The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997)

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1401  
Old 03-18-2015, 08:18 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyLily View Post
Regardless of what the late Princess's estate is now worth and whether or not she was image obsessed, her sons will be well looked after. Both financially and emotionally I think. Prince Charles really came into his own as a father after his ex-wife's untimely death. Both princes strike me as decent young men and more of their upbringing has occurred after Diana's death. The media circus around the family was curbed considerably after she died, and that could only have been a good thing.
Sure Charles should be apprciated for his good job. I am sure Diana would be very grateful to him too. Although it seems to me there are still some emontional issues, especially prince william, overall they are a healthy family, not worse than an ordinary one.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1402  
Old 03-18-2015, 07:49 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 367
Quote:
But you allege that her two photo ops on the landmine ban campaign is proof that Diana should be considered an example for all of us.
First of all, I think we need to get the history correct before starting a debate. Her anti-landmine campaign was definitely more than two photo ops.

During her trip to Angola from Jan 12-17 1997, she once said "you have to talk to the people at the top to help the people at the other end". This is not an empty words, it had specific meaning. On Jan 6, Diana asks Maggie Rae to fix a meeting between her and Tony blair (source the hearing), and once she came back from Angola, on Jan 21, Diana had a secret meeting iwth Tony Blair and his team. In the hearing, Simone Simmons testified that the purpose Diana wanted this meeting was to talk about landmine. And Maggie Rae who was also presented confirmed there was talk about mine. After the dinner meeting, Diana and Tony Blair kept in touch and meet from time to time.

On May 2, Labor wins a landslide General Election Victory. Tony Blair Became the Prime Minister. Then immediately on May 21, Tony Blair said to the Parliament:

Quote:
I can tell my honorable friend that the government will announce later today that we will ban the import, export, transfer and manufacture of anti-personnel mines. We shall also phase out the United Kingdom stocks of anti-personnel landmines and ban the trade through the United Kingdom of such landmines. They have caused enormous carnage, often to wholly innocent civilians including children. The sooner that Britain gives a lead in this, the better. It is the right and civilised thing to do
On June 24-27, A conference is held in Brussels, Belgium to review an early draft of the Mine Ban Treaty. There was not one word on victim assistance in the first draft of the treaty. It was time to line up who would support which issues for inclusion in the final treaty.

July 6, Diana met Tony Blair at Chequers. Diana also sents him several letters over the summer. In his 2010 memoirs, "A Journey: My Political Life", Tony Blair dedicates a chapter to Diana. However no single word of "landmine" is mentioned there. But in 1998, on the first anniversary of Diana's death, Blair said:

Quote:
"Her visit (Angola and Bosnia) did an enormous amount to focus international attention on the issue of anti-personnel landmines. I am sure everyone admired enormously her achievements and her compassion for the victims"
In 1997, Tony Blair was Diana's ally on the landmine issue. And Diana was an enthusiastic supporter to put language of rehanlibitating victims in the Mine Ban Treaty. It was hard to imagine she would not lobby Tony Blair to support her appeal. Based on the timeline, I think that was the main purpose of the meeting on July 6, and the following letters she sent him. I hope one day, Tony Blair would disclose the content of the letters to the public.

June 12, she gave a speech on Landmine.

June 17-18, she went to USA to help to raise 1 million dollars for mine victims, and also give two speeches on landmine there.

In Aug, she was planning to help to make a movie about protecting elephant from culling and poking. But Diana wanted to make the minefield as the major filming scene.

Quote:
"Maybe it could be a whole minefield. That would be a perfect way to draw attention to the terrible evil of those awful weapons. After what I have seen there is nothing more wicked than land mines" -- Diana to Gordon Brown, the script writer of the movie.
Not to mention on the last day, Aug 30, the charity for mine victims which Mr Al Fayed Senior had agreed to finance. I don't think people would simply believed Mr Al Fayed Senior would be so angel to finance such a charity for free. Actually he was not, otherwise, after Diana died, if he was such an angel he would continue to set up this charity himself. If Mr Al Fayed Senior had "agreed to" finance this charity, what Diana had "agreed to" in return. Look at the things happened on that day -- the telephone talk with Paul Burrell, Dodi's conversation with other people, tour in the Windsor Villa, the "tell-me-yes" ring -- I don't think I need to be too explicit about what she had "agreed to" in return.


