Diana's Legacy: What is left or what will be left?

[Curryong]

With all due respect to you Osipi, and you know I do, it would be a rare person, especially a 19 year old, who would implicitly believe that a very long sexual relationship which had begun again after Camilla's children were born was truly over. Especially if she sensed that Charles's feelings as her fiancé weren't solely and completely focused on her. As they should have been, as any woman marrying a man she loves, expects.

The relationship with Camilla had continued on and on through Charles's romance with Anna Wallace and afterwards, (and the end of the Charles/Anna Wallace affair, which ended because she objected to his intentions to Camilla at a ball, wasn't exactly years before Charles started courting Diana.)

I do not believe, by the way, that Charles was sleeping with Camilla during his engagement to Diana. However, I do believe their affair continued until he had made up his mind to be serious about this young girl. And I also believe that while he felt it was his duty to marry Diana and he was attracted to her he was emotionally in thrall to Camilla and really always had been since their dating days in their twenties.

 

[Osipi]

You bring up points I had forgotten about. Perhaps there was a contingency to Charles and Camilla's relationship before marriage that is, IMO, kind of unique to the aristocracy and that is the concept of open marriage. Andrew Parker Bowles was not known for remaining faithful during his marriage and with that in mind, he probably didn't expect his wife to either. That's a whole different kettle of fish that could have added to the Charles and Camilla relationship.

Perhaps the latest of these conversations, as good as they are, could be moved to the Charles and Diana thread as we're getting away from discussing Diana's legacy.

 

[Tsaritsa]

Yes, and there were Charles's many faults too. Fixed in his ways, stubborn, quite needy, unwilling to see another's points of view, expecting that his young wife would immediately mould herself into his way of life, adopt his friends, etc. making no attempt himself to meet or get to know any of her pals. And unlike Diana with her inexperience, still emotionally bound to another woman....

Silly child, perhaps, to expect that, after he'd done her the honour of marrying her, elevating her status, and making her mother to his children, he'd do more than have a mild fondness for her?

 

[duchessrachel]

Okay, I will say that the 3 of them really make for a juicy soap-opera don't they. Given all the facts we none of us really know the ins and outs of what went on in their lives. I have read lots of books on them and still get confused to this day, so IMHO I will never know the whole truth of these 3 people. The only thing I do know for sure is that this was a mismatch made in hell for all of them, Yes Diana had her problems as we all can see and for me I see this young girl with no world experience marrying someone who is so far out of her depth at the time as young, inexperienced, and very immature for any man.?

I look forward to seeing this played out in "The Crown". I know there will be lots of fiction but it will be interesting.

 

[Pranter]

Silly child, perhaps, to expect that, after he'd done her the honour of marrying her, elevating her status, and making her mother to his children, he'd do more than have a mild fondness for her?

'Whatever fond means'?


LaRae

 

[Tsaritsa]

'Whatever fond means'?


LaRae

"Of course".

 

[Osipi]

'Whatever fond means'?

"Of course".

Good play on words there.

What it all boils down to is that there are so many intrinsicalities surrounding all the people involved in this royal soap opera that, from the outside looking in, we'll never be able to truly understand it, come to a precise conclusion on what was or how it all came to be or remotely begin to understand these people completely and totally.

It does make for interesting discussions though. ?

 

[Denville]

Silly child, perhaps, to expect that, after he'd done her the honour of marrying her, elevating her status, and making her mother to his children, he'd do more than have a mild fondness for her?

what does that mean? Are you sayng that Diana sould not have expected more than a mild fondness>?

 

[Tsaritsa]

Good play on words there.

What it all boils down to is that there are so many intrinsicalities surrounding all the people involved in this royal soap opera that, from the outside looking in, we'll never be able to truly understand it, come to a precise conclusion on what was or how it all came to be or remotely begin to understand these people completely and totally.

It does make for interesting discussions though. ?

Aww! A big Thank-you from me, Osipi.

I fully support that we don't know what it's like to be someone else and live their lives. However, we maybe able to get closer than we think because for Royals, as with the rest of us, there are finite possibilities to all situations. It makes calculated possibilities likely to be close to the truth. Precise conclusions are always likely to be controversial, though. It does, as you say, make for interesting discussions

 

[Tsaritsa]

what does that mean? Are you sayng that Diana sould not have expected more than a mild fondness>?

Tongue in cheek with a touch of irony? With hindsight, had her expectations of married bliss with Charles been lower, possibly she'd have coped better?

 

[Denville]

Tongue in cheek with a touch of irony? With hindsight, had her expectations of married bliss with Charles been lower, possibly she'd have coped better?

I think if she was expecting "bliss" she was doomed to disappointment. Married life is hard, and I think that Diana was extremely immature.. when she married Charles.. but I think the bigger problem was her mental fragility. She could not help that, and the marriage was not one that had much chance of success anyway, given their many differences. Its not a case of blaming people, she could not help her bulimia, or her immaturity.. Charles had his faults nad problems, but its hard to blame him for finding Diana hard to cope with. Diana was the victim of her parent's selfishness which left her traumatised as a kid.. and Charles was the victim of the expectation that he would marry a virginal upper class PRotestant……...

