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  #701  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:16 PM
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I am simply AMAZED that you got all of that of my post that IMO had no negative comments about Diana or spoke ill of the dead.

But whatever.
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  #702  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:30 PM
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NotHRH, I'm re-reading Zonk post and also can't see any of that judgement you are seeing. There is a clear misunderstanding here.
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  #703  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:19 PM
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Zonk is always very even dispositioned. ;-P . There are others here who have been scathing of the late Princess, but not Zonk...
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  #704  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mia_mae
NotHRH, I'm re-reading Zonk post and also can't see any of that judgement you are seeing. There is a clear misunderstanding here.
I have to add my 2 cents and agreement.....
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  #705  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:32 PM
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I have to add my 2 cents and agreement.....
Make that four cents, now. My two have gone to agreement along with yours. I saw nothing in that post that put down either the late Princess or the person posting. I've had my issues, as new as I am, with other administrators here - but never with Zonk.
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  #706  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:39 PM
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While I thank everyone for their support, let's get back on topic.

Needless to say, I don't please everyone all the time, and this thread doesn't need to be about Zonk, but rather Diana, Princess of Wales and HER legacy.
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  #707  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:44 PM
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*Bats eyelashes at Zonk*
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  #708  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:25 PM
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Diana left two boys after she died, now young men after her own heart. They are dedicated to their charities and those Diana had herself. They are her living legacy.

Her historical legacy is as the most famous Princess of Wales of modern times, a style icon of the late 20th century, and a maverick royal who pushed aside protocol to touch people deeply and profoundly the wold over in a way that has not been equalled since.

Within the British royal family she left painful memories of a failed marriage to the heir, damage to the integrity of the crown through both of their affairs and... the repository of all the hopes of this ancient institution in the form of her son, William.

To many of us she is a saint/goddess in all but name; the woman who touched something in so many of us as the princess who cared and who could do no wrong. She is now forever young and at rest from the traumas of her life, an angel among the saints in heaven and a saint among the angels. No one can replace her or rob her of her legacy as the People's Princess in our collective conscience.

She lives in her boys and in our hearts.
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  #709  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pgm1952 View Post
Diana left two boys after she died, now young men after her own heart. They are dedicated to their charities and those Diana had herself. They are her living legacy.
True.

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Her historical legacy is as the most famous Princess of Wales of modern times, a style icon of the late 20th century, and a maverick royal who pushed aside protocol to touch people deeply and profoundly the wold over in a way that has not been equalled since.
As there hadn't been a Princess of Walese since 1910 it wasn't hard to be the 'most famous Princess of Wales of modern times' - she was the only one in modern times.

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Within the British royal family she left painful memories of a failed marriage to the heir, damage to the integrity of the crown through both of their affairs and... the repository of all the hopes of this ancient institution in the form of her son, William.
'Their' son - William had two parents and Charles has had as big an influence on his son as his dead mother - particularly as it has been Charles that has been there for the last 14 years of his life - nearly half of William's life has already passed without her in it directly - sure give her credit but not at the expense of ignoring Charles.

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To many of us she is a saint/goddess in all but name; the woman who touched something in so many of us as the princess who cared and who could do no wrong. She is now forever young and at rest from the traumas of her life, an angel among the saints in heaven and a saint among the angels. No one can replace her or rob her of her legacy as the People's Princess in our collective conscience.
I don't think that liars and adulterers can be counted as saints or angels. Nor can they be described as someone 'who could do no wrong' unless you regard lying, manipulation of others and multiple adulterers as acceptable behaviour and as not doing wrong. You might of course - and from your statement I will assume that you do - but I most certainly do not.

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She lives in her boys and in our hearts.
She can live in your heart but my heart belongs to the people I know and love not to a stranger who tried to destroy and institution I was raised to love but now - thanks largely to her and her supporters and the actions of her sons - have come to regard as wasteful and irrelevant - so her legacy for me is to help make me a republican so that I don't have her son as my future King.
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  #710  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:04 AM
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Charles is not being ignored, this thread is about Diana, so her/his post was normally directed to her role as William and Harry parent.

