Diana's Relationships with The Queen and Other Members of the Royal Family

[COUNTESS]

Whoever said that was a dolt. Nobody lined up when Margaret died. She was not Diana, nor was she anyone most cared about, except the immediate family.

 

[Denville]

But what has that to say to anything. I think that Margaret DID complain about the smell of rotting flowers around KP, which was nasty of her, but it is an indication of how fed up she and I think other royals were, at the time...that they didn't feel any great grief about Diana.

 

[Denville]

I can certainly agree with the last statement. Each and every day I see that the masses must be appeased, with little regard for logic or any other sense.

I dont see that at all. In the end, the "masses" pay for the royal lifestyle, and they are the ones who say whether the RF stays in its position or not. Diana was a public figure and loved by many, so I think that the public had a right to ask for some sign that the RF who had fallen out with her, had SOME respect for her in death and that they, the public were allowed to join in her final rites.

 

[Denville]

Perhaps she was just good with people who only required a little bit from her. A hug, a touch, a photo op; but from those who needed a regular relationship that required more time and energy and exchanges she just couldn't do it. that from.

I dont think that that is true at all. I think that Diana worked hard at her relationships, in fact I think that she put so much into them that she WOULD expect a lot back, and the RF are probably less inclined to be "intense" than she was. I believe she bought expensive thoughtful gifts for them and of course they dont do expensive gifts at christmas. She said that she longed to be close to her Mother in law and hug her and the queen does not "do" that sort of close lovey relationship...

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Princess Diana believe the entire Royal Family was against her?

 

[Curryong]

At the beginning of her engagement? No, they were welcoming to her though of course some were closer temperamentally than others. For instance, I don't think Diana and Anne ever had too much in common!

At the beginning of her marriage I think Diana felt misunderstood because she didn't fit into the royals very structured life at places like Balmoral, (where she spent the latter part of her honeymoon) missed her friends, felt lonely, but I don't believe that she felt that many of them were 'against her' at that stage.

Of all the BRF, IMO Diana got on with Princess Margaret the best, was cordial with Andrew and quite fond of Edward. Her relationship with her neighbour at KP Princess Michael was fraught at best, and Diana was in awe of her mother in law. When you're in awe of someone I don't believe you are ever at ease. The Queen is also very shy.

After several years, as the marriage crumbled so did the various relationships between Diana and members of the BRF. Blood matters in the end, and I think the BRF very much close ranks when one of their own is attacked.

Therefore during the War of the Waleses, when it was becoming clear what had happened with Morton and the rest, Diana lost her support base. At the end of her marriage Diana did feel angry, resentful and bitter about various things, and yes I do think she probably felt the entire BRF was ranged against her at that stage.

 

[Dman]

At the beginning of her engagement? No, they were welcoming to her though of course some were closer temperamentally than others. For instance, I don't think Diana and Anne ever had too much in common!

At the beginning of her marriage I think Diana felt misunderstood because she didn't fit into the royals very structured life at places like Balmoral, (where she spent the latter part of her honeymoon) missed her friends, felt lonely, but I don't believe that she felt that many of them were 'against her' at that stage.

Of all the BRF, IMO Diana got on with Princess Margaret the best, was cordial with Andrew and quite fond of Edward. Her relationship with her neighbour at KP Princess Michael was fraught at best, and Diana was in awe of her mother in law. When you're in awe of someone I don't believe you are ever at ease. The Queen is also very shy.

After several years, as the marriage crumbled so did the various relationships between Diana and members of the BRF. Blood matters in the end, and I think the BRF very much close ranks when one of their own is attacked.

Therefore during the War of the Waleses, when it was becoming clear what had happened with Morton and the rest, Diana lost her support base. At the end of her marriage Diana did feel angry, resentful and bitter about various things, and yes I do think she probably felt the entire BRF was ranged against her at that stage.

Diana really didn't have much of a support base when she was a member of the royal family. Her and The Queen got along. Her relationship with Philip was good and she was close to the Kent's. Andrew and Edward were good friends of hers, but she didn't have much emotional support though. She lacked support from her own blood family as well.

Princess Michael of Kent has been very frank about Diana's past situation.

 

[Katrianna]

Actually, the HM and Prince Philip were still quite fond of Diana and supported her against Charles during the Troubles. It was the Panorama interview that upset them and they then joined the rest of the Royals in circling the wagons. Diana had a good relationship with Andrew and Edward, had a fairly good relationships with Anne and Margaret at first, then they waned. Concerning Princess Michael, Diana wasn't the only Royal to have a dicey relationship with HRH. She just joined the line with the rest of the Royal Family.