 

[Tsaritsa]

I think if she was expecting "bliss" she was doomed to disappointment. Married life is hard, and I think that Diana was extremely immature.. when she married Charles.. but I think the bigger problem was her mental fragility. She could not help that, and the marriage was not one that had much chance of success anyway, given their many differences. Its not a case of blaming people, she could not help her bulimia, or her immaturity.. Charles had his faults nad problems, but its hard to blame him for finding Diana hard to cope with. Diana was the victim of her parent's selfishness which left her traumatised as a kid.. and Charles was the victim of the expectation that he would marry a virginal upper class PRotestant……...

I absolutely concur -from the luxury of maturity and life experience. Diana had neither, indeed MOST 19 year old's don't, which is why I find myself feeling angered by the mysogyny directed at her by some. However, that by no means assumes that I overlook how difficult she'd have been to cope with...............for a 'normal' -whatever that word means!- male, let alone one who'd been deferred to and feted all his life to the point at which he'd have been unable to see beyond his own needs.

 

[Pranter]

"Of course".

Some background I learned the other day....I was listening to a pod cast a couple weeks ago with one of the Emily's (Andrews or Nash) and this lady who is a body language expert was on the show talking about the wedding etc..she happened to be one who also watched Diana/Charles she said she got to see an longer less edited version of the famous engagement interview with them...and she said the body language after this 'whatever love means' exchange was very telling...she said it was like a stone dropped, they had been holding hands ...both looked away from each other and both were obviously uncomfortable.


I found that to be very interesting, not surprising.



LaRae

 

[Tsaritsa]

Some background I learned the other day....I was listening to a pod cast a couple weeks ago with one of the Emily's (Andrews or Nash) and this lady who is a body language expert was on the show talking about the wedding etc..she happened to be one who also watched Diana/Charles she said she got to see an longer less edited version of the famous engagement interview with them...and she said the body language after this 'whatever love means' exchange was very telling...she said it was like a stone dropped, they had been holding hands ...both looked away from each other and both were obviously uncomfortable.


I found that to be very interesting, not surprising.



LaRae

It was years before I became interested in psychology but I felt Diana's embarrassment and discomfort -well, what woman would have known how to react on hearing that the man she'd just become engaged to declared, in front of television cameras, to the world, that he wasn't certain what "in love" meant? It may have been at that point that I told my partner that there was much more than 13 chronological years separating them.

 

[M. Payton]

I think Charles said it all right there in the engagement interview.....*In whatever love meant*......that tells me that he was not in love with Diana and just going through the emotions that his family wanted.........a virgin bride willing to take him on and all the responsibilities that goes with being the crown prince. Diana well lived I think in a bit of a fantasy world and did not know how to really digest or even understand what she was getting into with this family. She might of been and was an aristocratic with royal heritage yet knowing all the ins and outs of being a crown princess and all that it entails........and at 19...with no real life experiences under her belt to learn from......in your dreams did she know all that or even realize that.

Charles and Diana should of just walked away and said the heck with it and didn't and hence we have the soap opera of all times to discuss and tear apart and try to make sense of...........just so thrilled their sons learned the lessons of their parents and now each as a spouse of the their own who understands what it means to be a member of the BRF.......not always easy in that glass house for all to see.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I think Charles said it all right there in the engagement interview.....*In whatever love meant*......that tells me that he was not in love with Diana and just going through the emotions that his family wanted.........a virgin bride willing to take him on and all the responsibilities that goes with being the crown prince. Diana well lived I think in a bit of a fantasy world and did not know how to really digest or even understand what she was getting into with this family. She might of been and was an aristocratic with royal heritage yet knowing all the ins and outs of being a crown princess and all that it entails........and at 19...with no real life experiences under her belt to learn from......in your dreams did she know all that or even realize that.

Charles and Diana should of just walked away and said the heck with it and didn't and hence we have the soap opera of all times to discuss and tear apart and try to make sense of...........just so thrilled their sons learned the lessons of their parents and now each as a spouse of the their own who understands what it means to be a member of the BRF.......not always easy in that glass house for all to see.

At 19, whilst I'd probably have made excuses for him saying it, I don't think I'd ever have forgotten the humiliation of hearing 'my' man tell the whole world that he wasn't sure what being in love meant. I wonder how many times those words returned to haunt her?

 

[Pranter]

It would of been humiliating to have that come back and bite you...knowing it's not even a private humiliation but a almost world wide one ....and then you get pissed. I'm surprised it wasn't worse than it was.


LaRae

 

[M. Payton]

At 19, whilst I'd probably have made excuses for him saying it, I don't think I'd ever have forgotten the humiliation of hearing 'my' man tell the whole world that he wasn't sure what being in love meant. I wonder how many times those words returned to haunt her?