So you see, Diana's involvement was much deeper than two photo "ops".
__________________

__________________
"Only a relative and fortunate few continue until the moment of death exploring the mystery of reality, ever enlarging and refining and redefining their understanding of the world and what is true..."
-- The Road Less Travelled
Reply With Quote
  #1403  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:04 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,139
I can't agree with very much in your post. First of all, regardless of your perceptions, Diana was a latecomer to the anti-landmine campaign. By January 1997, when Diana got involved, the anti-landmine campaign was mature. Belgium passed anti-landmine legislation in 1995 and Canada scheduled talks for the Ottawa Treaty in 1996. The UK Labor Party, headed by Tony Blair, supported the ban on landmines in September 1996--well before Diana's involvement in January of 1997. (BBC News | Landmines | What is Britain's landmine policy? The UK signed an EU Joint Action supporting a comprehensive global ban on antipersonnel mines in October of 1996.


The concept of including victim assistance language wasn't particularly controversial. Common sense would tell you that no one involved in drafting the anti-landmine treaty was opposed to assisting victims--the drafters were involved because they against the use of landmines because landmines hurt people.


The problem is that drafting international treaties is very complicated because each country has its own laws and customs. Drafters of an agreement like this will try and avoid provisions that would violate an individual country's constitution or other laws and regulations. For example, it may be illegal for a particular country to sign a treaty that imposes financial obligations.


It was also a matter of not wanting to distract from the main issue. The best way to help people is to prevent them from being injured in the first place. The purpose of the treaty was to ban the use of landmines. There were (and are) all sorts of relief agencies that are helping victims of landmines and other catastrophic events. Nothing in the original draft would have prevented anyone from providing assistance to landmine victims.


Personally, I wasn't opposed to including the language, but I didn't think that it would make any difference one way or another. Perhaps you can explain exactly what changed as the result of including the victims' assistance clause?
Reply With Quote
  #1404  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:23 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Diana was obsessed with her image.

She spent hours and hours each day going over the newspapers. Reviewing each and every pictures. If there was image that she didn't like or anything remotely negative she was petulant through out the day and rude to her staff.

Royals hand out photos of themselves, normally only having a photo taken once a year. Diana, however, would have her photo taken several times a year and it would entail a full photo session lasting all day.

Source her private secretary Jephson.
She never had to be obsessed with her image, as the world was. There are literally thousands of pictures of her and most were quite sought after. And how do you know that after all those pictures, she cared about each and everyone of them. I doubt that. But as you, obviously, don't like who she was, which is your right, she is still popular here in the States and in other places in Europe and England, too. Most royals hand out photos and no one cares. Magazines are not overwhelmed by getting a photo of Charles or Camilla. But Kate on the other hand......She is long dead and yet you have found it important to write something trivial and negative.
Reply With Quote
  #1405  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:32 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
It was reported while Diana was alive that she would check the photos in the press of her daily and would get upset if one was less than flattering. Not trivial or negative but true and shows a side of her that is narcissistic.
Reply With Quote
  #1406  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:56 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It was reported while Diana was alive that she would check the photos in the press of her daily and would get upset if one was less than flattering. Not trivial or negative but true and shows a side of her that is narcissistic.
Oh, no wonder she threw herself down a set of stairs!!

Sorry, I don't really mean that.
Reply With Quote
  #1407  
Old 03-19-2015, 01:09 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It was reported while Diana was alive that she would check the photos in the press of her daily and would get upset if one was less than flattering. Not trivial or negative but true and shows a side of her that is narcissistic.
No one like unflattering pictures of themselves. It's one of the reasons why many royals that's in her same position today, dress to impress when out and about on official engagements. Diana wasn't obsessed with her looks, but always tried to put her best face forward. It didn't always work though.
__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
  #1408  
Old 03-19-2015, 06:00 AM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
She never had to be obsessed with her image, as the world was. There are literally thousands of pictures of her and most were quite sought after. And how do you know that after all those pictures, she cared about each and everyone of them. I doubt that. But as you, obviously, don't like who she was, which is your right, she is still popular here in the States and in other places in Europe and England, too. Most royals hand out photos and no one cares. Magazines are not overwhelmed by getting a photo of Charles or Camilla. But Kate on the other hand......She is long dead and yet you have found it important to write something trivial and negative.
I was responding to a post.
Just because Diana is dead does not excuse her bad behavior toward her staff.

Diana's private secretary made the observation of of Diana's behavior.
She spent hours and hours each day going over the newspapers. Reviewing each and every picture.
If there was image that she didn't like or anything remotely negative she was petulant through out the day and rude to her staff.

