Diana's Relationships with The Queen and Other Members of the Royal Family

[TLLK]

I think it is possible they regarded Diana as more of a threat because Fergie was pretty stupid. She too was unpredictable but she was so foolish, in a hapless helpless way that she soon wore out public goodwill. The public got sick of her within a few years, and she was basically not able to muster much support in a row iwht the RF, Diana was smarter, she was more charismatic, and she had the papers on her side fofr a long time, and so she may have scared the RF more...

Also any concerns that they might have that Diana was secretly discussing them with the press were valid.

 

[Curryong]

Sarah did some strange things alright, things that are quite incomprehensible, even nowadays. I seem to remember she took Beatrice and Eugenie with her to one or two of her public engagements. I think Beatrice was about three and Eugenie was at the crawling stage. They caused a bit of havoc, AFAIR. I suppose she was advised not to do it again. Why she would think that would be OK anyway, I can't imagine.

 

[TLLK]

I can't understand it either Curryong. Sarah always seemed to be lacking in common sense and unfortunately has not gained any over the years.

 

[Denville]

Also any concerns that they might have that Diana was secretly discussing them with the press were valid.

I dont think they really thought of that till the Morton book came along. They might have feared there were a few leaks -. However I think it was hard for them to believe that one of their people would talk at length to a journalist. I beleive that when it was coming out, though Philip told Diana that they had tapes of her discussing the publication of the book with the newspaper and publisher etc. Whether he was bluffing or not, Im not sure. IIRC she refused to sign a declaration that she had had nothing to do with the book - so perhaps she was afraid if she did so, her involvement was known and recorded and someone would publish it and make a liar of her..
But I think that yes her predilection for talking to the press and using her charms with them to knock Charles and the RF were teh things that really scared them. Sarah had no "party" really or influence with the papers, so after a time, everyone got tired of her and no-one cared about her any more so it was easy for the RF to sideline her...

 

[Osipi]

I can't bring myself to think that the RF was ever "scared" of Diana. To pin that on her is giving her a bit more power and chutzpah than she ever really had. I think they were quite appalled at some of her behavior and they wouldn't, at that point, put it past Diana to use the press to her own advantages. The family had already known of and witnessed quite a bit of Diana's "odd" behavior and wouldn't have been overly surprised at anything Diana did. I tend to believe that the predominant mood of the family would tend to be more embarrassed to have someone that acted like Diana did in the family.

Just my take on it anyways.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In her youth, Princess Margaret, like Princess Diana, had been the media star of the Royal Family. Did Margaret see in Diana reflection of her own self?

 

[Curryong]

In the early years I think Margaret was intrigued by some of Diana's more rebellious qualities, she was new, seemed to be a bit different. The two women were both quite witty and so got on very well. As I've said before, with the butler incident things began to sour, and the suspicions that Diana had cooperated with the Morton book drew the BRF, including Margaret, closer together. The Panorama interview finished it off!

I don't think Margaret ever saw Diana as a reflection of herself per se. She was always very conscious that she was a King's daughter and the Queen's sister.

I do think she saw some elements of the way the Press reacted towards Diana as echoes of how she had been treated. As a young woman she'd been lauded as a great beauty, praised for her fashion style, written about because of her frequenting nightclubs, something that had echoes of Edward VIII as a young Prince of Wales.

However, although Margaret did know some upperclass gossip columnists in London it would never have occurred to her in a million years to have chosen any as confidantes or to play games with the Press in the way Diana did.
She was always conscious of her rank, and in spite of various incidents in her own life that were the reverse of dignified, she would have considered that beneath her.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think it would have become apparent quite quickly that Diana had very little in common with most other members of the royal family. That's not necessarily an unsurmountable obstacle to family unity - not everyone has to be best friends - and I think for the first few years of the marriage the royals were willing to take Diana as she was, quirks and all, especially recognizing that she was still very young.

