Diana's Legacy: What is left or what will be left?


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Interesting insight. Thanks. When the Daily Mail has an article again about Diana, I am surprised by the poisionous vitriol in the comments. So she was not at all the Holy Diana, Rose of England, as we foreigners seem to think.
 
Interesting insight. Thanks. When the Daily Mail has an article again about Diana, I am surprised by the poisionous vitriol in the comments. So she was not at all the Holy Diana, Rose of England, as we foreigners seem to think.


True, but just about everyone who is mentioned is subjected to poisonous vitriol from some commenters. (That even includes George and Charlotte, and they are just babies).
 
The 'Mail' caters for two of our most unattractive character traits - the desire to 'put people on pedestals' and then [MORE pleasurable] to knock them off again, and to snipe at people perceived as 'more fortunate than ourselves', without mercy. NO-ONE [not even babes-in arms] is exempt !
 
Maybe she would have settled in and become a sort of global charity ambassador but without leaking the stories to the press stuff of earlier days.

I think Diana's presence in life would have dramatically altered the life-trajectory of Charles and her sons. No question. At some point, probably if she remarried an older wealthy man, and the true extent of her press manipulations became public knowledge, the public would have become jaded and 'turned' on her, at which point (and only at which point) Charles would have become free to marry Camilla (but not before).

I can also see that it could have gone the opposite way. She could have a problem giving up the Royal spotlight

Exactly so. :sad: It was already happening at the time imo. The degree to which she strove to stay in the public's awareness with the Dodi Fayed photo-ops should be an indication of what was in store.

getting older and watching a new woman become involved with her sons as the start to date and get married. Kate gets compared to Diana now image if she was still alive and didn't want you around. William may not have even met Kate.

I agree with those who suspect that William would never have married, unless he continued his rebellion that far. With Diana's death, William's natural adolescent rebellion took a turn. Had she lived, it's possible William would have turned out differently and gone his own route with women of choice. This will always be the greatest unknown, but I suspect Kate would never have had the chance to enter the picture had Diana lived.

It seems to me any woman who married William would be subject to such comparisons by certain segments of the press. The only way to avoid it would be to remain a bachelor.

Which I think he may well have done, especially when Diana's issues of abandonment are considered. :sad:

As with most people who are no longer with us, we have a tendency to remember the good and forget the bad. Who knows what Diana would be up to or what her views would be on things if she were alive.

True enough, but one can look at the character and the tendencies. I am somewhat of a history buff and post on an alternate history chat site. There we debate might-have-beens. Some of the discussions I've engaged in: What If the Cathars never had the Inquisition mounted against them? What would have been the course of French history centered in Carcassonne with that sort of dualism gaining ascendency? What if the Inquisition had never been mounted at all? What if Catholic priests never took a vow of celibacy? What if the Templars had never been purged? What if the Moors had never been driven out of Spain and the Jewish people had never been forced to flee to Poland and Germany? [My interest is in the High Middle Ages. ;) ]

What is interesting is how much character (and tendencies) determines history. Germany may not have won WWII, for example, but the tendency for dominance remained and they govern Europe now as much as they would have had they won, though in a different way. But this is a side comment. I just mean to show that discussion of might-have-beens is a fascinating topic from an historical perspective for those so interested.

I find it difficult though to believe she would be nothing but happy for William and eventually Harry to find love.

Given the character of the woman and the demonstrated tendency to need absolute devotion from the men in her life, I doubt that William and Harry would have had an easy time dating in the face of Diana's possessiveness. Diana would not have been a happy camper. That's a hunch. We will never know, of course, but all signs point to that.
 
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If Diana was alive and she interfered with either William or Harry's love life, they'd tell her to take a long walk off a short pier. That's my opinion. I mean they love their mother but c'mon. The same for their dad.

If she was still alive and that unstable she'd be 'resting comfortably' at shady acres or something.
 
