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  #881  
Old 05-13-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Back to Diana:
Whatever you can say about her marriage or the role she played in the BRF - she did make mistakes like all people do...but her charitable causes and her success can not be denied!
IMO she changed the way that modern royals behave - before her most royals would just wave and say a few nice things to their fans,cut a few ribbons and hold speeches etc. With Diana there was a whole level of new "closeness" to the people- she really LISTENED to people, she had empathy for suffering souls because she had her fair share of trouble and emotional issues, so she knew what people went through...
Now every modern royal has to do some charity,meet people and pretend to be one "of the people", before her most royals tried to be different and better than the average people they were representing.
This is also due to a strong press, media like TV and internet etc. where people can share pictures,stories and discuss everything that they care about.In order to stay in power the Royal Families in Europe MUST be seen as likeable and approachable, if they were snobbish and arrogant they would be soon out of power!

Also another point: Diana was one of the main reasons why the Ottawa treaty against landmines was finally signed (even though some countries did not sign it- many countries did do so!) because she rallied for the cause-after her death they could not possibly kill her cause and continue with this inhumane landmine business...this treaty saved a lot of people´s limbs and lives-this is more than most people can accomplish with their life!
Also, she did change they way we treat people with AIDS. Of course, the society would have changed over time- but her efforts did help to make this change go faster.
Just on a sidenote:There are still many ppl who do not know enough about AIDS or HIV and have very strange ideas and prejudices about it or do not take the risk seriously!
I'm sorry I can't agree with many of the arguments you make. Princess Diana wasn't the first member of the royal family who became involved in charities. Members of the royal family were involved with charitable causes long before Diana married the Prince of Wales. Princess Anne was involved with Save the Children long before Diana. The Prince's Trust was established to help young people who had been in trouble with the law, which is a brave choice. I think it is easier to be sympathetic to dying people than to people whose lives are in shambles because of their own choices. Charles did not just show up, he actually runs the charity.

Diana helped generate publicity for AIDS and landmines, but there were other celebrities and news stories working for the same causes. It is an injustice to them to ignore their years of hard work because Diana was also involved. In fact, she only became involved in the landmine campaign a few months before her death. Doctors Without Borders and the International Red Cross fought against landmines for years--with great success--and got news stories on U.S. television, if not British TV. They saved many lives. Diana used her fame to get more publicity, but she didn't start the fight, nor did she successfully negotiate the treaty.

What Diana did was add an aura of informality to her charity work. She didn't just talk to the doctors and say a few words to the patients, she took their hands, picked up children, gave them hugs, and otherwise physically embodied compassion and sympathy. That's not to say that the royal family did not have compassion and sympathy, they just didn't radiate it the way Diana did. Her sons have the same informal manner, which is great.
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  #882  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:02 PM
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Obviously some people are unable to read properly what I write, I find that quite annoying and it also does not help us to have a good,informative discussion about Diana and her legacy.
I did never write that she was the FIRST in anything she did, she was only one of the most written-about and most photographed persons who did certain things and this way she made it so popular.

Do you believe that Coco Chanel was the FIRST to invent the famous Tweed jacket or do you believe that Marlene Dietrich was the FIRST glamourous woman to wear a suit in public? Well, if you do, let me tell you one thing: They were not the first people to do so, but they were the ones who made it so popular and created such a fancy about it!

This is similar with many "inventions" and scientific findings- they are usually not associated with the people who did it first, but with those who made it famous and popular.

Sorry if I may sound harsh, but this needed to be said.
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  #883  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Obviously some people are unable to read properly what I write, I find that quite annoying and it also does not help us to have a good,informative discussion about Diana and her legacy.
I did never write that she was the FIRST in anything she did, she was only one of the most written-about and most photographed persons who did certain things and this way she made it so popular.

Do you believe that Coco Chanel was the FIRST to invent the famous Tweed jacket or do you believe that Marlene Dietrich was the FIRST glamourous woman to wear a suit in public? Well, if you do, let me tell you one thing: They were not the first people to do so, but they were the ones who made it so popular and created such a fancy about it!

This is similar with many "inventions" and scientific findings- they are usually not associated with the people who did it first, but with those who made it famous and popular.

Sorry if I may sound harsh, but this needed to be said.
I was referring to your allegation that "Diana was one of the main reasons why the Ottawa Treaty against landmines was finally signed."

Your statement is unsupported by history. The treaty was being negotiated long before Diana became involved in landmines and would have been signed regardless. There were many articles and Television news stories about landmines before Diana got involved. The U.S. Congress held hearings about this issue long before Diana got involved.

I worked on the landmine issue and the treaty was pretty much completed before Diana's photo op. To suggest otherwise is to denigrate the hard work of many people who spent years on this issue.