Even when things really went sour I doubt the royals were ever afraid of Diana being a threat to the institution of the monarchy, especially after the divorce. The British royal family has shown time and time again that when push comes to shove it can and will close ranks and come through various traumas unscathed. On a personal level, though, I imagine the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh worried over the self destructive aspects of Diana's character and the effect they could potentially have on their grandchildren. Especially since they would have been well aware that Charles wasn't a shining example of stability, either.

 

[Denville]

I think it would have become apparent quite quickly that Diana had very little in common with most other members of the royal family. That's not necessarily an unsurmountable obstacle to family unity -
a shining example of stability, either.

Oh I think they were scared. They didn't know what she'd do next, which is why there was a divorce. That was them closing ranks and excluding her from their family, and in essence sayng to her "if you want a good financial settlement, and some kind of position and recognition from us, you have to keep silent about the family/your marriage after the divorce.." and then afterwards while she was treated politely because of her position as the mother fo the Queen's heir, she was basically chilled out..

 

[Denville]

I However, although Margaret did know some upperclass gossip columnists in London it would never have occurred to her in a million years to have chosen any as confidantes or to play games with the Press in the way Diana did.
She was always conscious of her rank, and in spite of various incidents in her own life that were the reverse of dignified, she would have considered that beneath her.

Pretty much agree, with all of this. I think that Margaret may have been a little envious of Diana, because she was of a younger generation, she had more freedom, in some ways... even if it was a freedom ot walk out of the family which Margaret hadn't got the nerve to do. But she was loyal to the queen, and would never think of behaving as Diana had done, talking to the press and writers, and using her power against the RF...
In the end, while she did get a divorce, she had hanlded her unhappy marriage for many years in the traditional royal way of both of them having affairs.

 

[MARG]

. . . . . On a personal level, though, I imagine the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh worried over the self destructive aspects of Diana's character and the effect they could potentially have on their grandchildren. Especially since they would have been well aware that Charles wasn't a shining example of stability, either.

Well, Charles has been accused of many things over the years, but unstable was not one of them. on the other hand, Diana's instability played a large part in her marriage and it was well known within the media as it was with the BRF. That there were concerns that she would continue to be indiscreet was a given.

 

[Denville]

Sarah did some strange things alright, things that are quite incomprehensible, even nowadays. I seem to remember she took Beatrice and Eugenie with her to one or two of her public engagements. I think Beatrice was about three and Eugenie was at the crawling stage. They caused a bit of havoc, AFAIR. I suppose she was advised not to do it again. Why she would think that would be OK anyway, I can't imagine.

I know this is OT, but when was this? I used to watch sarah a fair bit, in the Diana days, and I don't remember it. Could she nto get a babysitter?
Did she think it looked cute, to have 2 babies with her?

 

[Curryong]

I think the second of your summations is correct. I expect Sarah had been under fire from the press, clothes sense, Duchess of Pork, waddling like a duck etc. I think out of sheer desperation she gave the nanny the day off and took her little ones with her in an effort to appear a 'fun young mum'. I think that was the end for some of the more virulent females of Fleet St. I can remember one of them being very acid about toddlers crawling about on a Royal engagement.

Sarah made a speech at one of them I vaguely remember. It may have been a children's charity, can't remember now. It would have been just like Sarah to have thought it appropriate and a good idea. It must have been when Eugenie was little more than a baby because I distinctly remember references to the crawling, and it can't have been Beatrice because BOTH little girls were present.

 

[Denville]

Poor old Sarha, she just is so silly!! and she got a lot of unkind press, unlike Diana, wich is why I think The RF were more nervous of Diana.
To try and get back to the subject of D and the RF, I think that you are right about Margaret in that she was so consciuos of herself a Princess that she would not really see Diana as any refelection of herself. She may have been more friendly with Diana than other royals but she was still "the kings daughter" and I'm sure Saw Diana as only an earl's daughter who had managed to marry a prince..
And whne the earls daughter got above herself and began to think that she could treat the RF and Queen casually, the friendship was completely over.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

On the return from the birth of Prince William when Diana arrived back at Kensington Palace, Princess Margaret had organized a welcome reception for the Princess of Wales.