The newspapers did not publish thousands of photos each day of Diana.
Reply With Quote
  #1409  
Old 03-19-2015, 06:31 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
I was responding to a post.
Just because Diana is dead does not excuse her bad behavior toward her staff.

Diana's private secretary made the observation of of Diana's behavior.
She spent hours and hours each day going over the newspapers. Reviewing each and every picture.
If there was image that she didn't like or anything remotely negative she was petulant through out the day and rude to her staff.

The newspapers did not publish thousands of photos each day of Diana.
So the newspapers did not publish thousands of photos of Diana each day, then how come she had to spend hours and hours each day to go over her photos. Such a blunt lie, and you can not tell.
__________________
"Only a relative and fortunate few continue until the moment of death exploring the mystery of reality, ever enlarging and refining and redefining their understanding of the world and what is true..."
-- The Road Less Travelled
Reply With Quote
  #1410  
Old 03-19-2015, 06:58 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,936
No, not thousands but the meaning was clear: apparently the late Diana was obsessed with how she was portrayed in media (articles and pictures) and a negative comment or a poor picture could destroy her good feeling for the day. That sounds plausible and very recognizable. How often do we not hear from an actor, a sportsman, an author, a politician that out of the dozens of positive reviews, only the negative one sticks in their mind?



I can imagine that the late Diana, despite reading many positive reviews, "completely went from her ā propos" (as we say in France) when she was confronted with negative comments or unflattering photos. This easily can result in an obsession.
Reply With Quote
  #1411  
Old 03-19-2015, 09:29 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No, not thousands but the meaning was clear: apparently the late Diana was obsessed with how she was portrayed in media (articles and pictures) and a negative comment or a poor picture could destroy her good feeling for the day. That sounds plausible and very recognizable. How often do we not hear from an actor, a sportsman, an author, a politician that out of the dozens of positive reviews, only the negative one sticks in their mind?



I can imagine that the late Diana, despite reading many positive reviews, "completely went from her ā propos" (as we say in France) when she was confronted with negative comments or unflattering photos. This easily can result in an obsession.
I agree. In an earlier post (#1353), anbrida alleged that despite all the positive publicity Diana received from she received from the landmine photo ops, she decided to stop all public duties and move abroad because she was criticized by two Tory ministers--which is a pretty extreme reaction to a little criticism.
Reply With Quote
  #1412  
Old 03-19-2015, 09:42 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,479
Diana cared less to the criticism she received over her landmines pictures. She knew tackling bigger issues like that would bring on the critics, and she accepted it.
__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
  #1413  
Old 03-19-2015, 10:09 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree. In an earlier post (#1353), anbrida alleged that despite all the positive publicity Diana received from she received from the landmine photo ops, she decided to stop all public duties and move abroad because she was criticized by two Tory ministers--which is a pretty extreme reaction to a little criticism.
On the surface, it seems she was just being "criticized", who know under the surface, what kind of "warning" she had received. For an instance, when she was on the trip in Angola, the Tory ministers accused her being "loose cannon" and blah, blah. Okay, it looks like people just "criticized" her. Under the surface, in Feb, she got a phone call which warned her "Drop the anti-landmines campaign, you never know when an accident is going to happen". That is from the someone's testimony in the court, not only a story.

And when she decided to go to Bosnia, similar things happened.

Quote:
"She really needed to help people, but instead I feel that she was 'used' by a couple of institutions and groups. And there was a falling-out with a couple of British charities. When you think about it, when she decided to visit Bosnia she was going with two Americans who were not really part of the so-called `official' circuit. Some people didn't approve and virtually tried to stop her coming. But she ignored them all. As far as she was concerned, she was going to Bosnia as ordinary citizen and no-one could stop her" -- Ken Rutherford
On Aug 21st, she did her last interview with Le Monde, in which she said

"I feel close to people, whoever they are. We're immediately at the same level, on the same wavelength. That's why I upset certain circles. It's because I'm much closer to the people at the bottom than the people at the top, and the latter won't FORGIVE me for it"

Who is the people at the top, who is the people at the bottom? Here is a hint, when she was in Anglo, she said "You have to talk to people at the top to help people at the other end".