Also, as I've said before, to put the whole blame on Diana is absolutely ridiculous, a marriage is about TWO people, besides the Princess, Prince Charles is, as his wife, accountable for the problems in the relationship.
We may have move on, but let's not be blind about the reality.
No Diana was not a Saint, hey QEII is not, no one is. But the Royal Family played the part when Diana was young and the perfect bride, and didn't discouraged the press with the perfect couple portrait that they weren't. Public have lost respect after the whole press parade of the Wales, but that happened on both ends.
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  #711  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:22 AM
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In the spirit of going back on topic…I’ll give my perspective.

I’m part of the generation who were rather young when Diana lived and died, so I really only learned about her through other people. My mother was one who got up early and put on a tiara to watch the Royal Wedding in 1981, and who years later met her friend to have a cry over Diana’s funeral in 1997. So I grew up fully aware who “Princess Diana” was: a beautiful princess who was cheated on in life, yet still managed to forever change the British Monarchy. Last summer even, when I started getting into royalty, I got a couple post-funeral magazines about Diana, and they completely affirmed by beliefs.

However, over the past few months I’ve learned a lot about Diana, Princess of Wales (especially through this wonderful forum), and my feelings of admiration have altered quite a bit. But still, I think to the general population, who watched her enter the scene, make a splash, and exit on harsh terms, her legacy will be one people remember in an overall positive way . (Of course, I really cannot speak for that group as I am not part of it!) Nowadays, I would say Diana’s legacy is greatly being carried on through her photographs. She was a very photogenic woman, so it makes sense that on photo blogs like tumblr (where there are a great deal of teenagers and twenty-somethings), pictures of her are extremely popular and generally well-regarded. As such, I would say Diana and her legacy are being revered (and kept current) in that way.

Personally, I think, like most everything in this world, it all boils down to the interpretation of how much you know, and what is important to each individual person. I was talking to a friend of mine last week, and she told me she was really into “Candle in the Wind.” We were speaking about Diana, and I rather sheepishly remarked how I didn’t understand the hype around her and to a degree, actually disliked her. My friend, the most sensible I have, looked at me and said, “Well, just don’t say that too loud. There are a lot of people in this world who really like her.” I just shrugged my shoulders in response.
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  #712  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:40 AM
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As I believe that the sincerity one brings to their life is reflected back through the legacy of their deeds, I can sum up my perception of Diana's legacy, at best, with a half full/half empty comment.

On the one hand, her work with AIDS and leprosy patients and, later, with land mines, represents the half full. Without any other context, without any other knowledge of her or her deeds, these acts must be respected, on their face, as providing a positive overall benefit.

On the other hand, what knowledge I do have of her personality and personal life (and considering the source of this "knowledge" is never first hand or personal and only as reported or, in a few cases, as she put forth) leads me to consider her legacy as half-empty. In some instances, I wonder whether or not any of her acts were selfless or whether they were part of a larger strategy of "domination" (for lack of a better word that won't lead to a treatise on personality and politics).

I think I had kept an open mind about her until I saw the Panorama interview. I remember flicking the television from live to record and walking away in disgust. I'm about the same age as Diana (born early 1962) would have been and was, therefore, around her age when I saw the interview. She was a woman putting on a performance and it sickened and revolted me and actually made me angry. She appeared to be trying to usurp the monarchy - or at least Charles - and I wondered at what point the poor woman began to believe her own press and took leave of her rational senses. She was, for all the world and on the world stage, a scorned woman getting hers back. Ugh. Whatever sympathy she might have garnered from me for her "lamb to the slaughter" rhetoric was slammed into rocks and covered with the sludge of what came next. I remember the predominant feeling was that I was sorry for her sons and deeply embarrassed for the Queen and the Prince of Wales.

What followed, with Dodi Al Fayad and the crash in Paris was, sadly, the stuff written on the subway walls, so to speak. Not that I believe anyone deserves death (or an inquest into their life after their death) but if it had not been a Paris tunnel, it would have been something else - she was a woman seemingly bent on self destruction. Her choice in lovers says a lot about her and her inability to understand her role - its limitations, its benefits and its provenance. The fact that she thought a divorce, while still the mother of the future king, would give her back privacy or take away her obligations to a certain level of behavior says more about her. It's a little like Garbo wanting to be left alone. Well. Greta, you ought not have made a spectacle of yourself in the first place.