 

[Denville]

Really? Well more than Anne would have done probably when she was asked about how it felt to be an aunt when Will was born, she snapped at pressmen and the Palace had to put out a story that she had been told earlier that the baby had been born, and it hadn't.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Perhaps she was copying Diana's playbook but in an inappropriate way. People loved seeing William and Harry, but Diana was enough of a professional not to take them on public engagements until they were older (except for things like the balcony appearance after Trooping the Colour).

I know this is OT, but when was this? I used to watch sarah a fair bit, in the Diana days, and I don't remember it. Could she nto get a babysitter?
Did she think it looked cute, to have 2 babies with her?

 

[Katrianna]

I have a question, how was Diana's relationship with the Queen and Prince Philip after the divorce? I know from reading and the photos that she and Charles appeared to have a pretty civil relationship after the divorce and by Charles distress in Paris after Diana's death, I truly believe he was shocked and grieving and it wasn't an act. I seem to remember Diana once stated after the divorce that she and Charles were very good friends and got along much better than when married.
I don't remember ever reading how Diana got along with the rest of the main Royal Family after divorcing.
OT Fergie was and is Fergie. She didn't know when to quit with the antics and I think she was trying to get some, she thought, positive attention. I'm sure she was bothered by always being compared to Diana and being in the shadow.
She simply didn't think about her actions and how they turned against her instead of complimenting her.

 

[Denville]

I hav
OT Fergie was and is Fergie. She didn't know when to quit with the antics and I think she was trying to get some, she thought, positive attention. I'm sure she was bothered by always being compared to Diana and being in the shadow.
She simply didn't think about her actions and how they turned against her instead of complimenting her.

I dont think that Di's relationship with Charles post divorce was that great, really. I think it was probalby an improvement on the last years of the marriage and Diana was savvy enough to realise that the public were getting a bit sick of the War and the whole saga and that she should look as if she was not still harbouring a spite against her husband. so I think she exaggerated a bit how well she was getting on with Charles. I dont think muh has been said about the post divorce relationship with the queen and PHilip, but I dont think it was good. I think they were both very fed up with her and had lost all affection or respect and just tolerate her for the grandchildren's sake. Which is why I think they were not much affected by her death and didn't feel she should be paid any special honours...
The only things I can think of were that Diana during the separation yeas was invited to Christmas wth the RF and she just came for Church and went back immediately to London. SO I feel that she was very uncomfortable with them adn probably knew she wasn't really welcome.
I am not sure what happened in the one Christmas after her divorce, I think that she spent it in London without her sons and then went to America for a break soon afterwards.
I think the rest of the RF felt much the same about her, that she had talked ot the Press, disrespected the queen, questioned Charles' fitness to be King and all in all, was not one of them any more. the only one I think who showed a little kindness was Princess Michael, who said that Diana must not think of curtsying to her, but P Margaret, had very much cut Diana out, and I think the others were indifferent or cool.
I think that Charles was genuinely upset. He had loved her once, and her sudden shocking death upset him, esp thinking that his sons would be so bereaved...But I think that only he and the boys (adn Fergie) were very grieved by her death...

 

[Denville]

Perhaps she was copying Diana's playbook but in an inappropriate way. People loved seeing William and Harry, but Diana was enough of a professional not to take them on public engagements until they were older (except for things like the balcony appearance after Trooping the Colour).

I'd say it was generally considered absolutely NOT DONE to take children to an engagement.. apart from an offical photocall or an occasional balcony appearance. That's what they have nannies for. I cant imagine what Sarah was doing.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, I think, following the divorce, Diana and Charles's relationship was cordial, just, mainly for the sake of their boys. They would occasionally ring each other and Charles would occasionally drop in at KP.