 

[Denville]

I thought that Prss Michael was quite kind to her when the marriage broke up and said that she should not curtsty to her...
I think that Phil and the queen were supportive of her, fro longer than the rest of the RF but it was because they wanted to try and keep the marriage going rather than because they had much in common with her... or much affection for her..

At
Therefore during the War of the Waleses, when it was becoming clear what had happened with Morton and the rest, Diana lost her support base. At the end of her marriage Diana did feel angry, resentful and bitter about various things, and yes I do think she probably felt the entire BRF was ranged against her at that stage.

yes I think by the War time, she was feeling angry and hostile to the RF as a whole and felt that they all disliked her, and I think by then it was true. In Morton's second book he said that Di had a present for Lady Sarah Chatto's first baby and because by then relations were so cool with Margaret, her neighbour at KP, she had to give it to one of the staff to pass on...

 

[Katrianna]

You're probably right about Princess Michael after the marriage break up. I hadn't ever read anything about her relationship with Diana after the divorce. I remember reading about the baby present and Princess Margaret.
Not to stray off topic, but I have the feeling that Princess Margaret was probably the most difficult of relationships Diana had especially during the years of her marriage problems. She could be more "royal" than even the Queen or Queen Mother and was quite prickly with people than even Diana. To me, her behavior towards Diana perhaps was a reflection of her own marriage difficulties combined with her own health and personal problems.
Sometimes we deflect our worst experiences on another person going through the same things and not in a positive way and become the worst to judge. Margaret didn't follow the Queen's lead and bow her head as Diana's coffin wheeled past, it was one of Margaret at her worst.
I apologize for going off topic.

 

[Denville]

I don't think it is OT, Katrianna. Margaret was Di's neighbour at KP and I think that she and Di were quite friendly when Di was new to the RF, she was more artisiitc than the rest of the RF and shared some of Di's interests. But they did have an argument aout a butler, Diana had parted from him, and Marg employed him and Diana was annoyed by this.. Margaret apparently told her that she (ie Di) was living in the queen's home at KP and had no say in who was employed by other people in the Palace. And when Diana went public about the RF, Margaret completely cut off with her.. and also seems to hve been annoyed that Di's funeral meant she had to cut short her holiday and she complained about the smell of rotting flowers outside the palace.. She was not IMO a very likable person.. As you say she tended to "be friendly" and then go "I'm royal Call me Your Royal Highness" to people...
So I think she could be quite hard to befriend.
As for Pss Michael I'l have to check but I believe that she wrote to Diana when the divorce was happening to say that she was sorry and that Di mus not think of curtsying to her..

 

[Dee Anna]

..... As for Pss Michael I'l have to check but I believe that she wrote to Diana when the divorce was happening to say that she was sorry and that Di mus not think of curtsying to her..

I remember reading something like that at the time which I felt was a show of support.

I think at best we can only second guess as to what Diana's relationship with the various members of her family in law were and how they changed down through the years, especially towards the end of the marrriage.

Of course, the media intrusion can't have helped(!) going to town as they did with headlines along the lines that Di would bring down the monarchy! Only doing their job and both Charles and Diana gave those interviews so all bets and gloves were off!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Curryong, Dman, Katrianna, and Denville, Thank you all for commenting on Princess Diana's relationship with the Royals.

 

[Curryong]

You are welcome, Cyril. Actually I enjoy posting about it all!

 

[Denville]

Actually, the HM and Prince Philip were still quite fond of Diana and supported her against Charles during the Troubles. It was the Panorama interview that upset them and they then joined the rest of the Royals in circling the wagons. Royal Family.

I think that at first the Queen and Phil were fond of Diana, she was the granddaughter of the QMs good friend, she was part of the Royal friends circle and she seemed a sweet girl, whom they knew from her childhood at Sandringham. And I think that when she married Charles, the indications are that they didn't worry about the Camilla situation or about her age etc.. they seemed genuinely pleased that she was marrying him, clearly felt that she was a sweet lovely girl and that it was great that the public and press seemed ot have taken such a liking to her....
But I think after a few years, perhaps they were aware of problems, and that whle they might feel that Charles wasn't the best husband, and whenever the affair with Cam re started, they certainly did not approve of it, but I think they were aware that Diana was not fitting in... and that was part of the marital problem,
Even early on, there are reports of the queen saying that Diana was not an easy guest at Balmoral, saying "there she sits looking gloomy and the only time she cheers up is when Charles talks to her." and a courtier saying that perhaps Diana found it hard to talk to guests who were a lot older than her..
And the queen was clearly not sympathetic, she said "She'll have to get used to it..!"
I think that in private they saw a Diana who was a lot more difficult and less "sweet" than she had appeared at first, and that she was often at odds with them, in the family circle.. not enjoying shooting and Balmoral, wanting to eat on her own instead of the big social dinners etc.. and the queen wasn't too happy with it and felt that Di had to fit in and learn to socialise with the family and their friends in private... not just be a wonderful princess with the public.
It seems the queen DID try to help her, and was always there to listen to her pouring out her woes and cryng, but she didn't understand her. I think she had some genuine sympathy, she could see that Di was nervy and highly strung and that she had a hard time fitting in, but her attitude was that Di had married intot the RF, and if it was a mistake, she had to live with it and put up with any problems..
She tried ot keep her on side, to be some kind of help but she didn't really understand a lot of what was upsetting Di, and could not help that much..
I think by the time of Panorama, she felt that she could not trust or deal with Di any more, that she was too volatile and that while it pained her to insist on a divorce it was the only solution, and she was now not all that sympathetic and only supported Di a bit for the sake of the Grandchidrlen...

