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  #601  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Iluvbertie, yes, the royal family and Diana had their differences and they didn't always get along. That's called family! That's just how the cookie crumbles in every family.

There's no proof that they wanted Diana to die or was satisfied that she was no longer in the picture. If they wanted, wished or was even satisfied that Diana died and was no longer around, then why in Gods name are people still supporting the royal family who's hearts are made by the devil?

I have not seen not one piece of proof they wanted her dead. They had their ups and downs, but I bet all the money in my bank that the royal family were shocked by her dying from a car accident. The Windosrs can be too stiff, starchy and formal. They can act like they have a 10ft pole up their behinds, and God knows The Queen Mother was often the biggest #*%^+ of them all, but I don't think she or any member of the family was happy about Diana's passing.

I do think William has a right to be upset that the adults that surrounded his mother in those days, didn't bother to help her and understand what she was going through at her desperate days.
Maybe Princess Margaret, since Margaret and the Queen Mother were vexed with Diana after the 1995 interview.
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  #602  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
Maybe Princess Margaret, since Margaret and the Queen Mother were vexed with Diana after the 1995 interview.
Again, we only know from what has been made public about Margaret's reaction to Diana's death. We know its been reported that she was perturbed at having to cut her holiday short in Mustique for the funeral but other than that, we have no clue what Margaret thought or what her feelings were.
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  #603  
Old 06-08-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
Well, I have no doubt that she was glad when Diana died and thought her funeral should have taken place in the backyard church at Sandrigham with no members of the RF in attendance.

The Princess, even though divorced, would always be a loose end for the family. Therefore, for a traditionalist like the Queen Mother, her death was for the best.
There always would have been members of the Royal Family attending. William and Harry would have gone no matter what and no one would have sent them on their own.
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  #604  
Old 06-08-2017, 08:28 PM
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Regardless of what any members of the royal family privately thought, one thing was very obvious to anyone that cared to look enough is the deep concern and the closing of the ranks around Diana's sons during the first few days after the accident. Charles amplified this by the level of concern, respect and care that he put upon himself to assure that his ex-wife was returned home to the UK and properly mourned and went above and beyond the call of duty in handling arrangements.

My opinion is that from what I've seen and read, animosity towards Diana or her actions or her ideas by the royal family was never something that came to the forefront at all during this time. No one spoke badly of her publicly and the stiff resolve of the family to keep calm and carry on remained intact. The one person that I would attribute this attitude to would be the Queen Mum herself. She always stood strong in the face of adversity which, I believe, also contributed to why George VI was able to be the strong king that he was during WWII.
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  #605  
Old 06-08-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no idea but I am sure that there was an element of relief with certain members at her passing as she would no longer be able to tell lies about them, create havoc or be a loose cannon. In addition they now had total control over the boys rather than have her influences - both positive and negative - on them.
I have to agree, there would have been relief that with her death the public spectacle would be over. Unfortunate way for it to end but there it was. As for the boys, her influence and 'control' may be stronger in memory than if they had lived through a normal relationship with their mother through their adolescence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I do think William has a right to be upset that the adults that surrounded his mother in those days, didn't bother to help her and understand what she was going through at her desperate days.
Which days were those? During the marriage? In the 80's? Because if you mean then, Charles was doing a great deal trying to get Diana help. However, she refused the help. Therapists were supplied, but she never persevered with any of them. How do you help someone who refuses help?

If you mean during the separation and then divorce: were those the 'desperate days'? If you mean then, she was removing herself from the BRF's influence. How would they have been able to help her at that time?

I am puzzled when were Diana's 'desperate days'? And why anyone believes Diana would have been able to listen to anyone who might try to help. And who would it have been? The divorced husband and his family, or her own natal family?

But all this is considerably off-topic. Could the posts be transferred to the correct Diana thread?
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  #606  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I didn't say that they did want her dead but equally I an unable to say that they didn't.

I notice that you didn't answer the questions I asked?

1. How do you know?

2. Are you projecting your own attitudes onto the BRF?

I would like actual answers to those two specific questions not long-winded statements about your opinions but answers to Question 1 and Question 2.
If ou really think that there is a posislbity that they wanted her dead, you must think very poorly of them. They wished that she would disappear into obscurity, I am sure. They hoped she'd gradually bore the public and be less In the news.. they hoped that she might lead a quieter life and not be around so much.. but that they might have wished her dead, seem to me quite an appalling thing to suppose. Unless they are truly heartless horrible people... they could nto wish death on a young woman who is the mother of 2 of their young relatives.
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  #607  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:45 AM
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From where I'm reading, to me it seems like Iluvbertie was stating the point that she couldn't or could say that anyone in the BRF wanted Diana dead. None of us know their thoughts.

