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  #501  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:50 PM
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I think its entirely possible that the support and sympathies and understandings of Diana within the Royal Family was very much offered but Diana didn't feel it was the right kind that she wanted. Suggestions of doctors wasn't support in her eyes but fawning over her and wanting to make things better for her might have been. We've seen how time and time again its been stated that Diana wanted Charles' attention far and above what would be deemed "normal" to the point of exclusively focusing on her.

I think a lot of it had to do with how Diana saw things. Another point is that as time passed and she grew to be more and more popular and loved by the media and the public, I do think she turned to this kind of attention to make herself feel better and may have wondered why her own husband and his family didn't see her that way.

These are my own thoughts and not intended to state for a fact that this is the way things were.
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  #502  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:57 PM
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I am not saying Di was always right but I do think that the sympathy of the RF was limited. I don't think they had no feelings for her, but I think that at first they were like "why is she such a nuisance" - very soon intot her marriage.
Perhaps they weren't to blame for thinking of her as an adult who should be able to get herself into "knowing the job" - but I feel she was very very young and young for her age and I would have thought that was obvious to people seeing her close up.
Perhaps she did need more caring and noticing than the average but look how wonderfully she was able to act with the public and how much good she did for the RF and her charities, when supported.
I don't know if she was realy asking that much from Charles, ti was just that HE was busy, he had his work, he had his hobbies that he was used to pursuing alone or with close friends and family and he had an ongoing feeling for Camilla, so Diana may have been right in feeling that she got the last few bits of his attention.
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  #503  
Old 08-19-2016, 05:39 PM
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Pictures of Diana with The Duke of Edinburgh, Princess Anne and Queen Mother:
https://mobile.twitter.com/RoyaleVis...60796793360384

https://mobile.twitter.com/RoyaleVis...63411841306624
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  #504  
Old 08-20-2016, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I Suggestions of doctors wasn't support in her eyes but fawning over her and wanting to make things better for her might have been. We've seen how time and time again its been stated that Diana wanted Charles' attention far and above what would be deemed "normal" to the point of exclusively focusing on her.

I the way things were.
I think in Di's defence, she was new ot the family and to the life. She was insanely populuar with the public and so the meida attention was crazy, and she was ill. both physically and psychologically. But to sort of say "oh she needs a doctor, medical attention, a psychiatrist.." well I can see how that would nto go down well I think with anyone, if it was just done rather coolly.. and with a fragile girl like Diana, it would really seem like a hateful rebuff to say "Hey we think you're ill, going crazy, you need to see a shrink."
If I'm not mistaken doctors and pyschiatrists were called in very early, when perhaps she might have been helped by some "focussing on her" not fawning but Charles giving her a lot of attention and being a really 99% there loving husband. MAYBE. We can't say for sure.
But I feel that when Charles did start to focus, it was already a bit too late.. He took her away for a sunny holiday when she was pregnant with William but he brought the Romseys along. There are photos of them cuddling in the water, on a beach. But that holday was also ruined by photographers getting snaps of them with Diana in her bikini..
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  #505  
Old 08-21-2016, 02:05 AM
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Denville, you have a much better memory than I do, so you'll probably remember the episode more clearly. In the late 90's and it could have been either after the Wales separation or even the divorce. Diana announced she was giving up most of her charities and before the announcement she stated something like, "excuse me, while I have my nervous breakdown" or something to the effect and then she made another comment about taking Prozac or the "perception" that she needed Prozac. The clip was shown on the news everywhere and of course, Diana was being sarcastic in her remarks about her mental health. I can't for the life of me remember the events leading up to the reasons for her remarks. I know they were pointedly at Charles and the RF.
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  #506  
Old 08-21-2016, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
Denville, you have a much better memory than I do, so you'll probably remember the episode more clearly. In the late 90's and it could have been either after the Wales separation or even the divorce. Diana announced she was giving up most of her charities and before the announcement she stated something like, "excuse me, while I have my nervous breakdown" or something to the effect and then she made another comment about taking Prozac or the "perception" that she needed Prozac. The clip was shown on the news everywhere and of course, Diana was being sarcastic in her remarks about her mental health. I can't for the life of me remember the events leading up to the reasons for her remarks. I know they were pointedly at Charles and the RF.
She was just taking some time out for herself.
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  #507  
Old 08-21-2016, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
Denville, you have a much better memory than I do, so you'll probably remember the episode more clearly. In the late 90's and it could have been either after the Wales separation or even the divorce. Diana announced she was giving up most of her charities and before the announcement she stated something like, "excuse me, while I have my nervous breakdown" or something to the effect and then she made another comment about taking Prozac or the "perception" that she needed Prozac. The clip was shown on the news everywhere and of course, Diana was being sarcastic in her remarks about her mental health. I can't for the life of me remember the events leading up to the reasons for her remarks. I know they were pointedly at Charles and the RF.
Goodness I am flattered honestly cos i have a terrible memory. I can't remember passwords for my email!!

