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  #321  
Old 05-22-2009, 04:30 PM
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All the craziness about Diana--the conspiracy theories, the War of the Walses, the Morton book, the Panorama Interview, the brief sainthood after her death, and the public obssession with every aspect of her life--says something about what she meant to the people of her time and the things that appealed to us and drove us. That will be important to historians, I believe. Regardless of what a person thinks of Diana, no one can deny that she was a pop culture phenomenon.
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  #322  
Old 05-22-2009, 05:46 PM
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I know I sorta said the same thing in my previous post but I think the problem lately(when I say lately I mean the past few years) maybe it's just the media here where I live I can't comment about everywhere else is that I feel that since the inquest alot of the news reports have been focusing way too much on the bad and not enough on the good. If there was a balance then I'd be a happy with it. I wish people would stop for a bit and remember the good she did do, that's why I brought up my comment originally not to try and say oh let's forget about all the bad she did no of course not that's not right, nor do I think that would be a fair representation. Anyways that's my last little comment about all this well for now atleast. And Mermaid I totally agree with your comment above.
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  #323  
Old 05-23-2009, 02:14 AM
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I agree with that. Sleaze sells.
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  #324  
Old 05-23-2009, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
. . . . . . maybe it's just the media here where I live I can't comment about everywhere else is that I feel that since the inquest alot of the news reports have been focusing way too much on the bad and not enough on the good. If there was a balance then I'd be a happy with it . . . . . . . . .
Therein lies the problem! Since the Death of Diana any negative press was pounced on as disrespectful, untrue and hurtful to her sons. Come the Inquest, anyone who cared to follow the case could, and, for the first time people heard really disturbing things about what sort of human being she really was behind the facade she presented to the world.

Balance her affairs and the breakup of the Carling marriage against her stated high moral ground. It didn't, any more than the obsessive phone calls to other mens wives. Her "symbolic" act of holding the hands of an AIDS patient 20 years ago doesn't absolve her from her own indiscretions years later.

We live in an instant world and Diana died way back when but that wouldn't change the way people thought of her with 20/20 hindsight. We all lost a lot of innocence in the Inquest and the discovery that many of Diana's publicity leaked private visits to hospital were merely a ruse to hide her latest love affair kind of took the gilt off the gingerbread. We felt she had deceived us and willfully misled us and so now we look back with jaundiced eyes,