This is quickly becoming Diana focused and I think we should revert back to the topic of Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother. There's plenty of other Diana threads elsewhere.
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  #608  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:51 AM
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Are most people close to their former inlaws following a very acrimonious divorce? I'd suggest not, (even though there are usually efforts to be cordial at least for the sake of any children on some family occasions), so why should the BRF and their divorced former relatives be any different? (We did see Diana and Charles interacting fine on several occasions such as William's confirmation ceremony.)

As for the neighbours, most members of the BRF, wherever they live, don't make a habit of calling in on their own siblings etc let alone former inlaws, so why would Margaret's and Princess Michael's attitudes necessarily bother Diana? She might catch a glimpse of them arriving or leaving once in a blue moon and that would be it.
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  #609  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
[.....]

Even Diana's divorce decree stated that although she would lose her HRH status, she would always still be considered as a member of the royal family. [.....]
Can you provide a link tot that divorce decree? It is a most unlikely addition to such decrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Are most people close to their former inlaws following a very acrimonious divorce? I'd suggest not, (even though there are usually efforts to be cordial at least for the sake of any children on some family occasions), so why should the BRF and their divorced former relatives be any different? (We did see Diana and Charles interacting fine on several occasions such as William's confirmation ceremony.)

As for the neighbours, most members of the BRF, wherever they live, don't make a habit of calling in on their own siblings etc let alone former inlaws, so why would Margaret's and Princess Michael's attitudes necessarily bother Diana? She might catch a glimpse of them arriving or leaving once in a blue moon and that would be it.
Indeed, I hardly see the neighbours in the appartmentcomplex where I live, let alone Diana in that sprawling palace complex of Kensington, where one can easily arrive and go unnoticed thanks to the many enclosed courtyards and a complicated floorplan.

Picture.
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  #610  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Can you provide a link tot that divorce decree? It is a most unlikely addition to such decrees.
The actual papers filed by the court are not available that I can find but I did find a reputable source reporting on the conditions of the divorce. It states:

"The removal of the "Royal Highness" title, which separates the royal family from the rest of British nobility, officially obliges Diana to curtsey to others who have it -- her ex-husband, for instance, and even her own children. But the palace said, rather cryptically, that Princess Diana will continue to be "regarded as a member of the royal family" and "will from time to time receive invitations to state and national public occasions" at the invitation "of the sovereign or the Government."

Information for the article comes from a statement issued by Buckingham Palace.

Charles and Diana Agree on Divorce Terms - The New York Times
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  #611  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The actual papers filed by the court are not available that I can find but I did find a reputable source reporting on the conditions of the divorce. It states:

"The removal of the "Royal Highness" title, which separates the royal family from the rest of British nobility, officially obliges Diana to curtsey to others who have it -- her ex-husband, for instance, and even her own children. But the palace said, rather cryptically, that Princess Diana will continue to be "regarded as a member of the royal family" and "will from time to time receive invitations to state and national public occasions" at the invitation "of the sovereign or the Government."

Information for the article comes from a statement issued by Buckingham Palace.

Charles and Diana Agree on Divorce Terms - The New York Times
Oh okay, that is more an intention than a written fact on a decree. Even Sarah Ferguson remains in the surroundings of the royal family because she is and remains the mother of two princesses.
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  #612  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
The Queen Mother did not get along with Diana, Princess of Wales. She probably didn't feel concern for her great-grandsons William and Harry. She, along with her younger daughter Margaret, and son-in-law Philip, was fumed when Diana did that 1995 TV interview.





I wonder how she would have approved Harry and Meghan's relationship since she was a racist?



She was born in 1900, when racial attitudes where much stiff.


That surprises me since she was good friends with Frances' mother, Lady Ruth Fermoy.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If ou really think that there is a posislbity that they wanted her dead, you must think very poorly of them. They wished that she would disappear into obscurity, I am sure. They hoped she'd gradually bore the public and be less In the news.. they hoped that she might lead a quieter life and not be around so much.. but that they might have wished her dead, seem to me quite an appalling thing to suppose. Unless they are truly heartless horrible people... they could nto wish death on a young woman who is the mother of 2 of their young relatives.

My mom says that the note saying "they're planning an accident in my car" in her handwriting could have been written by a professional forger after the fact.