If Diana was alive and she interfered with either William or Harry's love life, they'd tell her to take a long walk off a short pier. That's my opinion. I mean they love their mother but c'mon.

What I said was that Diana would not be a happy camper, not that her sons wouldn't date. However, given her character and the issues she demonstrated during her life, especially her reliance upon William, I think it is reasonable to suppose that William might date but he would never be allowed to 'desert' her for a wife. Just a hunch.

The above would fly in the face of the dynastic imperative to marry and produce an heir but the possibility looms. Who Diana would have approved would have been fascinating to watch, though.

The same for their dad.

I think you're underestimating the sheer inertial weight of Diana's fans' influence back then. :sad:

If she was still alive and that unstable she'd be 'resting comfortably' at shady acres or something.

Unlikely imo. :sad:
 
a bit surprised for me to hear that most people there in Britain prefers to forget

Another contributory factor to the change in public perception, was [I believe] the Film 'the Queen' [2006], which was seen by MILLIONS here [and far beyond]. Although it showed Diana as a trapped and hunted woman, it accented and publicised the bullying the Queen was subjected to, by the Politicans, the Press and the Public in September 1997.

Although many Monarchists had been aware of this before the film came out, the majority of the public hadn't, and since NO-ONE likes their much loved 'Grandmother' bullied [especially when she is protecting precious children], the reaction was profound, and did much to cement the view that the British public behaved appallingly during the whole sorry story !
 
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As has been noted before, this is not the thread to speculate on William and Harry's relationship with Diana, or whether or not William would have married Catherine had Diana still been alive. Please get back on topic.
 
Diana's "legacy" will only live on in bits and pieces through her 2 sons.
- William likes to keep his family private because of the media's hounding of his late mother. He already has issued warnings to all and threatened to sue if pics of George and Charlotte are take clandestinely and published. Already somewhere in these forums, people were deciding if, when, and where George needs to start preschool and why. He doesn't understand yet, but there already pressure being placed upon a 2 year old. They need to let his parents parent him and be happy any information about his life is officially released by his parents.
- Harry is even more of a genuinely warm, down-to-earth person than was his mother. He seems to be very "fluid" - he is comfortable and appropriate in any situation and with people in any circumstance(s). The press doesn't hound him because it would just bounce off of him. He is nice to the press and they are nice to him in return. Even if something bad would be reported about him, he would go on smiling, photo - bombing, being his happy-go-lucky self. He has be given everything in life, but never gives the impression of being a spoiled brat.
- other than through her 2 sons, Diana is no more...there is no "if she had lived then maybe..." There is no "maybe" because she passed away many years ago, and none of the "maybe's" will ever be...
 
:previous:


We do know that should would be very proud of her sons, continue to be a loving mother and now grandmother. We can say that because of the way she lived her life.
 
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I think you are underestimating the affection people who were of her generation or slightly older had and still have for her, NotHRH. If she is forgotten except in the memories of her sons, why the number of threads and pages on Diana on this forum (84 on this thread alone) and why are there Tumblrs and Internet sites still devoted to her?

The Queen Mother and Princess Margaret, the former beloved in her day, the latter a media star in her day, died years after her and don't hold that interest. Even today Camilla is not the Princess of Wales, a decision made after she married Charles because of possible public reaction to a title held by Diana.
 
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:previous:


Excellent post.
I always think William knew what he was doing when he gave Kate his mothers ring it is in every photo every time she steps out.
It's saying don't forget her she's part of us


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
 
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I think you are underestimating the affection people who were of her generation or slightly older had and still have for her, NotHRH. If she is forgotten except in the memories of her sons, why the number of threads and pages on Diana on this forum (84 on this thread alone) and why are there Tumblrs and Internet sites still devoted to her?

The Queen Mother and Princess Margaret, the former beloved in her day, the latter a media star in her day, died years after her and don't hold that interest. Even today Camilla is not the Princess of Wales, a decision made after she married Charles because of possible public reaction to a title held by Diana.

