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  #1541  
Old 05-24-2015, 08:01 PM
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Diana touching her friend's hand did not have world wide repercussions.

Most of the world did not even know Diana existed.

In 1987, the most populous nations were China and India. Billions of people in the world did not have access to clean drinking water. They could hardly be wasting their time and energy buying western celebrity magazines.

I never saw the image or heard of Diana touching a person with AIDS until long after she had been dead.

I hardly think most people in China, India and most of Asia, Africa, South America and Central America ever heard or cared about Diana.

When Diana's supporters say world wide it must mean their own small circle of acquaintances and not the real world of several billions of people.
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  #1542  
Old 05-24-2015, 08:06 PM
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It was very big news in most Western Countries when Diana touched/hugged and worked with those people who had AIDS. I remember it being talked about on the news and in magazines of the day here in the U.S.

Just because you somehow were cut off from the rest of events doesn't mean it didn't happen and people didn't know about it. I live in small town USA and heard about it.


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  #1543  
Old 05-24-2015, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
It's interesting that whenever anbrida states something see post #1500), it is not just an opinion. But if anyone says anything to the contrary--even people who actually knew Diana--it's only an opinion.


We all have our opinions. As was stated before, no one can deny that Diana did charitable work and got a lot of publicity for her causes. However, it's going to create controversy when someone states that Diana was a pure humanitarian--which, is by nature an opinion. Only Diana knew her true motives.


There is a lot of evidence that Diana's motives for charity work were mixed--including the fact that she resigned from 100 of her charities and made few charitable appearances during the last few years of her life. I believe that she did want to help others, but she also liked the publicity--a lot.

I am sorry that all you read just my "opinions" instead of all the facts, letters, quotes and articles I posted on this thread and other thread like the thread of "Diana's charity work" to support my opinions.

Someone say a person who actually knew Diana said her motivation for charity work was not pure, but I notice that the same person said some quite different words too. So you see, using opinion, no matter whose, to support claim is quite lame.

That is always my point, if one only state one's opinion without supporting evidences and facts, I wont take it very serious. Just like you state that Diana mix motives for charity work including her lurk for publicity. And you said she dropped her 100 charities was because she was lazy, and always refused another possible interpretation that it is because she wanted to be more focus and more involved in some particular causes. For all of these I don't see you have any evidence to support your claim.
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  #1544  
Old 05-24-2015, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Diana touching her friend's hand did not have world wide repercussions.

Most of the world did not even know Diana existed.

In 1987, the most populous nations were China and India. Billions of people in the world did not have access to clean drinking water. They could hardly be wasting their time and energy buying western celebrity magazines.

I never saw the image or heard of Diana touching a person with AIDS until long after she had been dead.

I hardly think most people in China, India and most of Asia, Africa, South America and Central America ever heard or cared about Diana.

When Diana's supporters say world wide it must mean their own small circle of acquaintances and not the real world of several billions of people.

Bias much? Like Diana or not, it had enormous impact:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ch...n-1329108.html in 1995: "Derek Bodell, director of the National Aids Trust, one of the charities the Princess will continue to work with, said they were thrilled: "We believe she has done more than almost anyone else to combat the stigma and misconceptions that still surround HIV and Aids.""

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-02-...1_aids-patient
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  #1545  
Old 05-24-2015, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
Bias much? Like Diana or not, it had enormous impact:

Charities devastated after Diana quits as patron - News - The Independent in 1995: "Derek Bodell, director of the National Aids Trust, one of the charities the Princess will continue to work with, said they were thrilled: "We believe she has done more than almost anyone else to combat the stigma and misconceptions that still surround HIV and Aids.""