I bet all the money I have in all that I own that those very words for the rest of her life came back to haunt her, once she started to grow and learn and remember things........she really let loose with her way of doing things, she almost destroyed the entire monarchy with her rage.......believe I get rage on what someone does to hurt another person big time.....been there! I think the only thing she felt she had going for her was the boys for she clearly showed she loved them deeply and they have to this day in some quiet ways have shown their love for her.....I don't blame anyone of this triangle yet there are those, well that is all for now.......time to move on and let the past rest in peace for all.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I bet all the money I have in all that I own that those very words for the rest of her life came back to haunt her, once she started to grow and learn and remember things........she really let loose with her way of doing things, she almost destroyed the entire monarchy with her rage.......believe I get rage on what someone does to hurt another person big time.....been there! I think the only thing she felt she had going for her was the boys for she clearly showed she loved them deeply and they have to this day in some quiet ways have shown their love for her.....I don't blame anyone of this triangle yet there are those, well that is all for now.......time to move on and let the past rest in peace for all.

It's good that we can use our own experiences -whatever they are- to inform our views of how it might feel to walk a mile in another's shoes. I feel that whilst there's now empathy with her, we're not necessarily condoning all her behaviours, but we're not disrespecting her memory.

 

[M. Payton]

Tsaritsa:
Your very correct on that point for I do not approve of her behavior at all, she was out of control in most of her decision making and reacted to her feelings of what, maybe betrayal that she felt in her marriage. I would like to think I can understand her and what she went through today more then what I have done in the past.......there is plenty of blame to pass around to all involved not just on Diana......yet life goes on for all of us, some just need more time to learn to cope better and Diana did not get that time after her divorce to learn that.

Thanks for the input and conversation.....

 

[veronicalambertis]

The only reason where even discussing these topics is because of what we read not so much of what we know. Everything from stepmother to her death, we really don't know. Even if Princess Diana she did what she did doesn"t mean she was telling the truth. Remember she was known to lie.

 

[Dman]

It’s 2019, so we’ll be seeing her official statue - commissioned by William and Harry - be erected at Kensington Palace. I can’t wait to see what the statue looks like and the ceremony for the unveiling.

 

[COUNTESS]

The only reason where even discussing these topics is because of what we read not so much of what we know. Everything from stepmother to her death, we really don't know. Even if Princess Diana she did what she did doesn"t mean she was telling the truth. Remember she was known to lie.

And Charles lied, too. And he loved another woman. Very apparent, now. She wasn't a passing fancy. Insecure Diana and philandering Charles. Yes, she had affairs, too, but not in the beginning. She just wanted a marriage. He wanted properly pedigreed children. He got them, she is dead. Her legacy is them.

 

[Curryong]

Yes. Diana's strong and enduring legacy is her sons, and their children and grandchildren and on through the generations.

I too am longing to see Diana's statue. I'm curious to see what part of her life the sculptor will choose to portray, with children, her own or other people's, or the sick, by herself, looking wistful, happy...? It will be interesting.

 

[Osipi]

Yes. Diana's strong and enduring legacy is her sons, and their children and grandchildren. I too am longing to see Diana's statue. I'm curious to see what part of her life the sculptor will choose to portray, with children, her own or other people's, or the sick, by herself, looking wistful, happy...? It will be interesting.

As the statue is being commissioned by her sons, I imagine that the sculptor would have sat down with them and discussed how they would want their mother portrayed.

If I had to give a guesstimate of the emotion reflected in the sculpture, it would be one of a woman embracing life with smiles and laughter and reflective of the good times William and Harry had with their mother. First picture that comes to mind is this one. Maybe not so extreme in the expression but similar.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dia...AKHbyFCA8Q9QEwBHoECAUQDA#imgrc=_4yty49BJCP4JM:

 

[Elan]

I'm curious to see what part of her life the sculptor will choose to portray, with children, her own or other people's, or the sick, by herself, looking wistful, happy...? It will be interesting.

Risk will be, sort of a millenial manifestation, reminiscent of the unveiling at Harrod's. Michelangelo is not available for hire and the problem is the culture which replaced him tends toward smart phone or hip hop crowd, for many people.

If I had to give a guesstimate of the emotion reflected in the sculpture, it would be one of a woman embracing life with smiles and laughter and reflective of the good times William and Harry had with their mother...

That could be terrific, depending on the artist.

 

[Queen Claude]

Lovely as she was, I am not sure if Diana will translate well to sculpture. Also most sculptures that I have seen that I consider good are of the serious or serene variety. I will be glad to be proven wrong.

 

[Lee-Z]

We could start a thread with "guess the image used for the statue", i would like something of this type, as imo this shows Diana really well how she was..
https://goo.gl/images/v4yWrc

 

[Denville]

Lovely as she was, I am not sure if Diana will translate well to sculpture. Also most sculptures that I have seen that I consider good are of the serious or serene variety. I will be glad to be proven wrong.

no I don't think so. she was young and her beauty was of the kind that Is about movement and colouring,. I don't think that it will look good in statue format.

 

[Lee-Z]

Ofcourse the statue might not be her actual image at all...the artist might intend to express the feeling Diana gave people or something like that...