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  #1481  
Old 03-29-2015, 04:35 AM
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Lady Nimue, you have described how I feel about the idolatry and mystique around Marilyn Monroe. Others see a vulnerable, eternal sex goddess destroyed by men who used her... I see a vulgar mentally unbalanced floozy who had no qualms about indiscriminate adultery with other women's husbands. And her silly babykins whisper is just incredibly annoying to me when I hear it.

It sounds awful of me, but she leaves me as cold as a popsicle. I guess you had to be there.
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  #1482  
Old 03-29-2015, 11:35 PM
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I can see that in retrospect, not so much during the early 80s, but later on--when her marriage was falling apart and she became more brazen in her behaviour around Prince Charles. There was a real change in her speeches as well in later years. Initially, they were about the organizations she was addressing; later, she used her speeches to score points and draw attention to her own problems.

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It was not flattering. Just leave it that what I saw was a smirky smugness that I have never been able to un-see.
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  #1483  
Old 03-29-2015, 11:51 PM
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Yes, I definitely agree with that. Most of her post divorce speeches made me cringe...and they still do when I listen to them.
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  #1484  
Old 05-06-2015, 08:04 AM
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Is there an origin for this speculation: I have now read in two different sources that William promised his Mom that he would restore her HRH when he came king.

I have no memory of this from the past. Does anyone know if this has an origin - or it something that has just been invented and is being repeated in accounts today?

It is the kind a promise a little boy would make his emotional mom, I guess. But I don't suggest this be at the top of his bucket list as king. It may be personally satisfying but not best for the future of the monarchy. And I say that only because looking back and fixing things long past rarely works out as intended. JMO
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  #1485  
Old 05-06-2015, 08:38 AM
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Restoring it to his mother, when he became King, and she was alive might have had some merit but to give it to a woman who will, in all likelihood have been gone for close to half a century by the time he becomes King is not likely. He would have to overturn the LPs of his grandmother - which removed the HRH from both Diana and Sarah.
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  #1486  
Old 05-06-2015, 08:46 AM
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If William said anything of the sort, it would have been a very private conversation between him and his mother and I cannot imagine either one would have mentioned it to anyone else. As such, I would say it was just a rumour and it really isn't worth spending the next 20 or 30 years wondering if it will come true.
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  #1487  
Old 05-06-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
[...] He would have to overturn the LPs of his grandmother - which removed the HRH from both Diana and Sarah.
There is no such Letters Patent removing the HRH from both Diana and Sarah. Note that HRH is not a title but a form of address, like His Grace for a Duke, His Eminence for a Cardinal, His Excellency for an Ambassador.

A divorced lady once married to a titled gentleman continues to use her previous title, preceded by her christian name, but does so as if the title were a name:

Diana, Princess of Wales
Sarah, Duchess of York

Because the title is regarded merely as a name, the status corresponding to the title is lost, as is the style of that: no longer Her Royal Highness, no longer Her Grace, etc. The spouse's style of address came with marriage and it went when that marriage ended. Diana and Sarah 'simply' followed the practice which has grown in society. No LP of the Queen was needed.
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  #1488  
Old 05-06-2015, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There is no such Letters Patent removing the HRH from both Diana and Sarah.
Not true.

LPs issued August 1996 declared that former wives of male HRH holders are not entitled to the HRH style/title/attribute (except for widows before or until they remarry). The removal did not specifically target Diana and Sarah, but their divorces were almost certainly the motivation behind the LPs.
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  #1489  
Old 05-06-2015, 10:32 AM
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I hope Diana's HRH isn't revived... when she divorced she conciously revoked both the privileges and the responsiblities that came with that status.
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  #1490  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:19 AM
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I hope Diana's HRH isn't revived... when she divorced she conciously revoked both the privileges and the responsiblities that came with that status.
I don't think that is a realistic possibility.
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  #1491  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:31 AM
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HRH Princess Charlotte Elizabeth Diana of Cambridge. In a way has given back the HRH.
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  #1492  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:37 PM
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My mischievous streak is thinking that with the name Charlotte being a tribute to Prince Charles, Charles and Diana are together again.
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  #1493  
Old 05-07-2015, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There is no such Letters Patent removing the HRH from both Diana and Sarah. Note that HRH is not a title but a form of address, like His Grace for a Duke, His Eminence for a Cardinal, His Excellency for an Ambassador.