 

[Denville]

I can't remember where I read it, but I have read that at one stage when both Sarah and Di were separated from their husbands, and Diana was "at outs" with Sarah, they were both invited to Balmoral or somewhere that the queen was staying.. and the queen began to fret about the fuss that all this would entail.. and finally said that she would have Sarah to stay but not Diana. So I think that even though in some ways Sarah had behaved badly the queen felt that she was less "trouble" to have visiting than Diana. I think that she just found her first daughter in law very wearing, whereas with Sarah there was still a feeling of "she's stupid and does stupid things but seh's not so drama queeny".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Phil? Cam? Di? Is it too much asked to write their normal names for us, simple mortals, whom were not so privately close to the royal family as you seems to have been?

 

[tommy100]

I can't remember where I read it, but I have read that at one stage when both Sarah and Di were separated from their husbands, and Diana was "at outs" with Sarah, they were both invited to Balmoral or somewhere that the queen was staying.. and the queen began to fret about the fuss that all this would entail.. and finally said that she would have Sarah to stay but not Diana. So I think that even though in some ways Sarah had behaved badly the queen felt that she was less "trouble" to have visiting than Diana. I think that she just found her first daughter in law very wearing, whereas with Sarah there was still a feeling of "she's stupid and does stupid things but seh's not so drama queeny".

This I can believe in so much as i think the Queen felt more comfortable with Sarah and could talk to her and relate to her more, I think they had more of a personal relationship than the Queen and Diana did. I think the Queen felt she had more 'control' (not in a bad way) of Sarah.

 

[Denville]

I think that's true, yes but OTOH, by later years, Sarah was not in favour with the RF, esp Philip. I think that while they felt that Diana had SOME justice in her complaints against Charles, Sarah had nothing really to complain about, and yet she had been the first one to jump out of her marriage, she had been caught with a man, half naked, embarrassing them.. etc. So I think that's why they wrote her off with a rather meagre divorce settlement, and kept her at a distance. That is why I think its significant that the queen (if I am remembering this story correctly) seemed to feel on that ocassaion..."I Can take Sarah, but I just cant face Diana...".
I think she totally did not understand Diana, and felt that she increasingly could not predict what Diana would do...

 

[Dee Anna]

..... I think that while they felt that Diana had SOME justice in her complaints against Charles, Sarah had nothing really to complain about, and yet she had been the first one to jump out of her marriage, she had been caught with a man, half naked, embarrassing them.. etc. So I think that's why they wrote her off with a rather meagre divorce settlement, and kept her at a distance. That is why I think its significant that the queen (if I am remembering this story correctly) seemed to feel on that ocassaion..."I Can take Sarah, but I just cant face Diana...".
I think she totally did not understand Diana, and felt that she increasingly could not predict what Diana would do...

Yes, that could be a lot of it. They - Elizabeth and Philip - knew Diana had serious reason (well one at any rate!) for her marriage problems whereas Sarah - apparently - had none, in the sense no one else on Andrew's side was involved. Only there are a lot more reasons other than people (obviously a huge reason!) why a marriage can break down.

 

[minas82]

I completely agree with you. She was do young when she married Charles and he was much older. He seems to have expected a wife Who would accept his affair. She thought she was marrying prince charming Who loved her. When Diana was thrust into the press frency it was a pretty shy, unsecure girl. She did not have much experience with boys , and partying. While Charles had led a life of bachelorhood for years. And how inconsiderate can one be, to wear a set of cufflinks with the initials of your exgirlfriend and your own entwined, on your honeymoon??? I don't think Diana was an angel, No one is. But to me it seems that Charles was rather inconsiderate to his New wife.