7-Year-Old AIDS Patient Shares Hug With Princess - latimes

Thank you. She touched what would have been a pariah, at a time when only those with education, knew it could not be spread by social contact. It was enormously important. I think, that those in South America, China and Central America heard of her. I, personally, hate shaking hands, with numerous people. That being said, Diana's move was extremely important to those with AIDS. And they acknowledged it. And for the few times you can show me pictures of some of those lovely queens with gloves and I acknowledge that you did. Most of the time they do not wear them and they touch people and do not have press when they are touched like they are a holy icon. The queen is a lovely woman, but all this he touched her or put his hand on her shoulder is nonsense. Diana had a good instinct. He sons know better.
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  #1546  
Old 05-24-2015, 09:38 PM
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It's always interesting to read articles from the time Diana was alive. Here is the Vanity Fair piece from 2007: "Excerpted from The Diana Chronicles, by Tina Brown, to be published this month [July 2007] by Doubleday; © 2007 by the author."

EXCERPT - JULY 2007
Diana's Final Heartbreak
LINK: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/07/diana200707
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  #1547  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:08 PM
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Looked like a nice article but as I don't subscribe I can't read it.
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  #1548  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:10 PM
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I wonder if the gloves provide a bit of cushioning for their hands when they're shaking hands with dozens of people at engagements? For an elderly lady like QEII it might be very helpful if you're dealing with arthritic joints and thinning skin.
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  #1549  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
I am sorry that all you read just my "opinions" instead of all the facts, letters, quotes and articles I posted on this thread and other thread like the thread of "Diana's charity work" to support my opinions.

Someone say a person who actually knew Diana said her motivation for charity work was not pure, but I notice that the same person said some quite different words too. So you see, using opinion, no matter whose, to support claim is quite lame.

That is always my point, if one only state one's opinion without supporting evidences and facts, I wont take it very serious. Just like you state that Diana mix motives for charity work including her lurk for publicity. And you said she dropped her 100 charities was because she was lazy, and always refused another possible interpretation that it is because she wanted to be more focus and more involved in some particular causes. For all of these I don't see you have any evidence to support your claim.
I don't think I have ever said Diana was lazy. Regarding her resignation from over 100 charities after her divorce, Diana had stop doing work for those charities in 1993. When she announced her partial withdrawal from public life, she said that she wanted a more meaningful private life, including spending more time with William and Harry.

It is an undeniable fact that Diana drastically cut down her charity work in the last few years of her life. Some of the appearances she made had a huge media impact, but that doesn't mean that she was a "pure humanitarian." The media impact only proves that she was very good at getting publicity.
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  #1550  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:32 PM
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If HM didn't wear gloves, I expect that she would have caught many more colds and/or other viruses over the years. These days, there are antiseptic hand lotions and towels. Those didn't exist years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
But they should. IMO there is no virtue in shaking so many hands with one's own bare hands.
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  #1551  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
If HM didn't wear gloves, I expect that she would have caught many more colds and/or other viruses over the years. These days, there are antiseptic hand lotions and towels. Those didn't exist years ago.
I understand and agree but I don't think that is why the Queen wore gloves. I think it was the fashion in the 50s. I don't think Diana ever wore gloves during her royal engagements--perhaps with evening gowns.

Regardless, she intended to make a point when she shook hands with people who were infected with AIDS. It was memorable, particularly in the western world. She wasn't the only person who was helping AIDS victims but she was among the first.
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  #1552  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:22 AM
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How's that controversial memorial fountain/drain thing in London faring? Is it still there? Is it popular? Do people think of Diana when they go there?
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  #1553  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:28 AM
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Yes it is still there. Whether people who use it connect it to Diana I don't know - maybe they do and maybe they don't. I am sure that there are people who make the effort to see it just because of the connection to Diana while others may just see it or use it without realising it has something to do with her.
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  #1554  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:37 AM
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About gloves: Queen Elizabeth II is almost the only European royal offering a gloved hand for a handshake. The other British royal ladies then keep the gloves on, then take the gloves off. On the Continent etiquette says that always a bare hand is offered for a handshake. This is an ancient tradition going back centuries and means: "Look, I offer you my bare hand, I have no bad intentions, I come as a friend."