You were on firmer ground with your discussion of AIDS, although again, she was one of the first, but she was one of many.

I'm sorry you took offense, but I take offense at arguments that a major international treaty was only ratified because Princess Diana was involved in two photo ops. She had many good qualities and has left wonderful memories for many people, but she was not one of the main reasons for the Ottawa Treaty.

ETA: I also felt that by claiming the royal family only "cut a few ribbons and hold speeches," also minimized the work of the royal family. I don't think that helps to a generate good, informative discussion of Diana's legacy.

I did read your post before responding.
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  #884  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:50 PM
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Just want to add my 2 cents here....No, Diana wasn't the first member of the BRF to do charity work, but as you both said, she was the first to do so in the way she did. The first with that aura of informality.As a little girl with CP, seeing that a Princess was willing to really talk to people in wheelchairs really made an impact. And I never met her.
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  #885  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by roseroyal View Post
Just want to add my 2 cents here....No, Diana wasn't the first member of the BRF to do charity work, but as you both said, she was the first to do so in the way she did. The first with that aura of informality.As a little girl with CP, seeing that a Princess was willing to really talk to people in wheelchairs really made an impact. And I never met her.
Princess Diana truly connected with people in a way that few others can. Her love for vulnerable people really shone when she was with children or the disabled. It's so inspiring to see her truly care about other people.

Roseroyal, if you don't mind my asking, what is CP?
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  #886  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:59 PM
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I think that her own problems are what gave her insight into others. There is nothing like surviving something to give insight.
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  #887  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
I think that her own problems are what gave her insight into others. There is nothing like surviving something to give insight.
I think you are absolutely correct. Even before her engagement, Diana seemed like someone who just cared about other people. She is not the only child to have lived through a divorce, but I think she tried to learn from that pain and help people who were vulnerable.
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  #888  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

Your statement is unsupported by history. The treaty was being negotiated long before Diana became involved in landmines and would have been signed regardless. There were many articles and Television news stories about landmines before Diana got involved. The U.S. Congress held hearings about this issue long before Diana got involved.
Well, I have watched,supported and also donated for the anti-landmine cause for a long time so I may be able to share my view of this story-but of course, there is not ONE history but many different individual accounts of the history and people who watch and discuss it.

The Ottawa treaty was signed just a little time after the tragic accident with the Princess-of course the treaty and solutions for the landmine problem have been discussed and prepared for a long long time,just like everything in politics and history needs a lot of time to develop and gain more influence. Even before she joined the movement there were many great ppl who supported the cause and fought for the ban of landmines.I believe that this important thing was prepared by many caring and active people,but Diana gave it a face and a voice and her influence was the final drop of water that has made the glass run over with water,if you understand what I mean...

Just like that I may add that it makes a HUGE difference if we-Joe Averages and people of no importance to the world and the news-support a cause or weather the most-photographed woman of her time and also one of the most popular celebrities/royals does speak out for exactly the same cause...Even if we do the same work we will never have the same impact,this is a fact.

I do not really know why you constantly pick on my every word,but I am patient,maybe you just want to let off some steam so why not putting down a dead person like Diana or pick on somebody you do not even know, to feel better about yourself? I do not mind & I sincerely hope you are feeling better now because I know that a lot of people on TRF are quite frustrated and have a hard life-but let me reassure you that I do not take anything personally.
I just wish there were more constructive talks and less negativity about royals and a more balanced, relaxed approach to other people....sometimes I feel there is too much hate against the royals (especially against the young an pretty princesses!)-they have problems too and also wish to be accepted with all their faults and good traits

So I will give you two sources to read,to support my ideas and also to defend Diana´s legacy who was more than just a pretty face:

Biography of Princess Diana | Diana

"Diana is believed to have influenced the signing, though only after her death, of the Ottawa Treaty, which created an international ban on the use of anti-personnel landmines. Introducing the Second Reading of the Landmines Bill 1998 to the British House of Commons, the Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, paid tribute to Diana's work on landmines:

“ All Honourable Members will be aware from their postbags of the immense contribution made by Diana, Princess of Wales to bringing home to many of our constituents the human costs of landmines. The best way in which to record our appreciation of her work, and the work of NGOs that have campaigned against landmines, is to pass the Bill, and to pave the way towards a global ban on landmines.
—Robin Cook"

From Wikipedia an excerpt of the article about the Ottawa treaty:
The Ottawa Treaty was ardently championed by Diana, Princess of Wales. In January 1997, she visited Angola and walked near a minefield to dramatize its dangers.[42] In January 1997, Angola's population was approximately 10 million and had about 10–20 million land mines in place from its civil war.[43] In August 1997, she visited Bosnia with the Landmine Survivors Network. Her work with landmines focused on the injuries and deaths inflicted on children.