I dont think that that was when she gave up her charities.. I think she was responding to a story that she was ill or depressed (She was separated from C) and MAYBE it was rumoured that she was giving up on royal/charity work. I dont think she dropped all the charities till the eve of her divorce). IN fact I think teh story was that hr bulimia was recurring and she was giving up work for a time.

She did have a time, during the separation, when she asked for time and space, but did continue with chairty work. However she then dropped all but 6 charities, because of her divorce and siad she's going ot concentrate on a few charities and give them more attention. but it didn't work out so well...

I know the clip you mean. I don't recall her mentioning Prozac but she did say that according to the newspapers, she was supposed to be "having her head down the loo" (a ref to her bulimia), but that she wasn't. That she was postponing her nervous breakdown till she had more time for it, and that she was going on with her work for the charity she was at, at the time.

No I dont think ti was directed at Charles or the RF, rather at the Press for the story that she was breaking down. (And I think that she DID sound a bit hystericial during that clip, I think the strain of being in a disputed situation with the RF and separated from C was telling).

In general I dont beleive that she openly criticised C or the RF, she woudl usually be careful to say that the queen had been supportive, or that she understood why Charles was hurt by her popularity in the beginning of the marrage...
The main thing I can remember her publicly saying about the RF was that she felt they hadn't understood her bulimia or her post natal depression.. that maybe noone in the RF had ever had it...
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  #508  
Old 08-22-2016, 01:31 AM
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Thank you for remembering. All I could remember from the clip was Diana's preface about her putting off her nervous breakdown to attend the event. It was, as I wrote, a sarcastic response to the, now that I know, media. I could recall the clip of her speech and a little of what she spoke about, but couldn't place the actually reason for her remarks. I can't even remember what I did yesterday!
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  #509  
Old 08-22-2016, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
now that I know, media. I could recall the clip of her speech and a little of what she spoke about, but couldn't place the actually reason for her remarks. I can't even remember what I did yesterday!
I saw it on a TV prog about Diana a few weeks ago, I can't remember what charity it was but roughly speaking, I think, it was in 1993 soon after her separation, she said she was taking some time out.. but she did continue to do charity work after a short break. And somewhere after that, she responded to a report that her bulima had returned... and that was in that speech.
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  #510  
Old 08-23-2016, 01:47 PM
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Yes, Diana sounded very edgy in that speech. Too Edgy. She was in a bad way then. I found that the speeches that she made in the 90s (except for the landmine ban ones) made many veiled and not-so-veiled references to her personal life. I didn't care for that because the speeches, in my view, should be exclusively about the cause the talks are given for. Peter Settelen encouraged her to put a lot of her own emotions in her speeches, and I don't think that was particularly helpful. I found Diana's early speeches more endearing. She didn't have great technique, but she concentrated on the charity or event at hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I know the clip you mean. I don't recall her mentioning Prozac but she did say that according to the newspapers, she was supposed to be "having her head down the loo" (a ref to her bulimia), but that she wasn't. That she was postponing her nervous breakdown till she had more time for it, and that she was going on with her work for the charity she was at, at the time.
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  #511  
Old 08-23-2016, 06:04 PM
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I think it helped, her mentioning obliquely things from her own life. She did'nt have to explicitly say "I was bulimic" but could hint at it.. and I think it helped her listeners,
I do think she was very stressed at the time of that speech though and just struggling to keep going...
And I think that by then the RF really would have liked her to give up her public role.. and she herself was realy worn out.. so while I wish she had stuck ot the charity work more firmly, I think she was brave in just keeping on iwht it. The Court circular had stopped publicising her engagements
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  #512  
Old 08-25-2016, 11:12 PM
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Elizabeth The Queen Mother regarded Diana as beyond the pale. Elizabeth was horrified that Diana could threaten to tear the whole fabric of the family apart.
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  #513  
Old 08-26-2016, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Elizabeth The Queen Mother regarded Diana as beyond the pale. Elizabeth was horrified that Diana could threaten to tear the whole fabric of the family apart.
That would never have happened. Diana wasn't a threat to the royal family. It's just her and Charles went through a bad marriage and the family and palace didn't handle very well.