I am of Diana's generation - Diana was born in 1961, I was born in 1965. It is not so much remembering her, it is all of the "if she had lived then maybe..." I think Time magazine had an edition of "Diana at 50" four years ago. There was no Diana at 50 - she died at barely 36 years old. It is all of the "what if's" I object to because there are no and there will never be any what if's. Diana will be forever 36 and that's all there is to it. The Queen Mum and P Margaret both grew older and media attention to them both waned; Diana will never be old. Actually and officially Camilla is THE Princess of Wales, but chose to be known as The Duchess of Cornwall out of "respect" for William, Harry, and somewhat for Diana. It was announced also Camilla will be The Princess Consort when (if?) Charles becomes king, but enough time has passed and I do believe she will be HM The Queen. Everyone seems more accepting of Camilla than was originally thought. Memories and affection for a person who has passed can be very soothing, but there are no "what if's" because they will never be. Would William have married Kate if Diana had lived, and would Wm and Harry be different people than they are today if Diana was still with us? Doesn't matter - because that is not the reality of the situation. Wm married Kate and Wm's and Harry's personalities today I'm sure have been affected in some ways because of Diana's death. Honoring her memory is wonderful but all of the speculation of her being alive today is pointless because she exists no longer...that is the reality of this situation.
 
:previous:


Again we all know she died doesn't mean we can't talk about what ifs. I took my grandsons to my mothers grave and spoke about how much she would have loved them. So I say Diana would have loved her grandchildren. talking about people who have passed isn't pointless and most people who have lost a love one would agree.


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I believe and this is my humble opinion that Diana, Princess of Wales, death and the reaction to it shocked many including The Royal Family. Discussions were had and changes made. She will not be airbrushed out of history, I suspect.
 
50 years from now when they are making biographies or documentaries about the BRF Diana will still get a spot. You can't talk about her sons/grandchildren, one of which will be a reigning monarch, without talking about her. That sapphire is going to be passed down as well.


LaRae
 
50 years from now when they are making biographies or documentaries about the BRF Diana will still get a spot. You can't talk about her sons/grandchildren, one of which will be a reigning monarch, without talking about her. That sapphire is going to be passed down as well. LaRae

That is just what is seems like to people who are now alive but come back in 50 years or so she will remembered as much as Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.

Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld daughter was much more famous than Diana and Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld is rarely or never mentioned when discussing her grandchildren. Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld was alive when her grandchildren were alive.

When the diehards fans of Diana die out so will the 'legacy'.

When Charlotte is older they will compare her to Kate.
When George marries his wife will be compared to Kate.

There will always be a few, especially older, who will try to compare everyone to Diana but those people are getting fewer and fewer.

The ring may or may not be passed on but it will be the same as the jewelry the Queen wears, a few will know the provenance but most will not.
 
I am sure that as time passes, Diana will have her own blips in the annals of British royal history but I don't believe it will be extensive. 100 years from now perhaps she will be regarded as perhaps Wallis Simpson is now (due to her relationship with The Prince of Wales/King Edward VIII). Diana's royal phase in her life was relatively short from 1981-1996 although during that time she did provide the heir and the spare from which the succession to the Crown will continue.
 
I specifically did NOT say talking about Diana posthumously should NOT be done, or that she should be air - brushed out of BRF history. It's the ridiculous speculations, such as Diana would not have approved of Kate, or if Diana was still alive, Wm and Harry's lives would so different than they are now. The TIME magazine cover 4 years ago, "Diana at 50" with an illustration of what a 50 year-old Diana would have looked like was just stupid (the BEST word I can use to describe it). Go back, read, and try to understand my previous post. Posters are insuating things did state at all - read my previous post and undertand it before posting anything else about how I don't get this and that. Don't put words in my mouth when my post was obviously not understood.
 