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  #613  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:02 PM
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what does that mean? I said nothing about this note...
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  #614  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:43 PM
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I expect that the Queen Mother liked Diana enough during the engagement period and early in the marriage. She had Diana visit her at Birkhall and put her up for two or three nights after the engagement announcement. Had she advised Charles against courting Diana, I think that he'd have listened to her. The QM looked happy enough the day of the wedding.
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  #615  
Old 06-10-2017, 03:37 AM
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I' think that all the RF liked Diana at the start, and the queen Mum was no exceetion. Chalres is her favourite grandchild and she was happy to see him married and I'm sure she felt that her friend Ruth's granddaughter was a sweet pretty young girl and she seemed perfect for the RF. She was young, shy but friendly, able to handle the public and the press.. and she seemed to love Charles. but I think that Di was so unhappy on the honeymoon even at Balmoral, that she was obviously losing weight, depressed, hating the place etc and I think that they all started ot have misgivings about her. I'd say the QM was prepared to like her - but once it seemed that she wasn't fitting in with the royal routines, that she and Charles weren't getting on so well etc, she was bound to be a bit cooler towards her. He was her grandson, and she naturally wanted Diana to make him happy.
I think that the RF hoped that Di's unhappiness in the first few months was from depression and illness caused by her pregnancy.. and that she'd settle in..
However as time passed and she was clearly suffering from continuing depression and weight loss, and the marriage seemed to be struggling, they got more uneasy.. and felt that it was Diana who was the problem and that it wasn't getting any better. And of course an old conservative woman like the QM was not goig to approve of Diana courting the media, upstaging her husband, having affairs etc etc. I think she gave up on her.. and while I think she was shocked at her sudden death, she did not like Diana by then
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  #616  
Old 06-10-2017, 04:37 AM
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The loyalty of the late Queen Eliabeth was with the monarchy. That ancient institution which was embodied by her late husband, by her daughter and in the future by her beloved grandson Charles.

Anyone who was a threat to the monarchy, naturally would become an "enemy" of the institution where the lifelong loyalty of the late Queen Elizabeth was: the monarchy.

Lady Diana Spencer was a perfect "candidate" for the future King. She gave an immense boost to he monarchy, to the Heir and "issued" successors to secure the procreation of the royal dynasty. No wonder the late Queen Elizabeth, herself an Earl's daughter, liked Diana.

But when Diana turned from being an asset to the monarchy into a threat (she even openly did doubt the suitability of the Heir, the most deadly sin imagineable) it was no wonder she fell out of favour with the late Queen Elizabeth. She had not fought all her life for the institution of her so beloved late husband, of her eldest daughter, of her eldest grandson, to see it under fire by an in-law who turned out to be a Trojan horse by allowing the media access-from-within to the close-knit bastion of the royal family, even more: to open the palace windows to hang out the dirty linen for all the public to see.

Is it really a wonder Diana felt out of grace and favour of the late Queen Elizabeth? And the old lady was known for her stance: once out of her favour, always out of her favour!
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  #617  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:04 PM
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No wonder at all. Any family would close ranks against a married-in who blabbed about family problems to the wider community.

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Is it really a wonder Diana felt out of grace and favour of the late Queen Elizabeth? And the old lady was known for her stance: once out of her favour, always out of her favour!
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  #618  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:38 PM
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no of course the QM didn't like Diana problaby from early on in the marriage, when she felt that D wasn't making Chas happy.
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  #619  
Old 06-10-2017, 04:48 PM
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Love the person; hate the problems

Apparently Diana suffered from some form or forms of mental illness. Anyone who has had a mentally ill family member knows that you can hate the behaviors, and resent the problems, but you never wish for that person to be dead. You suffer along with them, and you wish and pray for their well-being, but it would take a black heart indeed to wish for their death, or to be pleased if/when it occurs. We all suffer with problems in life; if dealing with a loved one's mental illness is your problem, then you deal with it.
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  #620  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that all the RF liked Diana at the start, and the queen Mum was no exception. Chalres is her favourite grandchild and she was happy to see him married and I'm sure she felt that her friend Ruth's granddaughter was a sweet pretty young girl and she seemed perfect for the RF. She was young, shy but friendly, able to handle the public and the press.. and she seemed to love Charles. but I think that Di was so unhappy on the honeymoon even at Balmoral, that she was obviously losing weight, depressed, hating the place etc and I think that they all started ot have misgivings about her.
The 'trouble' with Diana started after the engagement was announced. The BRF was put at bay pretty quickly. A very different side of Diana emerged after the engagement announcement. Every step of the way her behavior was excused: she is nervous, she will be better after the wedding, to.... she will be better after the child is born, to.....something else. The 'settling' never happened, until she went her own way and effectively 'left' the marriage in the mid-1980's. It appears that, except for the very earliest years of the marriage, the mid to late 80's were Diana's most contented time as a Royal.
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