The royal family went through much worse things than a divorce.
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  #514  
Old 08-26-2016, 02:18 AM
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She was a threat. She gave tehe RF's reputation a knock and it took some years to recover.
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  #515  
Old 08-26-2016, 05:48 AM
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She was a threat. She gave tehe RF's reputation a knock and it took some years to recover.
No, she wasn't a threat. The royals never really had the best reputation to begin with, but the only thing the family went through was some bad PR and some family issues. The institution of the monarchy is too old and too strong for a divorce to make it crumble. The Windsors have seen divorce, death, and scandals before. Nothing what Charles and Diana went through was new for the royal family. It will take a huge set of catastrophic events to make that monarchy come down.
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  #516  
Old 08-26-2016, 06:49 AM
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Yes, and probably not even then. Look at Edward VIIIs abdication. We know that many Britons had worshipped him, felt let down by his actions, but within a short period of time the allegiance had shifted to King George VI. If George IIIs madness, George IVs terrible extravagance and Victoria hiding away from public view for well over a decade didn't cause a British republic, it's hard to know what will!
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  #517  
Old 08-26-2016, 09:35 AM
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you cant really compare the attitudes to the Monarchcy in George III's time or Victoria's with attitudes In the late 20th C. At that time most people didn't have the vote and the upper classes who were the political nation, weren't likely to want to get rid of it.. even if they disliked individual monrarchs.
but in the late 20th C there are plenty of republics in the world, the political nation is much more radical and nothing lasts forever. THe Monarchy did survive the crises of the divorces etc but IMO it was a bit of a near thing. I think that what saved it was not just residual affection for the monarchy, or respect for the queen.. but the fact that Diana, who was challenging it, was acting rather wildly and even people who sympathised with her, were a bit wary of her behaviour.
Tthe monarchy lasted because nobody really had any great will to get rid of it.. even republicans, because of a certain lethargy in the British public. and also I think mainly becauase Diana's complaints were at first seen as justifiable, but when she got wilder, and was acting more "crazy", people were less inclined to sympathise with her and felt that perhaps the monarchy wasn't too bad after all.
I think that all these factors did help, but Diana's behaviour was unprecedented and so was Charles'. Both of them admitted ot adultery. She went on TV to say that her husband should not be King, and that he was a bad husband.. THey were damaging the monarchy with their war, and It was so bad and so scary that it finally galvanised the queen into ordering a divorce. So of course the RF felt angry towards her and felt that she had wanted to brng the whole show down...
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  #518  
Old 08-26-2016, 10:04 AM
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you cant really compare the attitudes to the Monarchcy in George III's time or Victoria's with attitudes In the late 20th C. At that time most people didn't have the vote and the upper classes who were the political nation, weren't likely to want to get rid of it.. even if they disliked individual monrarchs.
but in the late 20th C there are plenty of republics in the world, the political nation is much more radical and nothing lasts forever. THe Monarchy did survive the crises of the divorces etc but IMO it was a bit of a near thing. I think that what saved it was not just residual affection for the monarchy, or respect for the queen.. but the fact that Diana, who was challenging it, was acting rather wildly and even people who sympathised with her, were a bit wary of her behaviour.
Tthe monarchy lasted because nobody really had any great will to get rid of it.. even republicans, because of a certain lethargy in the British public. and also I think mainly becauase Diana's complaints were at first seen as justifiable, but when she got wilder, and was acting more "crazy", people were less inclined to sympathise with her and felt that perhaps the monarchy wasn't too bad after all.
I think that all these factors did help, but Diana's behaviour was unprecedented and so was Charles'. Both of them admitted ot adultery. She went on TV to say that her husband should not be King, and that he was a bad husband.. THey were damaging the monarchy with their war, and It was so bad and so scary that it finally galvanised the queen into ordering a divorce. So of course the RF felt angry towards her and felt that she had wanted to brng the whole show down...
The only thing that was unique during Charles and Diana's sitution was the modern age press that made everything seem like it was the worst thing ever. Diana didn't do anything to threaten the monarchy.