You might not believe that, when I write this, I am risking my ID's life. If this can happen to me, how can anyone be so sure that Diana was not under any pressure in private when she did her campaign. So it was possible that she made those decisions because she tried to be obedient, so that they would not harm her.
__________________
"Only a relative and fortunate few continue until the moment of death exploring the mystery of reality, ever enlarging and refining and redefining their understanding of the world and what is true..."
-- The Road Less Travelled
Reply With Quote
  #1414  
Old 03-19-2015, 10:37 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,139
Anbrida, I do understand that people in certain parts of the world can be put in danger when they criticize or upset their governments. However, if the arms manufacturers wanted to kill anyone they would have targeted people who were making serious progress in the ban on landmines: A partial list includes: Jody Williams of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines (which later won the Nobel Peace Prize); Shawn Roberts, who wrote a best selling book on the issue; Cambodia's Prince Sihanouk who was one of the first world leaders who spoke out on the issue; Canadian Foreign Minister Lloyd Axworthy who actually negotiated the wording of the treaty; and UNICEF's Jim Grant who was essential to coordinating efforts. Diana's two photo ops and a few letters didn't make nearly the impact of the contributions of the people listed above and many others not mentioned here.


All of the above would have been higher on any "hit list" than Princess Diana. She may have received a crank call or two but if she was so worried, she should have contacted the police and accepted the Queen's offer for royal protection services. The fact that she didn't do either indicates that she didn't take the calls (if they occurred) seriously
Reply With Quote
  #1415  
Old 03-19-2015, 12:50 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,007
She was analyzing them, I believe. Early in her years as Princess of Wales, she didn't make many speeches. Even as she made more speeches in later years, her appeal was still largely visual. She used photos as a communication tool. If she was trying to communicate something in particular, and there was a bad picture, she'd be upset about it. She was like a silent-film actress in a way. This didn't apply to the people who saw her or dealt with her in person, but it did apply to those who largely 'knew' her through newspapers and magazines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
So the newspapers did not publish thousands of photos of Diana each day, then how come she had to spend hours and hours each day to go over her photos. Such a blunt lie, and you can not tell.
Reply With Quote
  #1416  
Old 03-19-2015, 01:18 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 3,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post


Not to mention on the last day, Aug 30, the charity for mine victims which Mr Al Fayed Senior had agreed to finance. I don't think people would simply believed Mr Al Fayed Senior would be so angel to finance such a charity for free. Actually he was not, otherwise, after Diana died, if he was such an angel he would continue to set up this charity himself. If Mr Al Fayed Senior had "agreed to" finance this charity, what Diana had "agreed to" in return. Look at the things happened on that day -- the telephone talk with Paul Burrell, Dodi's conversation with other people, tour in the Windsor Villa, the "tell-me-yes" ring -- I don't think I need to be too explicit about what she had "agreed to" in return.


So you see, Diana's involvement was much deeper than two photo "ops".

I simply cannot believe that Diana would ever have agreed to marry a man like Dodi Fayed.

(I always thought she took up with him in the first place as a show of defiance to Charles and the RF. But MARRY him? No way!)
Reply With Quote
  #1417  
Old 03-19-2015, 02:46 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,007
I agree with you on this one, Mirabel. I think that Diana was very idealistic, in her own way. I don't think she'd marry someone as some sort of a quid pro quo. She seemed to see all her relationships with men as great affairs of the heart.
Reply With Quote
  #1418  
Old 03-19-2015, 03:42 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,057
She told her friend (the Spanish Woman who's name I can't remember) she had no intention of marrying Dodi. That she needed a marriage like a bad rash on her face.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #1419  
Old 03-19-2015, 04:41 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,007
Lucia Flecha de Lima? She's Brazilian.
Reply With Quote
  #1420  
Old 03-19-2015, 04:48 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 11,479
No, Diana wasn't planning on marrying Dodi. That story came from Dodi's father.
__________________

__________________
"THE REAL POWER OF A MAN IS IN THE SIZE OF THE SMILE OF THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO HIM."

GENTLEMAN'S ESSENTIALS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diana princess of wales, legacy, memorial, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Left Or Right-Handed Royals? Peggy Royal Life and Lifestyle 49 02-03-2016 02:34 AM
The Legacy of Elizabeth II vkrish British Royals 21 12-18-2012 07:45 AM
Princess Grace's Legacy HMTLove23 Princely Family of Monaco 16 02-18-2011 06:15 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece josephine-charlotte kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week pierre casiraghi portugal prince bernhard prince charles princess charlene outfits princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathilde's daytime fashion queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania fashion royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises