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  #261  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
A few previous posts all claimed that Diana, Princess of Wales' walk in a clear mine field and that it was easy. I will disagree with all of you because no clear mine field is 100% sure that it is totally free of land mines. So there was a chance that she took for her documentary and the landmine cause.

Also the summer of her death she did vacation a lot, but doesn't all of Europe vacation for a month in August?. I don't think to Diana fans interest in her was diminished.
I think we can be certain that the minefield had been cleared, thoroughly for the photo op. The men who clear the land of such things would have made doubly sure of that and yes once they have worked a particular area, it is clear. How many cases of people being caught by a mine, in a cleared area, have you ever heard of? The press were certainly turning against her and I am afraid, the fickle public.

I can't say I have ever heard of Britain taking the whole of August as a holiday, even now. Schools close for some of July and August, companies on the whole do not!
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It is pretty difficult to act like a caring person for a sustained period of time, particularly when you're battling your own issues. ----- Changing the way the media and the public perceived people with HIV/AIDS was an achievement that shouldn't be forgotten
It is easy I would imagine to continue an illusion for the hours needed for each appearance. She brought publicity to the HIV cause which helped but sadly many people still treated sufferers as pariahs, some still do.

As sirhon said, she tried to be a good mother!
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  #262  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:07 PM
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It is easy I would imagine to continue an illusion for the hours needed for each appearance.
Not when one is around deathly ill people.
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  #263  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:10 PM
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I'm' sure that she knew charity work improved her image, but it seems to have been geniuine, in that she was that way in childhood, and before she was ever royalty or a well known public figure. She had the knack of relating to people in general, and that defintely helps in charity work. She was photographed yes, but she does seem to have been interested too in charity work itself, which is a traditional royal duty, but which she did more with than most royals. Jephson was critical of her in other ways, wasn't he? I remember his book being more critical than not, or perhaps just realistic. I believe what he said about her charity work as the Bradford book says because his book didn't romanticize Diana.
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  #264  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:10 PM
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Not when one is around deathly ill people.
On that we will have to agree to disagree.
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  #265  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:15 PM
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Having had a job where I had to act, it is very difficult... and some people suck the life right out of you (I call those "emotional vampires").

I would agree with sirhon and skydragon... if you have children, they should be your priority, and I think these young men were. Was she an ideal parent? Probably not, but I bet few of us would say any of our parents were ideal.

In regards to her last summer, I'm sure she would have made some different choices had she known the end was coming. But who could have expected things to go so wrong (I sort of figured the Dodi relationship would end badly, but didn't expect death for Diana)?
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  #266  
Old 05-05-2009, 08:00 PM
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Yes, nobody expected what did happen- it was basically collective shock at her death. I'm sure that we would view the last part of Diana's life differently had she lived since we can't put her last summer in any sort of context, at all, except that of her past, and that context is limited, because she had just gotten divorced in 1996, and clearly was moving onto a new stage of her life.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:07 PM
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Diana's legacy

In my own case, Diana's legacy is shelves and shelves of photo-books, biographies, and magazines. Even with all we know now about her private live, I still find it fascinating to look at pictures of her and find the rare untold story about her dealings with ordinary people.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:58 PM
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Yes, she does leave quite a legacy in print, and in pictures. She was a natural both in fashion photos and also when she was photographed with ordinary people when she was doing charity work and otherwise. I've read every book ever published about her I think, except one or two.
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  #269  
Old 05-06-2009, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by iowabelle View Post
Having had a job where I had to act, it is very difficult... and some people suck the life right out of you (I call those "emotional vampires").
A dear friend was an oncologist and she always seemed to be able to present a cheery face, even after hours on duty. She did this, day in day out for years. Even when she was diagnosed with cancer herself, after the shock, she continued her work for some time. She felt it was her duty for the sake of her patients and their families. I am not trying to belittle Diana's actions, but this, IMO, is real caring unlike a short orchestrated visit.
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  #270  
Old 05-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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Your story reminds me of our former family doctor. He was diagnosed with ALS during his fifties. Even when he was too ill to do his rounds or go into the office, he'd meet with medical students in his home.