I think you are underestimating the affection people who were of her generation or slightly older had and still have for her, NotHRH. If she is forgotten except in the memories of her sons, why the number of threads and pages on Diana on this forum (84 on this thread alone) and why are there Tumblrs and Internet sites still devoted to her?

The Queen Mother and Princess Margaret, the former beloved in her day, the latter a media star in her day, died years after her and don't hold that interest. Even today Camilla is not the Princess of Wales, a decision made after she married Charles because of possible public reaction to a title held by Diana.

Camilla is very much the Princess of Wales. She is HRH Princess Charles, The princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall....... Camilla has chosen to use one of her husband's lesser titles, but that is her choice and she is very much entitled to be called Princess of Wales. Honestly as much as it was said to be out of respect to her stepsons and their memories of their mother, it also is likely just to make things simpler. Diana is still considered Priness of Wales by the media and so many. Having a new POW would be a gong show. Instead of being Camilla, the new princess of wales, or current princess of wales, or whatever, Camilla Chooses to be Duchess of Cornwall, and like Diana, in Scotland Duchess of Rothesy.
 
Yes, Duchess of Cornwall, a title chosen at the time because of possible public reaction (as Diana was THE Princess of Wales in the public mind) which is precisely what I said in my post!

As for other posters pointing out that when die-hard Diana fans pass it will be a new era and she won't be remembered, several of the hard-core Diana fans that I know are women in their forties. If they and others live a normal life-span that's still 40 years or so into the future.

Those who dislike Diana for various reasons constantly look to a bright future for Camilla in the public mind. Well, it hasn't happened so far has it? All polls conducted in the past few years show her personal popularity ratings as extremely low.
 
Camilla is very much the Princess of Wales. She is HRH Princess Charles, The princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall....... Camilla has chosen to use one of her husband's lesser titles, but that is her choice and she is very much entitled to be called Princess of Wales. Honestly as much as it was said to be out of respect to her stepsons and their memories of their mother, it also is likely just to make things simpler. Diana is still considered Priness of Wales by the media and so many. Having a new POW would be a gong show. Instead of being Camilla, the new princess of wales, or current princess of wales, or whatever, Camilla Chooses to be Duchess of Cornwall, and like Diana, in Scotland Duchess of Rothesy.

Exactly. It is very possible that had Diana lived and Charles did marry Camilla with a living ex wife, it would be within the rights of Camilla to be known as The Princess of Wales whereas Diana would use the divorced styling as Diana, Princess of Wales. It follows along the same lines as Charles Spencer's ex-wives using (name), Countess Spencer whereas his current wife would be The Countess Spencer I believe.
 
That is just what is seems like to people who are now alive but come back in 50 years or so she will remembered as much as Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld.

Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld daughter was much more famous than Diana and Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld is rarely or never mentioned when discussing her grandchildren. Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld was alive when her grandchildren were alive.

When the diehards fans of Diana die out so will the 'legacy'.

When Charlotte is older they will compare her to Kate.
When George marries his wife will be compared to Kate.

There will always be a few, especially older, who will try to compare everyone to Diana but those people are getting fewer and fewer.

The ring may or may not be passed on but it will be the same as the jewelry the Queen wears, a few will know the provenance but most will not.
Princess Victoria of saxe coburg saalfeld daughter was queen victoria. You are saying she was not well known?
 
Exactly. It is very possible that had Diana lived and Charles did marry Camilla with a living ex wife, it would be within the rights of Camilla to be known as The Princess of Wales whereas Diana would use the divorced styling as Diana, Princess of Wales. It follows along the same lines as Charles Spencer's ex-wives using (name), Countess Spencer whereas his current wife would be The Countess Spencer I believe.

Not just possible, it WOULD be. The wife of the Prince of wales is the Princess of Wales plain and simple. Camilla can choose to go by whatever title she wants of her husband's but she IS The Princess of Wales, and would have been The Princess of Wales even if Diana had lived. I thik if Diana had lived Camilla would have been even more likely not to use it, not wanting the whole old vs new comparison.

