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  #1801  
Old 05-15-2016, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that Di was a bit disingenuous at times... either that or she really could be very foolish. She would do things and say "but I never intended such and such to happen" from that..Like the Bashir interview. Did she realy not think that that would infuriate the queen?
The keyword is "think". Although, to Diana, at the time the course of actions that she took seemed to be a good idea at the time, when in battle, one is more apt to strike out rashly and without clearly weighing the implications it might have on other people, the future, or even her own self.

People do odd things when they're hurting.
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  #1802  
Old 05-15-2016, 03:50 AM
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I think that it was her rather self regarding nature.. I mean she coudl be very selfish.. but also I think she always tended to live in a little bubble and only see what she wanted to see. So she lashed out because she was hurt and angry with the RF and her husband, and didn't really see perhaps that attacking her in laws was one thing but in attacking the RF, she was (a) going to make them very angry and they would retaliate..and (b) that by damaging the RF's reputation she might well cause the end of the monarchy which was of course the future of her sons. As many have said, she thought in the short term and didn't see the long term consequneces of her behaviour.
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  #1803  
Old 05-15-2016, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that Di was a bit disingenuous at times... either that or she really could be very foolish. She would do things and say "but I never intended such and such to happen" from that..Like the Bashir interview. Did she realy not think that that would infuriate the queen?
I think any family that had their dirty laundry aired in public would be the same. Whether it's being embarrassed in front of the country, social set, neighbours, friends or even family, nobody likes it and Diana may as well have pulled the pin and yelled grenade.

As to her long-term ideas, she wanted the boys to go to Public Schools and she achieved her aim which was admirable, but she forgot that once they were in public school they were beyond her or the Palaces' ability to protect them from scandal and kids that would taunt them.

William had only been at Eton for a few months or so before she heaped humiliation on him via the Panorama Interview. She obviously thought that William should know before it aired so she arranged to visit and tell him, to rub salt in the wound she was even photographed telling him in the garden, yet she totally failed to understand the effect she was going to on his and Harry's lives.

The immediate humiliation, the long-term embarrassment because boys will be boys, especially at boarding school. HM calling time on the 'Separation' and pushing for divorce proceedings, and the increase of paparazzi once the divorce was announced. I truly believe none of these possible consequences occurred to Diana.
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  #1804  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:00 AM
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Well I dont quite see that it was her idea that the boys shoul go to boarding school.. most royals had done so in the previous generation so why not Will and Harry? I think she got her way about what school they went to, she favoured Eton and Charles having not enjoyed Gordonstoun was willing to back her on that. But yes any family would be angry to find that their problems had been splashed all over the papers and a book had been written to publicise their troubles. Even if they disapproved of C's affair, they weren't going to like di's putting it out there publicly, NOT mentioning her own lovers and into the bargaining hinting that she hoped charles woudld not become king.
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  #1805  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that Di was a bit disingenuous at times... either that or she really could be very foolish. She would do things and say "but I never intended such and such to happen" from that..Like the Bashir interview. Did she realy not think that that would infuriate the queen?
I would add the words hubristic and fickle. I don't think that she wanted to destroy the monarchy per se, but at intermittent times she wanted Charles to go away with his lady and let William be heir and eventually King. I think that she thought that she would be the power behind the throne and she would reshape the monarchy and this would all be accepted because of her popularity. I think that she also harbored resentment against the Queen and other royals and was fine with at a minimum throwing them under the bus if not turning the public against them.

The fickle part is that I don't think that Diana had these feelings all day/every day, but I think that she had them long enough that she would do things like set up the Panorama interview and carry it out behind the backs of her top staffers because she did not want to be talked out of doing these things or thwarted.

I also think that there was a part of her that recognized that she and Charles were a good team, and perhaps even harbored romantic feelings for him, and at times hoped for some kind reconciliation/rekindled romantic relationship.
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  #1806  
Old 05-15-2016, 10:16 AM
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Apparently Princess Diana didn't always think before she did or said something. A lot of what she said especially at the Panoroma interview was done out of anger or trying to get at Prince Charles and other royal family members. Anyone who watched that interview on TV knew that the royal family would be angered by things that were said. The old saying that you can't take back what you said is certainly true in this case. If she had really thought about the entire picture which she didn't (especially how it would impact her children), she might have done things differently

I imagine when Prince Charles was interviewed after the Panoroma Interview, he could have done the same thing to her or aired her dirty laundry further or told other tales about her, but he didn't do this. He took the high road on this issue.
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  #1807  
Old 05-15-2016, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that it was her rather self regarding nature.. I mean she coudl be very selfish.. but also I think she always tended to live in a little bubble and only see what she wanted to see. So she lashed out because she was hurt and angry with the RF and her husband, and didn't really see perhaps that attacking her in laws was one thing but in attacking the RF, she was (a) going to make them very angry and they would retaliate..and (b) that by damaging the RF's reputation she might well cause the end of the monarchy which was of course the future of her sons. As many have said, she thought in the short term and didn't see the long term consequneces of her behaviour.
And I think that's a side of her that has been given more attention now that she's been dead for some time. That's why it's difficult to really blame one side or the other for the breakdown of the marriage. Charles was absolutely selfish and ridiculous in some instances; however, I think Diana's neediness and desire to always be the center of attention also didn't help matters.

I guess you'd have to understand the BRF better than I do to understand one thing though. Some have said that she didn't expect a divorce after that interview. I mean seriously? I totally agree that she was hurt and she didn't think things through, but the one thing she knew about the RF was that they do not tolerate people that blab to the public. How on Earth could she have expected to remain part of the family after that?