A divorced lady once married to a titled gentleman continues to use her previous title, preceded by her christian name, but does so as if the title were a name:

Diana, Princess of Wales
Sarah, Duchess of York

Because the title is regarded merely as a name, the status corresponding to the title is lost, as is the style of that: no longer Her Royal Highness, no longer Her Grace, etc. The spouse's style of address came with marriage and it went when that marriage ended. Diana and Sarah 'simply' followed the practice which has grown in society. No LP of the Queen was needed.
Not true. The specific LPs were dated to 21st August 1996 Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain: Documents

Elizabeth the Second by the grace of God and of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of our other realms and territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith to all to whom these presents shall come greeting .....Now Know Ye that We of our especial Grace certain knowledge and mere motion do hereby declare our royal will and pleasure that a former wife (other than a widow until she shall remarry) of a son of a Sovereign of the Realms of a son of a son of a Sovereign and of the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall not be entitled to hold and enjoy the style title or attribute of Royal Highness in Witness whereof we have caused these our Letters to be made Patent witness Ourself at Westminster the 21st day of August in the 45th year of our reign.
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  #1494  
Old 05-07-2015, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I can see that in retrospect, not so much during the early 80s, but later on--when her marriage was falling apart and she became more brazen in her behaviour around Prince Charles. There was a real change in her speeches as well in later years. Initially, they were about the organizations she was addressing; later, she used her speeches to score points and draw attention to her own problems.
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
. . . . . Yes, I definitely agree with that. Most of her post divorce speeches made me cringe...and they still do when I listen to them.
In the last few years of her life the media were starting to swing and questioning the very illusion that they were largely responsible for creating. Diana's former lovers were selling their stories for cold hard cash and in telling, destroyed forever the myth of the victimised waif. Suddenly she was the other woman and that resonated with people who had really felt for a "young woman betrayed".

Where was her legendary kindness, sympathy, empathy? And the reality started to bite. By the time she staged her second great "poor lonely deserted me" photo, (the first being the Taj Mahal), people were not fooled. She was sitting on a the end of a diving board all alone on a luxury yacht that she was "holidaying" with her latest lover. It didn't quite carry the same emotion of the first.

When she died in such a shockingly pedestrian way, a car crash, there was an outpouring of grief. Then came the accusations against the paparazzi and suddenly the media was in the gun. Their response was one of the greatest propaganda campaigns in history, and the woman they had begun vilifying for her sordid lifestyle was suddenly elevated to sainthood.

It is only now that people are starting to figure out the fact from the fiction. That there were no pathetic victims any more than there were dastardly villians, just real people who had the misfortune to live their lives in front of the camera.
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  #1495  
Old 05-07-2015, 05:52 PM
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Diana's main legacy will always be her sons, and through them her grandchildren and future descendants. That's not lessened because she's dead. Following on William giving his daughter his mother's name, only yesterday, in Sydney a woman who had obviously met Diana when she and Charles were touring here, brought pictures of that event for Harry. He was photographed leaning forward looking at them.

She probably didn't even think that in showing Harry those photos she might have been causing him pain. Nevertheless, she felt it was important to meet Diana's son and share with him her memories of his mother. As that Royal tour was decades ago now, (I can remember waiting to see Diana myself on a very cold evening in Melbourne) I think that sends a pretty powerful message about Diana's continuing influence on those who remember her.
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  #1496  
Old 05-07-2015, 05:56 PM
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A wonderful chance meeting for the woman and Harry so he could see photos from decades ago!

Curryong-Do you remember the year when you saw Diana in Melbourne?
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  #1497  
Old 05-07-2015, 06:15 PM
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Yes, it was on the 1983 tour. Charles and Diana went to a concert at the Melbourne Concert Hall. She was 21 and wore a lovely pale pink silk dress on that occasion, though I have to say that some of her other clothes on the tour were hideous. Some of the fashions of the day, ugh! Diana was tall and slender though, so she could carry most of it off. I also saw both of them in Hobart.
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  #1498  
Old 05-07-2015, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana's main legacy will always be her sons, and through them her grandchildren and future descendants. That's not lessened because she's dead. Following on William giving his daughter his mother's name, only yesterday, in Sydney a woman who had obviously met Diana when she and Charles were touring here, brought pictures of that event for Harry. He was photographed leaning forward looking at them.