The late Queen Elizabeth with ungloved right hand

Queen Máxima with an ungloved right hand

Queen Mathilde and Queen Letizia with ungloved right hands

Crown Princess Mette-Marit with ungloved right hand

Crown Princess Mary with ungloved right hand

Grand Duchess Maria Teresa with an ungloved right hand

Empress Michiko and Queen Sonja with an ungloved right hand

Three royal sisters with an ungloved right hand

So all the hullabaloo about *grasp* a royal touching someone without gloves *shudder* was pretty weird in continental eyes. Offering a gloved hand was (and is) seen as a faux pas. Queen of England or no Queen of England. Her very own mother showed how it should be done.

Another picture of the late Queen Elizabeth with an ungloved right hand

And another one

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  #1555  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
How's that controversial memorial fountain/drain thing in London faring? Is it still there? Is it popular? Do people think of Diana when they go there?
What is it? Is there a picture we can see? Why controversial?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
About gloves: Queen Elizabeth II is almost the only European royal offering a gloved hand for a handshake. The other British royal ladies then keep the gloves on, then take the gloves off. On the Continent etiquette says that always a bare hand is offered for a handshake. This is an ancient tradition going back centuries and means: "Look, I offer you my bare hand, I have no bad intentions, I come as a friend."

[...]

So all the hullabaloo about *grasp* a royal touching someone without gloves *shudder* was pretty weird in continental eyes. Offering a gloved hand was (and is) seen as a faux pas. Queen of England or no Queen of England. Her very own mother showed how it should be done.
I, too, was raised with this sensibility when among a small, modest group. One would remove one's glove as it's considered rude to take someone's hand gloved. I was just thinking of one person glad-handing a large crowd. I see no virtue in doing so un-gloved.

There is also this: if someone (who has to do all the glad-handing) has a sensitivity, or a 'deformity' (perhaps a wart?) I could see wanting to use a glove as a courtesy. In any case, gloved or un-gloved, I never seek to shake a 'celebrity's' hand in a public place, unless they make the first move to do so. I've been taught it's an intrusion otherwise.

BTW I don't see much massive handshaking by royals (or celebrities). I'm trying to think when such happens. Is it a British thing? Do other royals do it?
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  #1556  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
It's always interesting to read articles from the time Diana was alive. Here is the Vanity Fair piece from 2007: "Excerpted from The Diana Chronicles, by Tina Brown, to be published this month [July 2007] by Doubleday; © 2007 by the author."

EXCERPT - JULY 2007
Diana's Final Heartbreak
LINK: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/07/diana200707
As much as I know, there are a lot of false facts in this article. The most critical one the following paragraph.

Quote:
Resolved to do that, Hasnat met Diana in an agreed-upon spot in Hyde Park at 10 o'clock one hot night in the second week of July. Knowing she was to be rejected, Diana reproached him with scalding words and tears. She could not really accept that it was over. But Khan was not a man who played games. In August the Khan family, returning to Lahore, gave Hasnat gifts for the beautiful princess who had visited them. He told them to mail them to her instead. He wouldn't be seeing Diana anymore. -- Diana the Chronicle by Tina Brown
That is completely wrong. It was Diana who took the initiative to break up with Hasnat Khan, not the vise versa. Here is the statement of Hasnat Khan to the inquest:
Quote:
When Diana went to St Tropez with Mr Al Fayed,everything was fine between us. I said goodbye to her the day she went as I had stayed with her the previous night at Kensington Palace. ...

When we did meet up in Battersea Park, she was not her normal self and she kept looking at her mobile phone. I told her that I thought she had met somebody else and it must be someone from Mohamed Al Fayed's contingent. I had no idea who it could be. As far as I knew, it could have been a bodyguard or anyone, but I just knew that she had changed since she had been away with Mr Al Fayed, so I guessed it must have been someone in his party. I knew that Mr Al Fayed had children, but at that stage I did not know of his eldest son, Dodi. I was surprised when she denied to me that there was anyone else. At the end of our meeting in Battersea Park we arranged to see each other again, the following day, at Kensington Palace. I can't remember the exact date, but we met in Battersea Park within a couple of days of her returning from Paris. It was at this second meeting that Diana told me that it was all over between us. She denied there was anyone else involved. I told her that I strongly suspected there was someone else and I remember saying to her at the time 'You are dead', meaning her reputation was dead. I said this because I was sure that it was someone from Mohamed Al Fayed's group and that was how I felt about anyone involved with him. I did not know him personally, but I had read in the press about his business involvements and Diana had given me a general impression of him in the past. It was only when I heard the news on the radio that I learned about Dodi. I think she wanted to be with someone who was happy to be seen with her in public and she could do that with Dodi.
Here is a timeline of other events happened around the time.