Yes divorced wives use their titles as a last name, Sarah, Duchess of York for example. Its no longer a title but a surname until they remarry. I don't know about his second wife, but Charles Spencer's first wife Victoria is remarried, so she no longer is referred to as Victoria, Countess spencer.
 
No-one is denying, as far as I know, that, as Charles's wife, Camilla is Princess of Wales.

However, the point of my original post was to point out that, at the time of Charles's second marriage, Palace advisers were very wary of the public's reaction to Camilla assuming the title of Princess of Wales. This was almost certainly due to the deep public mourning at Diana's funeral which was virtually unprecedented and the feelings which emanated from that event.

That, and that alone is, in my view, why Camilla assumed the title of Duchess of Cornwall. The Palace and the RF were worried about the British people's reaction to an extremely unpopular woman who, in the public mind, was blamed for much of the misery of Diana's marriage, assuming the title of her much-loved predecessor.
 
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Princess Victoria of saxe coburg saalfeld daughter was queen victoria. You are saying she was not well known?

I believe she is saying that Queen Victoria's mother isn't well known - not that Queen Victoria herself isn't well known.

She is correct with that as most people couldn't name Queen Victoria's mother or possibly even her father. Many probably assume that William IV is her father as the most usual way for a monarch to succeed is to follow their parent.

Obviously people who study royals or 19th Century British history would know Victoria's relationship to William but again not all of them would necessarily know the name of Victoria's mother. Within her own lifetime, Victoria's mother was well-known but now - not so well known and Diana will end up possibly the same way - the mother of a king etc but not as a consort in her own right.
 
Diana's "legacy" will only live on in bits and pieces through her 2 sons.
- William likes to keep his family private because of the media's hounding of his late mother. He already has issued warnings to all and threatened to sue if pics of George and Charlotte are take clandestinely and published. Already somewhere in these forums, people were deciding if, when, and where George needs to start preschool and why. He doesn't understand yet, but there already pressure being placed upon a 2 year old. They need to let his parents parent him and be happy any information about his life is officially released by his parents.
- Harry is even more of a genuinely warm, down-to-earth person than was his mother. He seems to be very "fluid" - he is comfortable and appropriate in any situation and with people in any circumstance(s). The press doesn't hound him because it would just bounce off of him. He is nice to the press and they are nice to him in return. Even if something bad would be reported about him, he would go on smiling, photo - bombing, being his happy-go-lucky self. He has be given everything in life, but never gives the impression of being a spoiled brat.
- other than through her 2 sons, Diana is no more...there is no "if she had lived then maybe..." There is no "maybe" because she passed away many years ago, and none of the "maybe's" will ever be...
In a way I think you are right. Her two sons are the inevitable result of a broken home, of which there are hundreds of thousands. The only thing that distinguishes them is their parents divorce and the subsequent death of their mother was played out in the media, a lot of which they did not see or understand at that time.

But, I have to admit to a really creepy feeling when people make sweeping statements about what would have happened if their mother had not died at 36. She did and ideas that one, both or neither of her sons would have joined the military, they would both be happily married or happy bachelors, that Diana would have loved or loathed their wives, etc. are pure speculation and not what this thread is about.

Diana's legacy is one thing, her fantasy life quite another.
 
Diana's legacy is one thing, her fantasy life quite another.

Hmmm.....well, a summation of legacy entails the counter-image as much as the positive. :flowers:

Of course, we will never know. Life being what it is, people change, recover, mature, move on. Voila! It all changes in ways one could never have imagined. :cool:
 
Yes, it and others like it have been around for some time. It's not in the best of taste and really rather creepy but some people on the internet absolutely love these photoshop creations. I'm ambivalent about them, really.

I know it's only fanciful to imagine Diana's reaction to her grandchildren as she's dead, but I believe she would have adored them.
 
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