When the Second Reading of the Landmines Bill took place in 1998 in the British House of Commons, Foreign Secretary Robin Cook praised Diana and paid tribute to her work on landmines:
All honourable Members will be aware from their postbags of the immense contribution made by Diana, Princess of Wales, to bringing home to many of our constituents the human costs of landmines. The best way in which to record our appreciation of her work, and the work of NGOs that have campaigned against landmines, is to pass the Bill, and to pave the way towards a global ban on landmines.
(This is the same quote as above-but it shows that it is a widely shared opinion)
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  #889  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Well, I have watched,supported and also donated for the anti-landmine cause for a long time so I may be able to share my view of this story-but of course, there is not ONE history but many different individual accounts of the history and people who watch and discuss it.

The Ottawa treaty was signed just a little time after the tragic accident with the Princess-of course the treaty and solutions for the landmine problem have been discussed and prepared for a long long time,just like everything in politics and history needs a lot of time to develop and gain more influence. Even before she joined the movement there were many great ppl who supported the cause and fought for the ban of landmines.I believe that this important thing was prepared by many caring and active people,but Diana gave it a face and a voice and her influence was the final drop of water that has made the glass run over with water,if you understand what I mean...

Just like that I may add that it makes a HUGE difference if we-Joe Averages and people of no importance to the world and the news-support a cause or weather the most-photographed woman of her time and also one of the most popular celebrities/royals does speak out for exactly the same cause...Even if we do the same work we will never have the same impact,this is a fact.

I do not really know why you constantly pick on my every word,but I am patient,maybe you just want to let off some steam so why not putting down a dead person like Diana or pick on somebody you do not even know, to feel better about yourself? I do not mind & I sincerely hope you are feeling better now because I know that a lot of people on TRF are quite frustrated and have a hard life-but let me reassure you that I do not take anything personally.I just wish there was more more constructive talks and less picking on royals or other users

So I will give you two sources to read,to support my ideas and also to defend Diana´s legacy who was more than just a pretty face:

Biography of Princess Diana | Diana

"Diana is believed to have influenced the signing, though only after her death, of the Ottawa Treaty, which created an international ban on the use of anti-personnel landmines. Introducing the Second Reading of the Landmines Bill 1998 to the British House of Commons, the Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, paid tribute to Diana's work on landmines:

“ All Honourable Members will be aware from their postbags of the immense contribution made by Diana, Princess of Wales to bringing home to many of our constituents the human costs of landmines. The best way in which to record our appreciation of her work, and the work of NGOs that have campaigned against landmines, is to pass the Bill, and to pave the way towards a global ban on landmines.
—Robin Cook"

From Wikipedia an excerpt of the article about the Ottawa treaty:
The Ottawa Treaty was ardently championed by Diana, Princess of Wales. In January 1997, she visited Angola and walked near a minefield to dramatize its dangers.[42] In January 1997, Angola's population was approximately 10 million and had about 10–20 million land mines in place from its civil war.[43] In August 1997, she visited Bosnia with the Landmine Survivors Network. Her work with landmines focused on the injuries and deaths inflicted on children.

When the Second Reading of the Landmines Bill took place in 1998 in the British House of Commons, Foreign Secretary Robin Cook praised Diana and paid tribute to her work on landmines:
All honourable Members will be aware from their postbags of the immense contribution made by Diana, Princess of Wales, to bringing home to many of our constituents the human costs of landmines. The best way in which to record our appreciation of her work, and the work of NGOs that have campaigned against landmines, is to pass the Bill, and to pave the way towards a global ban on landmines.
(This is the same quote as above-but it shows that it is a widely shared opinion)
It's unfortunate that you feel that I picked on your every word so, if I did, it was unintentional. I am aware that many people on Wikipedia and many of Diana's fans think that Diana was the main reason the Ottawa treaty was signed. That doesn't make it a fact. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I admire many things about Princess Diana. She was a caring, gifted human being. As I said, she positively radiated compassion and sympathy in way few people can. William and Harry have her informal manner, but even they don't shine the way that Diana did when she was around people who were in pain.
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  #890  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
It's unfortunate that you feel that I picked on your every word so, if I did, it was unintentional. I am aware that many people on Wikipedia and many of Diana's fans think that Diana was the main reason the Ottawa treaty was signed. That doesn't make it a fact. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I admire many things about Princess Diana. She was a caring, gifted human being. As I said, she positively radiated compassion and sympathy in way few people can. William and Harry have her informal manner, but even they don't shine the way that Diana did when she was around people who were in pain.
Nobody will ever shine in the same way as Diana, because they are not Diana.But William will shine as William, Kate will shine as Kate, Sophie will shine as Sophie. And the word will be better off.
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  #891  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by roseroyal View Post
Nobody will ever shine in the same way as Diana, because they are not Diana.But William will shine as William, Kate will shine as Kate, Sophie will shine as Sophie. And the word will be better off.
Well said.
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  #892  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:50 PM
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Nobody will ever shine in the same way as Diana, because they are not Diana.But William will shine as William, Kate will shine as Kate, Sophie will shine as Sophie. And the word will be better off.