The rest of us have to sleep in the beds we've made ... and Diana, Princess of Wales was no exception and, in fact, had a greater obligation to that metaphoric bed.

I think, overall, her legacy is a cautionary tale.
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  #713  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:14 PM
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Yes, she was. But if William decides otherwise, who are we to question the motivations of a son?

It was stated that William said that he would undertake the reinstatement when he became monarch, but whether or not he said this when she was alive, I can not recall.

It would be interesting to see if he does in any case.
I am ambivalent, but would say that her HRH was revoked for cause as were all other former HRHs. Any overly sentimental person would like the idea of reinstatement.

******************************

As for the young Wills assuring his mother that he would get her back the HRH when he was king just makes me cringe. Diana must have overburdened her two boys with her disappointments; now that's a shame.
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  #714  
Old 06-17-2011, 01:16 PM
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Diana is still in many people's hearts and minds.

Her legacy will be with all those who loved her, and love her still.
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  #715  
Old 06-17-2011, 05:15 PM
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Agreed. As the saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for..."


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I think, overall, her legacy is a cautionary tale.
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  #716  
Old 06-17-2011, 07:47 PM
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A cautionary tale, yes. But a tale that seems to have worked out. Because of what happened in Britain, every royal house in the rest of Europe has accepted as a give in, that the heir to throne is allowed to marry for love and as a direct result, the press intrusion into the lives of the crownprincely couples is being managed much better.

Some people think she damaged the monarchy, but I don't think so. She definately rocked the boat, and I'm not trying to start the discussion of her actions again, but things has changed for the better. Just look at PoW and DoC.

Her legacy will always be the complexity of her short life. I just hope she has found peace.
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  #717  
Old 06-17-2011, 08:29 PM
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Diana's cautionary tale, is never marry a man who is married to someone else in his heart. Never marry a man who will envy any of your accomplishments. Never marry into a family that has no innovative thought, until it is screamed for. Never marry into a family that sees itself better than you.
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  #718  
Old 06-17-2011, 09:13 PM
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...Some people think she damaged the monarchy, but I don't think so.
The fact that there are many in Britain and elsewhere, including people here, who regularly call for the succession rules to be put aside shows just how damaging her legacy is - to promote the popularity of the moment or even the individual over the institution itself is damaging to the institution and she put that on the agenda.

The very fact that people here and elsewhere want William to take his father's place shows how much she damaged the perception of the family relationship as well. William has two parents but most people seem to forget that - I even read comments in the lead up to the wedding asking why Charles should be having anything to do with it? That is also a large part of Diana's legacy - she set out to destroy her husband and even from the grave her supporters are still trying to bring about her desire - too bad if that desire might hurt and upset the sons she had with Charles.
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  #719  
Old 06-17-2011, 09:22 PM
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I think Diana's legacy is as complex as her life was. I do wonder how she would have adjusted to getting older. I think as much as she sometimes disliked the media attention and lack of privacy in her life a big part of her enjoyed the certain type of public adoration that only the young and glamourous can attract. The sort of behavior that seems charming and fascinating in someone in their twenties or even their thirties can look very different on someone a decade or two older. I think it would have been interesting to see what Diana would have done when she was no longer the most famous and photographed woman in the world. Would she have adjusted gracefully? I like to think she would have allowed her many good, deeper qualities to come more to the forefront - her devotion to her charities, her genuine compassion for those in need, and so on.

I also wonder how this change would have played out within the family, especially once William got married. I go between thinking she would have been mature enough at this point to act as a decent support system for her daughter in law(s) and thinking she would have been hell on wheels to deal with.
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  #720  
Old 06-17-2011, 09:25 PM
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Her husband destroyed himself. He was part and parcel of the big comedown. Philandering seemed to be an acceptable pastime for royals, (males), Diana turned a spotlight on it. Of course, she sullied it with her affairs to get even. As, for us Americans, we put down the idea of an "institution" over an individual with George III. There is nothing sacred about the institution if it didn't grow and change with the needs of the people. Charles critcized his parents for "lousy parenting". No warmth. Well, he was the same. Only afterward, he showed warmth and affection to his sons. I don't think he learned that from his mother. And that is too bad.
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