She probably didn't even think that in showing Harry those photos she might have been causing him pain. Nevertheless, she felt it was important to meet Diana's son and share with him her memories of his mother. As that Royal tour was decades ago now, (I can remember waiting to see Diana myself on a very cold evening in Melbourne) I think that sends a pretty powerful message about Diana's continuing influence on those who remember her.
I'm not sure seeing the pictures was painful for Harry. I think and and William fully appreciate people holding on to the experience and memory of meeting their mother.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
In the last few years of her life the media were starting to swing and questioning the very illusion that they were largely responsible for creating. Diana's former lovers were selling their stories for cold hard cash and in telling, destroyed forever the myth of the victimised waif. Suddenly she was the other woman and that resonated with people who had really felt for a "young woman betrayed".

Where was her legendary kindness, sympathy, empathy? And the reality started to bite. By the time she staged her second great "poor lonely deserted me" photo, (the first being the Taj Mahal), people were not fooled. She was sitting on a the end of a diving board all alone on a luxury yacht that she was "holidaying" with her latest lover. It didn't quite carry the same emotion of the first.

When she died in such a shockingly pedestrian way, a car crash, there was an outpouring of grief. Then came the accusations against the paparazzi and suddenly the media was in the gun. Their response was one of the greatest propaganda campaigns in history, and the woman they had begun vilifying for her sordid lifestyle was suddenly elevated to sainthood.

It is only now that people are starting to figure out the fact from the fiction. That there were no pathetic victims any more than there were dastardly villians, just real people who had the misfortune to live their lives in front of the camera.
It's very true, Diana was never a saint. She had her flaws like all human beings and she made her share of mistakes.

However, none of that takes away from the good job she did as a mother, Princess of Wales/future Queen and after her marriage. She supported Charles as his wife, she birthed and loved their two sons, she worked and supported The Queen and "Firm" as a senior member of the royal family. She was an active patron/president of countless charitable organizations and she touched many peoples lives along the way. Her private life was far from perfect, but Diana did some good things while she was here, and I think the good things outweigh the bad things.

I totally understand people rejection of the media making Diana out to be some sort of saint in the aftermath of her tragic passing, but I really focus on the good things she did and how she used her royal status to help others in need.

We can go over her past mistakes over and over again, and have countless debates. What truly matters is how she made so many people happy with her warmth, smile and friendly hand.
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  #1499  
Old 05-07-2015, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, it was on the 1983 tour. Charles and Diana went to a concert at the Melbourne Concert Hall. She was 21 and wore a lovely pale pink silk dress on that occasion, though I have to say that some of her other clothes on the tour were hideous. Some of the fashions of the day, ugh! Diana was tall and slender though, so she could carry most of it off. I also saw both of them in Hobart.
I'll have to look for some of those photos online. Yes, some of her outfits were wonderful and others were well so over the top 80's.
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  #1500  
Old 05-23-2015, 05:23 AM
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I think Diana was a very pure humanitarian, a natural giver of herself, and she could sacrifice a lot (she did sacrifice a lot) for other people, especially the most vulnerable people in the society. When she went out to help these people, she didn't seem to want anything back. And I don't see why people will loathe her and call her a mean-spirit person on this board.

And this is not just my opinion, because I have a full range of evidences to back up my claim here.

About Diana's mental illness problem. No doubt she had suffered from depression and bulimia for a long time. And these had harmed her ability to make wise decisions sometimes. But I believe as she claimed herself, she had went out of them in the last two years. Especially after divorce, she became very focused and knew exactly what her future role should be. As much as I knew the pressure she was under in her last year due to her landmine campaign, she displayed incredible courage and strong determination to achieve her goal. That didn't sound like a mentally ill person to me.

Even one of her main detractors, Charles' spin doctor Mark Bolland, after he left Charles' payroll, commented "Diana had many remarkable qualities. The most important for the monarchy was her ability to connect with people and to champion important causes in a highly focused and disciplined way."

I also think she was a very complex person, which made herself not easy to be understood. People, even her close friend can misjudge her real intention behind some antic behaviors. But this complexity made her a fascinating figure to study. Even after 18 years, we can still uncovered some very interesting stories about her. As I see, her story had not came to an end at all. There will be more interesting things coming out.
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