That being said, I think her legacy will always be that of a victim in the whole scenario and in many she was. It's a narrative that I think she successfully portrayed to the public and she had enough goodwill with them that they sympathized with her. So many lasting episodes from that horrible situation.
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  #1808  
Old 05-15-2016, 03:53 PM
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Its hard to say HistoryG.. I think she was often rather stupid. and just didn't seem able to work things out... or perhaps there was a chance that since The Queen had tried to keep them as a married couple in spite of everything that she would still just ignore Di's firing yet another shot in the war...
I DO think, without disliking Di, that honestly the marital failure was more her fault than his.. In the sense that I think he DID try to make it work, he DID intend to be faithful, but poor Di wasn't very stable, and was driven to breaking point by the massive media attention, a lack of sympathy in some ways from the RF as a whole, and Charles not understanding her very well.. Plus her bulimia making her moody and volatile.
I think that the RF did n't NOT sympathise in a general way - and did give her help but their attitude was that she had joined the army and she had to learn how to wear the boots.. Charles was a bit the same and felt increasingly irritated/ worn out by her moods, ad soon thought longingly of the uncomplicated cheerful Cam....
I agree that she DID manage to make a lot of people though see her as a completely helpless cruelly treated victim, who wasn't responsible for anything that had happened during the marriage and that the RF had been completely heartless towards her and that Chas and Cam had been brutally cruel...and many people will never get over that impression...
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  #1809  
Old 05-15-2016, 04:00 PM
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Q Claude I think that she did have moods, yes. She was angry with C and his family, and she did hit out at them.. but at times I think she realised perhaps that she wasn't entirely in the right of it and pulled back a bit.. or did hope, that maybe she and Chrles COULD still make things work and in some of these moods she was willing to try again, or have at least a partnership with Chas where they worked togheter for the good of the monarchy and tired to be friendly.. but when she had outed their extra marital affiars and quarrels, that was not possible. If she had kept quiet, she would have possibly managed a friendly relationship with him, done some work together and been parents to the children.. and the RF would have kept her within the fold.. but they could not do it once the public KNEW (as opposed ot suspecting) that both of them were having affairs and didn't have a normal marital relationship... so yes.. SHe didn't think that once you've said something in public, like the Morton book or the Interview, you can't really take it back and say "oh no, neither of us is having an affair" and expect the public to believe this
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  #1810  
Old 05-16-2016, 01:42 AM
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In my opinion, just not the smartest way to go about things. That just opens up the floodgates and then the information about her affairs was up for tabloid fodder as well.
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  #1811  
Old 05-16-2016, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I do agree with a lot of what you have said (question that the boys really will honour their father in any way - but that is just me - they don't seem to ever really mention him, unless they are doing a specific interview about him it is always their mother and not their father who is mentioned as influencing them. They never voluntarily mention him.)
Just thought I'd mention that I have read Harry mention both parents recently (or was it William?). Anyway, whichever it was, the speaker seemed quite natural, referencing first his father, then his mother. Can't recall where I read it but it was recent.

You may be right, Iluvbertie, in how you see it, but I have never seen the omission (if it is as you say) as a deliberate snub. Rather, the omitted parent is very much alive (so why gild the lily?) and the one mentioned is deceased, so it makes sense.
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  #1812  
Old 05-16-2016, 05:31 PM
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I cant remember off hand but I'm sure that they boht mention their father quite often.. obviously yes he's alive so they aren't going to speak of him in the same way. I'm sure that Harry talked of his father calling him when he got back form service abroad..
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  #1813  
Old 05-16-2016, 09:33 PM
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I'd have to look for it, but I've definitely read an interview where Harry praised his father's intelligence and how calls him up to ask for his advice because he knows more than anyone what to always do. Also courtiers have mentioned that though Harry is often compared to his mother by the press, he is actually a lot like his father.
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  #1814  
Old 05-16-2016, 10:46 PM
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They have both made positive comments when interviewed directly about their father but when talking casually it is always their mother and never their father who they mention. Unless directed to talk about Charles they don't do so. They talk about the Queen more easily than their father.
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  #1815  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:44 PM
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I think newspaper editors feel the Diana effect is still important and many of the times the brothers mention Diana is in answer to questions from journalists. That doesn't mean they don't think of her every day, I'm sure they do, it's just that a lot of the time when they speak of their mother it's inexorably tied to charities that Diana associated with Diana, and about how and why they are continuing her work.

Most of the time when the Princes speak of their father (and of course there are exceptions) it's to do with conservation of land and animals about which both William and Charles are particularly identified.
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  #1816  
Old 05-17-2016, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
They have both made positive comments when interviewed directly about their father but when talking casually it is always their mother and never their father who they mention. Unless directed to talk about Charles they don't do so. They talk about the Queen more easily than their father.
But if they are being interviewed how is that talking casually about their mother any more than when they are asked about their father?
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  #1817  
Old 05-17-2016, 04:34 AM
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I think we should not assume that everything they say to reporters is published...
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  #1818  
Old 05-17-2016, 04:51 AM
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Papa is around, day in, day out. No news. Iconic mama is gone, so logically the questions are again and again about the person no longer amongst them. It is only logical. One realises one is missing when the one indeed is no more...
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  #1819  
Old 05-17-2016, 10:31 AM
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A lot of the recent interviews with Harry where with American press such as People and the various morning tv shows. Who is the target audience for People and GMA etc - it's women. American women are more interested in Diana than they ever were in Charles.


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  #1820  
Old 05-17-2016, 01:14 PM
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I think William and Harry have talked about both their parents, but it is clear that they wish to keep their mother's memory alive and often speak about her, for instance in connection with a particular charity or referencing her such as "our mother would have be proud of this" or "my mother used to say that" etc etc.

I don't think there is much value in trying to analyse what is or might be behind it - especially as it seems only natural for one to comment of a deceased parent in a different way or under different circumstances that one might do so with a parent who is still alive.
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