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  #761  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:37 AM
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I can't help wondering, if from the start Diana had believed she had the kind of support from Charles that he so obviously affords Camilla, would she have needed the adoration of camara and crowd. In fairness, both are drawn to pretty Princesses and it wasn't Diana's fault that she was one or that she was bounced into the public domain after an engagement of barely four months and a "courtship" of not much longer. Both Camilla and Katherine have been eased into public view over several years, partly, I suspect, because of Diana's experience and partly because their husbands are protective enough of them to say if necessary "leave us alone" and mean it. It also speaks of a unitedness which failed to exist between Charles and Diana, who at not yet 21, had been whisked out of obscurity to become girlfriend, fiancee, wife of The Prince of Wales, mother-to-be of his child and expected to do the full round of public duties ALL inside a year. I don't want to labour the point, but by comparison, I think Camilla and Katherine have both had an easier ride and if lessons have been learned a great legacy has been bestowed.
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  #762  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:50 AM
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Hear, hear Tsaritsa.
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  #763  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:55 AM
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Good to know you see it the way I do, Olebabs.
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  #764  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:55 PM
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I think that the need for adoration from the public came later on, as her marriage broke down. One writer--I can't remember who--has made the case that the camera represented her father's love. Johnnie Spencer showed his love to his children by photographing them, and the early pictures of Diana seem to reflect this.


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I can't help wondering, if from the start Diana had believed she had the kind of support from Charles that he so obviously affords Camilla, would she have needed the adoration of camara and crowd.
Yes, I believe that this is true. I think that the older generation of noble women who married into the BRF--such as Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and Lady Alice Montague-Douglas-Scott had a much greater degree of privacy while getting used to the limelight and were treated with more deference by the media. Although the media was fawning to the young Lady Diana and then the New Princess of Wales, it was also overwhelming due to the tabloid wars of the time and the 24-hour news cycle that was coming into play.

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A part of her legacy could then be considered as the importance of introducing new members in a more thourough way, than she herself was.
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  #765  
Old 06-20-2011, 03:16 PM
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Good to know you see it the way I do, Olebabs.
I would join you both. Just one small correction. it's Catherine, not Katherine

I've seen some time ago a interview with Tina Brown, and there was one question about Diana's legacy. She put it like so many here, perhaps her biggest legacy was that her son was left to choose someone he loved, regardless of the social position.
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  #766  
Old 06-21-2011, 11:14 PM
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I think I now have goosebumps, I never thought of that, but of course!
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  #767  
Old 06-21-2011, 11:21 PM
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Yes, I believe that this is true. I think that the older generation of noble women who married into the BRF--such as Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and Lady Alice Montague-Douglas-Scott had a much greater degree of privacy while getting used to the limelight and were treated with more deference by the media. Although the media was fawning to the young Lady Diana and then the New Princess of Wales, it was also overwhelming due to the tabloid wars of the time and the 24-hour news cycle that was coming into play.
Of course in the 1920s there wasn't the media coverage anyway but in addition both Lady Elizabeth and Lady Alice married younger sons not the heir. I wonder if they would have been given the same degree of leeway if they had married the Prince of Wales.
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  #768  
Old 06-23-2011, 02:51 AM
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I think that there would have been much more coverage of any woman who married The Prince of Wales/Edward VIII, but as long as she was the "right type"--i.e. an aristocrat or a princess who wasn't associated with scandals--I don't think that the press would have given her a hard time.

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Of course in the 1920s there wasn't the media coverage anyway but in addition both Lady Elizabeth and Lady Alice married younger sons not the heir. I wonder if they would have been given the same degree of leeway if they had married the Prince of Wales.
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  #769  
Old 06-23-2011, 06:33 AM
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Reading through this very long thread, it occured to me, how damaging an effect a childhood can have on a person. I you have no sensce of self worth, how can one ever learn to trust others. To think that people, she misguidedly opened her heart to, betrayed her after she died, well it is just plain wrong. I really hope she has found peace whereever she is.
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  #770  
Old 06-23-2011, 02:46 PM
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So true. Had Diana had a stable, loving home life, she might have never thought of marrying Prince Charles; or she might have still married him and still be The Princess of Wales today. It's all a tragedy.


