul Burrell was more deeply involved in Charles and Diana's affairs after the breakup of their marriage than has ever come out in the public arena. He worked for Diana's interests in many ways, in my opinion, and the royal family knew it.
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  #55  
Old 12-14-2014, 03:48 AM
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Although whether the tapes really exist can not be confirmed. But it was well reported that in the last year of her life, she had sent the following morbid quotes to not only one, but a bunch of her friends.

"And at night you will look up at the stars...and in one of the stars I shall be living. I have to go to the stars. And one day, when you look at the stars, you will remember me. "

I don't think it is a promotion, but she was fearing for her life.
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  #56  
Old 12-14-2014, 05:23 PM
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One thing that I don't understand is why, if she didn't want official protection, she didn't at least hire professional, well-qualified security for when she was "out and about." She could certainly afford it. She was so worried about her safety, yet she'd go around London and other places unprotected, where anyone could have taken a shot at her. Where there's a camera, there can be a gun. Where there's a long-distance lens, there can be a sniper.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2014, 03:26 AM
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I thought Diana was more worried about a car accident happening to her than snipers. She wrote that a certain person (never publicly named) was planning an accident involving brake failure for her in a handwritten letter only ten months before she died. She supposedly gave this letter to Paul Burrell as 'insurance'.
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:21 AM
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One thing that I don't understand is why, if she didn't want official protection, she didn't at least hire professional, well-qualified security for when she was "out and about." She could certainly afford it. She was so worried about her safety, yet she'd go around London and other places unprotected, where anyone could have taken a shot at her. Where there's a camera, there can be a gun. Where there's a long-distance lens, there can be a sniper.
Because she knew her enemy was very powerful. If they decide to kill her, some professional security wouldn't help at all. The result won't be different, merely adding more names to the casualty list. Hiding in her house forever is not practical. So I tend to believe she did make some secret tapes as a blackmail in exchange of her safety. However, the most efficient way to guarantee her safety is to drop her landmine campaign.
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:46 AM
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I thought Diana was more worried about a car accident happening to her than snipers. She wrote that a certain person (never publicly named) was planning an accident involving brake failure for her in a handwritten letter only ten months before she died. She supposedly gave this letter to Paul Burrell as 'insurance'.
If she was so worried about a car accident then surely the very least she should have done was wear a seatbelt when she was in one! The fact she didn't proves she wasn't all that worried at all.

To be blunt, Diana just wasn't important enough for anyone to bother assassinating her. MI5/MI6 had much, much bigger worries on their plates at that time than a former royal whom only the tabloids and gossip rags were all the interested in.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:46 AM
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I'm sure that's true, and as I said earlier I am not a conspiracy theorist. Nevertheless, there is evidence that Diana FELT that she was in danger. It was her perception, her view, that someone or some organisation was trying to eliminate her.
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