In a few years from now the pendulum will have stopped it's wild swinging and we will probably view the past in a more realistic way.
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  #325  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:51 AM
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Well, like you just said MARG, time has that great asset to balance the general opinion.
I think it's pretty clear that in History, time has shown its benefits. JFK for example, was an icon at the time of his death but after a few years, we also learned how the "perfect American family" was in fact corroded by his many affairs. Of course, this should never dismiss or damage anything he has done for his country and his people. Because someone committed faults in private (for which we haven't really got the right to judge) doesn't have remove the value of his work. There are two very different things and they don't need to neutralize each other to obtain an objective view on things. You can't see someone all white or all black but you can't dismiss one part of someone's life because the other doesn't fit your criteria or moral standards.
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  #326  
Old 05-23-2009, 11:17 AM
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And once again TheTruth you have spoken the truth.
The inquest has certainly not changed my opinion of the late Princess of Wales.
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  #327  
Old 05-23-2009, 04:51 PM
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I think it's important to remember Diana defintely- people say move on, but some things about the past are forever unique, and Diana was certainly unique. Diana was controversial in her lifetime and also after it as well. The inquest didn't change my opinion of her- different people who knew her in person had different opinions, and we'd no doubt have actually had a different opinion than someone else had we known her in person. Everyone has different views of Diana's legacy, which is as it should be.
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  #328  
Old 05-23-2009, 05:49 PM
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I think better comparisons might even be made with Jacqueline Onassis and Princess Grace. Since their deaths some unsavory revelations have been made, but in general their reputations have fared well.
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  #329  
Old 05-23-2009, 08:55 PM
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That's true. I'm not familiar with what was said about Jackie after her death, although I know her husband's affairs came more into the light, but Princess Grace was revealed to have had affairs before her marriage, and according to some, after. I think people had more of an idea of the negative stuff about Diana during her lifetime than they did with either Jackie or Grace.
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  #330  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:02 PM
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I think it's important to remember Diana defintely- people say move on, but some things about the past are forever unique, and Diana was certainly unique. Diana was controversial in her lifetime and also after it as well. The inquest didn't change my opinion of her- different people who knew her in person had different opinions, and we'd no doubt have actually had a different opinion than someone else had we known her in person. Everyone has different views of Diana's legacy, which is as it should be.
Your spot on with that comment actually, for example Rosa would have seen Diana in a much different light then the public saw Diana. She saw her in her good times and in her bad since they were good friends for quite some time, while to us we had only seen her in public face, which I tend to believe for the most part was very positive(I'm too young to remember Diana in the early years I only member the last 2 or 3 years of her life) so to us when we heard all the things that she had done or said from the inquest we found it shocking. That's why everyone sees her differently even to this day I believe.
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  #331  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:10 PM
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I don't remember the early years of Diana either, although I knew who she was and liked to look at picture books about her even in the late '80s at when I was three. I first became a big fan in 1995. From what I've read subsequently, it seems there was awareness of the negative sides of Diana in her lifetime- at least by her detractors and the tabloid press. For instance, the things about her and Olive Hoare and the phone calls she made him. But such things were unconfirmed rumor more than they were after her death when we found out more about her.
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  #332  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:14 PM
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I think from all I've read it seems around the mid 80's more of the bad things started to come out, I think really early on there was an odd bad article here and there but overall it seemed positive. Back then though those rumors were dismissed as just that rumors although now we know about the torment going on in her head at the time.I still don't believe she had affairs with all the alleged men that have been named don't ask me why I just can't see it but then again I could be totally totally wrong.
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  #333  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:24 PM
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Yes, early on everybody thought the Diana and Charles marriage was a fairytale and certainly they both got less bad press. Rumors of Diana first having an eating disorder began to circulate in the fall of 1983 when she was photographed in that blue dress looking so thin, and then rumors of trouble in the marriage of Diana and Charles first appeared in 1985 or so. Diana certainly also publicly admitted negative things about herself, for instance that she had in fact committed adultery. I tend to believe the Oliver Hoare phone calls thing and that she did have an affair with him, and she admitted to the affair with Hewitt, and Hasnat Khan she loved very much.. but Will Carling, Barry Mannakee etc, I am less sure of. Of course, there was the call to James Gilbey that was recorded and that was really bad publicity for her. But you are right, some of the things known only as rumors in her lifetime have since been confirmed as fact.
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  #334  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:30 PM
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Ya your right I don't really believe Burrell's thing about her having 9 suitors I can see it more as really close guy friends then affairs, We know about Dodi, Hasnat, Hewitt I'm a little sketchy about Hoare but there's no other way to explain the phone calls though I don't beleive the rest unless we get more information in the future. I still don't get where the rumor of an affair with Kevin Costner came from except the whole thing about the bodyguard but I still don't see how they can connect the two of them. See the thing with me is the whole manipulation and dropping her friends and all that she did I don't see it as being that bad when you stop and think how insane her life was at the time I'm certain she wasn't even thinking straight.
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  #335  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:32 PM
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She was neither good, nor bad. She was a person who lived and died in a short space, to most lives. She married wrong, she wanted love, she got protocol and a husband who had a "true" love. It was sad for both. She did good things and foolish things. In the end she is loved by many and reviled by some. Her children have very loving menories, but I am sure not all the memories are good. She pulled the golden ring and found that it was not gold, but tarnished.
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  #336  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:37 PM
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ghost night554, I agree I don't think she had nine suitors either. Dodi, Hasnat, Hewitt, and Hoare are defintely true, although I think of all of them she loved Hasnat the most, and he honored her memory quite well. I do think her life was sad in some ways, but her legacy is positive. She never found true love that lasted with any man, but the world loved her and still does. She did want to be Queen of People's hearts as she said.
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  #337  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:00 AM
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For sure I'm so happy with how Hasnat has honored her memory, I also agree I think her legacy when you really stop and think about it is very positive in many different ways. I kinda think and lemme word this carefully if you take away the aspects of her private life not ignore it but just for a second remove it from the equation , Diana did alot of good public work, was some of it staged maybe to some extent but every member of the royal family has to perform.
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  #338  
Old 05-24-2009, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
JFK for example, was an icon at the time of his death but after a few years, we also learned how the "perfect American family" was in fact corroded by his many affairs. Of course, this should never dismiss or damage anything he has done for his country and his people. Because someone committed faults in private (for which we haven't really got the right to judge) doesn't have remove the value of his work. There are two very different things and they don't need to neutralize each other to obtain an objective view on things. You can't see someone all white or all black but you can't dismiss one part of someone's life because the other doesn't fit your criteria or moral standards.
Although I agree with the principle you are trying to make there can be no no comparasion between the "private life revealed after death" of JFK and Diana's very public indiscretions (Panorama etc.) during her lifetime.

It is not a question of not fitting my criteria or moral standards, rather a total rejection of the cult of "Everything is somebody elses fault".
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  #339  
Old 05-24-2009, 09:34 AM
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I believe the comparisons of the late Princess with the private behaviour of President Kennedy, his widow's actions after his death and the alleged indiscretions of Princess Grace are flawed because they are not comparing like with like.

Where Diana did herself no favours was in attacking the very institution that made her what she was and gave her the very platform on which she sought her revenge, or payback, or whatever term is used. President Kennedy, Mrs Onassis and Princess Grace didn't seek to damage their partner's public reputation or their children's birthright by questioning the fitness of the estranged partner and indirectly the entire family.

Diana went even further than this by placing herself above the institution in the course of her marital battles. So for me it's not a moral issue of who slept with who or of how many men she may or may not have bedded, or the undoubted worthiness and sincerity of her good works. It is the damage she directly and indirectly caused to the public standing of the Monarchy and therefore to her son's destiny and to the Queen herself. That was the ultimate disloyalty and I believe the main reason her legacy is somewhat ambivalent.
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  #340  
Old 05-24-2009, 10:46 AM
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I think one of the saddest legacies she has left is the perpetual cloud over the issue of Prince Harry's parentage. I don't think we will ever begin to understand the anguish he has gone through curtesy of Diana's indiscreet revelations.

While we all like to think that he is undoubtedly a prince by birth, and I believe that one way or another the family "know", should anything happen to William (Heaven forfend) you can't tell me that Parliament and even the mainstream press media would not be demanding some "Proof" that he is indeed a "Wales" and 2nd in line to the throne.
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