July 26 Diana and Dodi had dinner in Paris. Dodi brings Diana to tour Villa Windsor for around 40 minutes. Diana thinks it is more like a museum, and how can anyone possible live there.[1]

July 27 afternoon, Jerry White and Ken Rutherford, co-founder of LSN, were invited to KP to update Diana their recent activities and future plan. Diana asked them to plan her Bosnia trip in secret. Because she wants to meet the victims and their families herself [2,3].

July 27/28 night, Diana met Hasnat Khan in Battersea Park. Here is Paul Burrell’s account of the event:

“The Princess came home that night very distressed and said that she had had it, she had tried everything she could to bring this man out into the public spotlight and he was having none of it. He did not want to become a public name, he didn’t want to become known, and they had reached a stalemate situation” [1].

July 30, Diana told Photographer Jason Fraser her impending cruise on the Jonikal.[4]

Aug 4, the “kiss” photo was taken by Mario Brenna (Fraser’s work partner) [4].

References:
[1] “Hearing of Inquest into the Deaths of Diana and Dodi – Paul Burrell”, 14 Jan 2008 morning.
[2] Jerry White, “Travels with Diana: A Landmine Survivor’s Tale,” Christian Science Monitor. 3 Sep 1997.
[3] Jerry White, “Jerry White’s Survivor Corps Mission”, Ability Magazine, Vol 2009 Aug/Sept.
[4] “ ‘I was always nearby ready to photograph her and that suited us both’: Photographer Jason Fraser opens up on his special relationship with Princess Diana”, Daily Mail, 20 Dec 2013.

The problem with Tina Brown's book is, it barely has any direct quote from anybody, a.k.a., no reference at all. Take this story for example, without any quotes from Diana and Hasnat Khan nor anybody else, the writer just imagined a story and wrote it down as a matter of fact. And then based on this imaginary story, the author came up with more new imaginary stories and reached to an conclusion that Diana was heartbroken and became emotionally unstable again. And use this to explain everything happened in that summer.
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  #1557  
Old 05-25-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
What is it? Is there a picture we can see? Why controversial?




I, too, was raised with this sensibility when among a small, modest group. One would remove one's glove as it's considered rude to take someone's hand gloved. I was just thinking of one person glad-handing a large crowd. I see no virtue in doing so un-gloved.

There is also this: if someone (who has to do all the glad-handing) has a sensitivity, or a 'deformity' (perhaps a wart?) I could see wanting to use a glove as a courtesy. In any case, gloved or un-gloved, I never seek to shake a 'celebrity's' hand in a public place, unless they make the first move to do so. I've been taught it's an intrusion otherwise.

BTW I don't see much massive handshaking by royals (or celebrities). I'm trying to think when such happens. Is it a British thing? Do other royals do it?

From what I have noticed, QE2 only shakes hands gloved when out and about. When doing investitures, she does not wear gloves. I am not crazy about shaking hands either. They have a cold, they scratch their nose, you shake hands, you scratch your nose, tag, your it.
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  #1558  
Old 05-25-2015, 05:25 PM
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It was once described as looking like 'a drainage ditch'? I think it's fine, but for a time it was a great disappointment to those looking for a more 'appropriate memorial'--read 'statue'--in memory of Diana. There have been problems with the memorial itself since. Here's a Guardian article.Architecture: Princess Diana Memorial Fountain | Art and design | The Guardian


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What is it? Is there a picture we can see? Why controversial?
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  #1559  
Old 05-25-2015, 06:02 PM
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http://i59.tinypic.com/2nkovg8.jpg

Here it is
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  #1560  
Old 05-25-2015, 06:09 PM
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It looks beautiful to me, I remember hearing there were problems back in the 90s but I've heard nothing since then.
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