They were seen together at the Eton Christmas Carol service in December 1996. Then in the next Spring there was trouble over Tiggy Legge Bourke being part of the arrangements for William's Confirmation into the Anglican Church, and Diana insisted that she not be invited to the ceremony. She herself came alone, though she'd been told she could invite up to thirty guests. So there was tension because of that. More trouble later at a May picnic at Eton.

As for her ex in-laws, I think she kept her distance and they did the same. The distancing had started with the Morton book and continued apace after that. I don't think there was much communication at all. She may have been invited as a matter of form, to Christmas festivities but it would have been awkward all round and Diana recognised this, I think. After all, would most families want their son and brother's newly divorced ex enjoying Christmas with them?

I don't like to think of the last year of Diana's life very much. She was incommunicado with her sisters for much of the time, Charles Spencer was in South Africa, she had had a spat with her mother who remained ensconced for much of the time in her cottage in a remote part of Scotland, and she also broke off relations with Sarah Duchess of York after Fergie wrote the bit about contracting warts from Diana's shoes in her autobiography in November 1996, and also answered personal questions about her from the US Press after Diana had asked her specifically not to.

All in all, quite a lonely time. Her relationship with Khan was also experiencing difficulties because she wanted to find him a job. The meeting with his parents hadn't turned out as she'd hoped. The romance finished in June 1997.

 

[Denville]

I dont think it was all that bad, Diana's life.. but I agree that seh was problaby lonely. She had cut herself off from the RF, by her behaviour. They werent going to like her after she'd divorced Charles in such a noisy way. and I think a lot of her own class may have disapproved as well. But she still had freinds.. and had new ones(albiet of a more celebrity type). ANd I dont know if she was not speaking to her sisters. her mother yes she had had a bad row with her and a bad one with Fergie. But I dont know of any estrangement from her sisters, she had appointed Sarah S at the time of the divorce to hlep look after the boys if she died,in her Will. Her affair with Khan didnt' finish till not long before her death, but it was alwasy stormy. But I think that a certain amount of loneliness was the price she must have realised she woudl have to pay for leaving her marriage.. and the RF behind. I think she hoped to find a new man, but began to realise that it wasn't that easy, that she had so much baggage..
I think she was soemone who was rather dependent on other people, for company because she wasn't easy on her own. She had cut back on her work, was not a serious reader, didn't have anything to occupy her if she didn't have friends or a man around....
I agree that I dont think she was THAT friendly with Charles. I think she still resented his affair with Camilla, and was friendly mostly to show the public that she wasn't bearing a grudge and for the children's sake..

 

[Denville]

The only thing that was unique during Charles and Diana's sitution was the modern age press that made everything seem like it was the worst thing ever. Diana didn't do anything to threaten the monarchy.

Her relationship with the family was cool, but pretty much typical of a in-law relationship. We like each other today, but tomorrow can be another story.

She did, she talked about her marriage, she talked about the RF, she criticised the future King and gave her opinion that he didn't really want the "top job" and would not be that good in it. She did a secret interview, which was broadcast on TV.. without the queen's permission. That horrified her own staff who were trying to keep up a relationship with the RF and the queen..
That's about as bad as you can get, from a senior member of the family. She angered the queen during the divorce negotiations by putting out her own statement about her title before it had been agreed with the queen, and the queen was forced to put out a counter statement.
It was indeed not untypical of an "in laws" relationship, In that the young wife is never quite accepted by her husbands family.. and if there's a divorce, she's going to be disliked by the husband's family and seen as an interloper who caused problems. Only in this case the in law rows had constitutional implications.
Its not the same as many in law situations where a family never like the new bride.. at first the RF were quite prepared to accept Diana, liked her and were pleased she was in the family. but when they got her in, she never quite fit and was on uneasy tems with many of them from very early on.
I think one aspect of the situation that hasn't maybe been touched on is that the queen TRIED to overlook Di's faults for the sake of her good points. That she saw how popular and magnetic Diana was, and tried to be there to support her, even when she was getting uneasy and others in the RF were getting more critical. She seems to have been willing to listen to Diana, crying and complaining, even if she couldn't offer any constructive help
and I think she felt that she had to do this and keep Diana as calm as possible, because she was such an asset to the RF. But eventually I think she ran out of patience, and that's why she grew quite cool to her daughter in law, because she felt she had done her best, had put up with a lot and Diana still was not "settling" in the family....and had grown more alienated from them as time went on