I do agree. Even so I am not a real big Of Diana there was some good things and she shined in her own way. Just as the Queen has shined her own way as the QUEEN, Mary shined in her own way and as well the Queen mother Shined in her own way. William will shine as William and same with Kate, Harry and his future wife, Sophia, etc.
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  #893  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:46 PM
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It will be interesting in the next 50 to 100 years what people will say about Diana. Many people are alive today that knew her and can tell stories about her. In the next 50 years there will still be a few but they will be up in age for the most part.

She will be the best known British royal I believe as the centuries go by. History may judge her differently than she is judged now. I sure those who are 4 or 5 generations out will probably have a much different perspective than those who knew her personally.

It's been nearly 16 years since her death. She is still talked about and probably will be 50 years and 100 years from now. Since her death, other royals have died, some well known, others not so well-known and they are not talked about that much. People express their sympathy to the family and that's pretty much it.
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  #894  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:55 PM
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It will be interesting in the next 50 to 100 years what people will say about Diana. Many people are alive today that knew her and can tell stories about her. In the next 50 years there will still be a few but they will be up in age for the most part.

She will be the best known British royal I believe as the centuries go by. History may judge her differently than she is judged now. I sure those who are 4 or 5 generations out will probably have a much different perspective than those who knew her personally.

It's been nearly 16 years since her death. She is still talked about and probably will be 50 years and 100 years from now. Since her death, other royals have died, some well known, others not so well-known and they are not talked about that much. People express their sympathy to the family and that's pretty much it.
I don't know about that. Obviously she will be remembered (after all her descendants will be William kids, grandkids, etc..) but I wouldn't say the best well known royal of all time. Not even more then Queen Victoria.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:58 PM
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If royalty forums is still on the internet 50 years from now (I think it will be) it will be interesting to see what is being said compared to today.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:07 PM
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I would have to say that Diana was probably the first modern royal or one of the first royals to reach out to others in a public way.. I think Diana interacted with the public more than you're average royal did when she came on the scene.

You had many royals in the 20th century who were well liked or beloved by commoners or average people but they didn't really reach out to others in the way Diana did. A lot of this had to do with upbringing or how things were years ago. I would call this beloved at a distance. Fifty years ago things were a lot more formal than they are today.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:13 PM
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first: of course a lor of members family do charity, diana doit in a very special moment, the AIDS for example, the diferrence is she was MASIVE and shewas CLOSE to the people, I respect a lot ELIZABETH II but I don0t see touching one person with lepra.

second: of course it's sad diana know her gandchildren, this one kate is expenting and the next (more william and catherine children and harry's childrens) but camilla in not the grandmother of the baby. WE DON'T KNOW HOW WILLIAM TEACH THE KID TO CALLED CAMILLA, may be simple camilla but i really dont think he teach the kid call her grandma for respect to his mother, and of course the kid will know diana for photos or storys, the baby will live where diana and the kids live! And this is sad but I realy don't think chalres never talk about diana, for hikm she never exist, it's sad but it's the true
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:20 PM
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first: of course a lor of members family do charity, diana doit in a very special moment, the AIDS for example, the diferrence is she was MASIVE and shewas CLOSE to the people, I respect a lot ELIZABETH II but I don0t see touching one person with lepra.

second: of course it's sad diana know her gandchildren, this one kate is expenting and the next (more william and catherine children and harry's childrens) but camilla in not the grandmother of the baby. WE DON'T KNOW HOW WILLIAM TEACH THE KID TO CALLED CAMILLA, may be simple camilla but i really dont think he teach the kid call her grandma for respect to his mother, and of course the kid will know diana for photos or storys, the baby will live where diana and the kids live! And this is sad but I realy don't think chalres never talk about diana, for hikm she never exist, it's sad but it's the true
Will it his ex-wife. I mean think about it how many mens talk about their ex-wife? We don't know whether or not Charles has talked to William and Harry talks out Diana. Let remember that there were good times also! It wasn't all a bad marriage. I could see Charles talking with Harry and William about a vacation or or something funny that happened one time at Christmas when they were young or something like that
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:23 PM
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diana always will be diana for herself, not for be the wife o charles or the mother of william and harry.
today for the princesses is more easy, we hace movil telephone with camara, intenet etc, when diana was knowfor the whole wolrl this things don't exist
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:24 PM
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I remember the POW saying in his first public speech after Diana's death, and I'm paraphrasing here-" It was a great loss for the boys, and I will always share in that loss."
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