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Reading through this very long thread, it occured to me, how damaging an effect a childhood can have on a person.
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  #771  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:08 PM
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Reading through this very long thread, it occured to me, how damaging an effect a childhood can have on a person. I you have no sensce of self worth, how can one ever learn to trust others. To think that people, she misguidedly opened her heart to, betrayed her after she died, well it is just plain wrong. I really hope she has found peace whereever she is.
Well the two people the Princess of Wales trusted the most still haven't betrayed her, and they are her sons.
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  #772  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:16 PM
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True Sirhon11234. If she has done nothing else right, she certainly helped those to along just fine
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  #773  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:18 PM
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So true. Had Diana had a stable, loving home life, she might have never thought of marrying Prince Charles; or she might have still married him and still be The Princess of Wales today. It's all a tragedy.
I agree with you completely. I realise Paul Burrell is not the most trustworthy source but I remember in his book he has the Princess saying that it was her lack of self-worth from her childhood on that had caused her marriage to go the way it did. She claimed that she had looked to Prince Charles for recognition and attention in order to boost her ego and when that kind of attention was not forthcoming, she felt rejected. If she had been older, she would have likely realised that self-esteem must come from a good relationship with yourself, or in other words, you have to love yourself before you can accept love from others.

According to Burrell, one of her favourite quotes was, "High self-esteem does not protect you, but it does allow you to entertain self-doubt without being devastated".
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  #774  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:23 PM
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A very true quote. Just so very sad that no one seemed to pick up on that, and helped her. On the other hand Í think that she and Charles was very much in the same position and therefore they could not help each other
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  #775  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:40 PM
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A very true quote. Just so very sad that no one seemed to pick up on that, and helped her. On the other hand Í think that she and Charles was very much in the same position and therefore they could not help each other
I think you hit the nail on the head, olebabs. In most successful marriages, one partner does more giving and the other more taking; the positions of giver and taker switch back and forth according to what life brings along around the couple. Neither Charles nor Diana had enough to give and both needed emotional propping up. It's no wonder the marriage went downhill so quickly.

I also think it's a shame that no one seemed able to help Diana, but (and this is strictly my own opinion) I don't think the Princess was an easy person to help, either. By her own words in the Morton book, she dismisses all the psychotherapists, psychologists and other help the BRF brought in to aid her in the transition to Princess of Wales when she started to falter. She claimed she only needed "time". I wonder how much of that denial on her part was due to the "shame" and "secrecy" that sufferers of bulimia feel about themselves and their eating disorder....
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  #776  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:53 PM
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Thank you Aliza. It is extremely difficult to help a person, who will not accept it.

From they way he reacted to her death, it seems to me that they had put the past behind them and found some sort of friendship. That is also a good legacy to leave behind. Forgiveness.
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  #777  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:15 PM
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Referring to the post by Aliza-I feel as if I am going to get into hot water by saying this, but here is my opinion....
I believe that the majority of what Diana said in the Morton book was slanted truth by her, at the time in order to make Charles look bad.
I think that she must have realized and regretted this later.
Who knows what she would say if she were here now, and could reflect on that time in her life now? Perceptions of events in your life change the further away from them you are, and you have more maturity.
So I don't think we can read the Morton book as literal truth.
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  #778  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:21 PM
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I think you are correct, Roseroyal. We tend to do strange things when we are hurting, that we otherwise never would have.
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  #779  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:28 PM
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I agree with you, actually!
With the exception of parts that are not aimed at making Charles look bad and indeed make Diana look bad as in the subject I posted above. Diana refusing help for her traumatic transition to Princess of Wales after Charles and the rest of the BRF provided counsellors, psychoanalysts, psychologists, and more (!) makes Diana look bad, in my opinion, and does not slur Charles in any way. Much of what I posted is mentioned in Dimbleby's book that was the riposte to Morton, as well.

I agree wholeheartedly that Diana would have penned quite a different story in 1997 than she did in 1992. I do think her motive with the Morton book was to tell a very biased version of her side of the story. I also believe she came to regret co-operating with Morton, in the same way as she regretted doing Panorama. She acknowledged that she "lead from the heart", well, IMHO there were some occasions where her mind would have carried her to safer places than those where her heart sometimes lead her, particularly where Charles was concerned.

It is wonderful, though how Charles and Diana had come to be friends in the last year of her life. It gives them both great credit to have the ability to forgive each other for so many wounding blows.
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  #780  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:44 PM
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But then we are back to the fact, that had she had a more close relationship with her mother, Mrs. Shand-Kydd might have been able to advice her to continue the the therapy ang guided her through this difficult transistion. Look at the current CPss, they have had a thourough introduction and it still seems to be overwelming at times. All of them were a good 10 years older, when they entered the scene, so no wonder a 19 yo girl would find it daunting.
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