 

[Katrianna]

I think this is an excellent description of Her Majesty and Diana's relationship. The Queen was patient, tolerant and listened to Diana for years. To have Diana then talk to the press about the Royal Family in negative terms and then openly question Charles's ability to be King had to have been like a slap in the face/betrayal to HM. As written, the Queen lost patience and her relationship cooled towards Diana. As much as Diana was popular with the press and public, it had to have been a nightmare putting up with her in private.

 

[Denville]

I think this is an excellent description of Her Majesty and Diana's relationship. The Queen was patient, tolerant and listened to Diana for years. To have Diana then talk to the press about the Royal Family in negative terms and then openly question Charles's ability to be King had to have been like a slap in the face/betrayal to HM. As written, the Queen lost patience and her relationship cooled towards Diana. As much as Diana was popular with the press and public, it had to have been a nightmare putting up with her in private.

I always mull over this and end up not sure who to sympathise with. I think that perhaps the RF weren't as sympathetic as they might have been to Diana in the early years of her royal life.. and while the queen did listen to her, i suspect that Diana knew that while she was patient adn tolerant, there wasn't realy full sympathy because the queen didn't understand her.
I agree that Diana was in the wrong to talk to the press etc, and to hint that Charles should not be king..but perhaps some genuine sympathy earlier rather than a patient tolerance woudl have won Di's loyalty.
But that's why I think that when Diana died, the queen was thoroughly fed up with her and didn't feel any great sorrow. She probalbly felt that Diana had just been too much in the wrong by her standards, and that while i hope she felt something, it was a long way from real grief.

 

[Osipi]

I truly believe that when Diana died so unexpectedly, first and foremost logically in the Queen's mind and heart had to be for the two sons that had just lost their mother and were staying with her in her home. When something unexpected and tragic such as the accident in Paris happened, those that remain behind that loved the departed dearly are the ones most in need of comfort and solace.

It doesn't matter what the Queen thought of Diana at that time and we'll never know what the Queen thought of Diana at the time. Her thoughts are her own and private and not for public consumption and speculation.

That's my opinion anyways.

 

[Mermaid1962]

People who are very young now might learn of the Queen's feelings about Diana after HM dies and historians are able to read her private papers and write about them. I don't really expect any real "revelations" in my lifetime, unless they come when I'm elderly.

 

[Osipi]

To be absolutely honest, I hope those private thoughts are never released to the public. It just seems like such an invasion of a person's innermost being which should never be on public display for all to see.

Question? What good would it do to "know" exactly what HM thought of Diana throughout her association with her? Would it ever really change anything? Good gravy its been almost 20 years since Diana died and I would hope a lot of the feelings that were felt back then were buried with her. Life is about moving on and going forward.

 

[AdmirerUS]

People who are very young now might learn of the Queen's feelings about Diana after HM dies and historians are able to read her private papers and write about them. I don't really expect any real "revelations" in my lifetime, unless they come when I'm elderly.

JMO - but I don't think there will be access until after Charles. He has nothing to gain by letting anyone bring up Di as he ascends the throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Usually the diaries etc aren't released for 20+ years after the death of the person involved and with monarchs they can stipulate what will happen to their private papers meaning that The Queen could say in her diaries that they are to be destroyed, or not released for 50 years or something like that.