Regarding her realtionship to Prince Phillip, I think he was understanding to a lot of her struggle, having seen his mum struggle so much too

 

[Denville]

I completely agree with you. She was do young when she married Charles and he was much older. He seems to have expected a wife Who would accept his affair. She thought she was marrying prince charming WhoI don't think Diana was an angel, No one is. But to me it seems that Charles was rather inconsiderate to his New wife.

Regarding her realtionship to Prince Phillip, I think he was understanding to a lot of her struggle, having seen his mum struggle so much too

No I don't think that Philip was that understanding. I think he was fond of Diana at first but soon got fed up with her. And Diana Did have expernece of "boys and partying.." Perhaps not as much as some girls but she had boyfriends, she had a social life..
Phil did write to Diana saying that "what Charles had done was very wrong" but asked her to consider that perhaps her behaviour had made it hard for him to live with her.. and since she had affairs herself I'm sure he wouldl have considered them "very wrong" too.

Yes, that could be a lot of it. They - Elizabeth and Philip - knew Diana had serious reason (well one at any rate!) for her marriage problems whereas Sarah - apparently - had none, in the sense no one else on Andrew's side was involved. Only there are a lot more reasons other than people (obviously a huge reason!) why a marriage can break down.

I think that they felt that Diana had don a better job as Princess than Sarah had done as Duchess of York and that she had to contend with Chas' feelings for Camilla. And Diana had mostly avoided the silly behaviour that got Sarah bad headlines, though she did join in Sar's pranks a bit...
BUT That makes it I think significant that if the queen apparently felt that in some ways, Sarah bad as she was, was less difficult to deal with than Diana...

 

[Osipi]

Sometimes I have to believe that HM, The Queen and the DoE were kind of put into a space between a rock and a hard place when it came to dealing with their daughter-in-laws Diana and Sarah. We have to remember that as well as being a family with their own internal problems, there was also the repercussions of the effect on the family business, the monarchy and how the public perceived their actions. As much as they may have liked, respected and understood these women, they also had to consider what the effects of their actions would be on the reputation of the "Firm".

I think HM found it wise to learn from Teddy Roosevelt and "speak softly and carry a big stick" in these matters.

 

[Denville]

I don't think that they either liked, or respected or understood them very well! I think they could not really understand why Diana didn't just ignore C's affair and get on with her life. They weren't approving of her having affairs, but clearly they did not think it was terrible provided she was discreet.
They could not understand why sarah was so silly and vulgar, and why she could not cope with Andy being away, it was to be expected if you marry a Naval officer..
I think they started out with some affection for both women but it soon changed to bewilderment and annoyance..

 

[Mermaid1962]

I think that Sarah was as she appeared to be. However, I think that Diana could be sly and unpredictable.

BUT That makes it I think significant that if the queen apparently felt that in some ways, Sarah bad as she was, was less difficult to deal with than Diana...

 

[Denville]

I'm not sure. I think that Sarah could be unpredictable too. I am sure the RF never envisaged her doing all the stupid things that she did manage to do. I think they felt that she was maybe a bit vulgar, a bit wild but she would learn to smooth that down.. but instead she got sillier and sillier as she went along..
She lied too, putting it out that Johnny Bryan was just a friend etc and then its being discovered that he was her lover and was fooling round with her in front of her children.
And insofar as she IS "what you see is what you get", it isn't good. I would have thought that she was so obviously silly and vulgar showed up right at the very beginning, and the queen should realy have spotted it....

 

[Lee-Z]

The Queen most have done some tossing and turning at night in those years with two daughters in law who took way more time in "adjusting to the Firm" than she must have ever imagined... and eventually imo it took some adjusting of The Firm itself

 

[Denville]

True, but some of it IMO was her own fault. I just think it was VERY obvious that Sarah was not cut out for royal life and the queen should have seen that. And I think that it is a good idea that changes have happened so that the royals dont have to "look for a virgin bride" any more and can take a long enough time to get to know their boy/girlfriends.

 

[Jacknch]

Lets please stay on topic - this thread is about Diana's relationship with the Queen and other members of the royal family, not an analysis on Sarah's character traits or suitability to be a member of the Royal Family.

 

[Denville]

True I think that possibly Di was as bad. In the sense that she was very volatile and immature when she married Charles and she found the RF hard to hit it off with.
She was very good at the public side of the job, but in a way that made her worse in private, in that she probably felt that (while she was in awe of the queen) she was much more popular and able to get on with people than most of the Royals, so she didn't need to cosy up to them so much. I think that the queen did realise her value to the RF, as a wonderfully popular Princess, so she tried to tolerate Di's private difficulties. But she still found Diana hard to understand, she could not see why she got so upset about things, or why she could not just ignore Charles's affair, say to herself that the marriage wasn't perfect, and that "men did that sort of thing" and turn a blind eye...