Her relationship with the family was cool, but pretty much typical of a in-law relationship. We like each other today, but tomorrow can be another story.
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  #519  
Old 08-26-2016, 10:10 AM
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Most French in the late 18th century, Spaniards in the 19th or Russians in the early 20th century didn't have the vote either, but it didn't stop the storming of the Bastille, the cutting off of the King and Queen's heads, nor the murders in Ekaterinburg, or the permanent exile of Queen Isabella.

If you look at British history at certain points, in the early 19th century before 1815, at the time of the Reform Laws in 1832 (people didn't have the vote then either) things could have gone either way. The state of political franchise has never prevented a mob determined to get rid of a monarchy from doing anything.

Anyway, that poll that I posted recently showed there was still support for the monarchy in the high 60's in the very week of Diana's funeral.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
you cant really compare the attitudes to the Monarchcy in George III's time or Victoria's with attitudes In the late 20th C. At that time most people didn't have the vote and the upper classes who were the political nation, weren't likely to want to get rid of it.. even if they disliked individual monrarchs.
but in the late 20th C there are plenty of republics in the world, the political nation is much more radical and nothing lasts forever. THe Monarchy did survive the crises of the divorces etc but IMO it was a bit of a near thing. I think that what saved it was not just residual affection for the monarchy, or respect for the queen.. but the fact that Diana, who was challenging it, was acting rather wildly and even people who sympathised with her, were a bit wary of her behaviour.
Tthe monarchy lasted because nobody really had any great will to get rid of it.. even republicans, because of a certain lethargy in the British public. and also I think mainly becauase Diana's complaints were at first seen as justifiable, but when she got wilder, and was acting more "crazy", people were less inclined to sympathise with her and felt that perhaps the monarchy wasn't too bad after all.
I think that all these factors did help, but Diana's behaviour was unprecedented and so was Charles'. Both of them admitted ot adultery. She went on TV to say that her husband should not be King, and that he was a bad husband.. THey were damaging the monarchy with their war, and It was so bad and so scary that it finally galvanised the queen into ordering a divorce. So of course the RF felt angry towards her and felt that she had wanted to brng the whole show down...
In the 20th century with the media being able to get this war out and into the homes of the public and fodder for talk over the back yard fence, it does seem to be a bit unprecedented for our modern times but adultery within the monarchy has been ongoing for centuries. I would even go as far to state that perhaps it was even acceptable for the most part as long as it was done discreetly.

During this period, it wasn't only Diana and Charles that were headed towards the divorce court but so did Anne and Mark and Andrew and Sarah. Out of all of them, Diana was the most vocal and I believe she was seen more of an embarrassment to the family rather than actually able to damage the monarchy in any way. As it became apparent that Diana was not going to let go of the proverbial bone, it became blatantly obvious that the marriage was well beyond repair and even putting on a show of public unity was next to impossible so divorce was the only solution.
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