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A dear friend was an oncologist and she always seemed to be able to present a cheery face, even after hours on duty. She did this, day in day out for years. Even when she was diagnosed with cancer herself, after the shock, she continued her work for some time. She felt it was her duty for the sake of her patients and their families. I am not trying to belittle Diana's actions, but this, IMO, is real caring unlike a short orchestrated visit.
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  #271  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:25 PM
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hi, i'm new here. interesting discussion. no one can ever say for certain whether or not someone is genuine when they put on a display of caring and charity as one would have to be psychic and see inside the person's heart to say for sure. in the end it seems the people who liked diana are willing to believe it was genuine while those who disliked her are adamant that it was all a show for publicity.


my personal opinion is that diana was genuine in her charity work. the landmine campaign attracted severe criticism from members of parliament. if she was only doing it for the publicity, why wouldn't she quit then with all the hassle she was getting? after all, there are other more pleasurable ways of getting attention, so why put up with the attacks? but she kept on, so i'd say that chose to weather the controversy and not drop the campaign because she genuinely cared for landmine victims.


i heartily disagree with Incas for saying that it was poor judgement and disingeneous for diana to join the campaign and then profess political ignorance. she approached the issue from a humanitarian point of view: people were having their limbs blown to bits and this was deplorable and had to stop. end of. there was nothing self-serving about her documentary; it highlighted the landmine victims' plight.


if diana was a fake in her charity work, then can someone explain why she would go visit patients in hospital when there were no cameras about? it's one thing to say she was faking it when the cameras were there to boost her image, but why go to the extreme of actually doing it when no press was there? if she didn't care, surely she would prefer to be elsewhere and why dedicate herself to this extent when a simple photo op with press in the daytime will do more than enough to achieve her aim of boosting her image?


diana took up the AIDS cause when it was considered unacceptable and deplorable and pariah-like. if she was only doing these things to boost her image, do you not think she would have chosen a more socially acceptable cause where she was certain of an outcome of praise from society? bearing in mind that this was in the early to mid eighties when no one could predict that one day, the AIDS cause would become accepted as the right thing to support and would win you fans for embracing it. if diana was just looking for causes to boost her image do you not think she would have done something where she was sure to get applause rather than take her chances on something that was considered beyond the pale and where chances were high that it would destroy her image altogether?


and even after the public view of AIDS became less hostile, she still had to put up with a bit of opposition. in ken wharfe's book he recounted how he escorted diana to a meeting with the queen where her majesty told her it was better to support a less gruesome cause. and a few royal books have related how at various times, courtiers made the same suggestion to diana and tried to make her stop. they all eventually stopped opposing diana on her AIDS stance but this was after a while, when it was now socially acceptable to take on AIDS charities. but for that period of time when there was no support for what she was doing, would it not have been easier to quit her support for AIDS charities? yes it would have. there were other causes available for her to use to boost her image, so why stick with this one that was not exactly a walk in the park? when someone does some good, even at the cost of their own convenience, it is because they genuinely care.



in the last years of her life, yes she dropped several of her charities of which she was patron. it has been recounted in books by some of diana's closest friends that this was because she was concerned that more money was being spent on 'administration' than on doling out money to people in need. she was not satisified with the tradional way of charity work any longer, and was looking for other avenues and methods to continue doing good. the books i have read,and even if i'm not mistaken the diana inquest, have disclosed that she was planning to open a string of hospices mother-theresa-style around the globe. she died before this could happen.


yes, she went on holidays in the last few months of her life. what's wrong with that? no one can work all the time without a break and diana had been working very hard that year with her landmine commitment.


to suggest that diana was insincere in her motives regarding her humanitarian work, is really mean spirited imo. she had spent her royal life in the company of sick and needy people, dying people, people who looked terrible in their leprous condition and had even nursed a friend who was dying of AIDS ( adrian ward-jackson). i think any human being would be affected by all that and feel compassion. to say it was fake and just a ploy to get publicity is implying that diana must have had no heart all. whatever her faults - and yes there were many of them as her critics love to point out - i don't think she was a cold, unfeeling evil person and only a truly evil person would fail to feel compassion surrounded by people wasted away from AIDS and limbless from landmines and deformed from leprosy. and however good an actor one is, it is impossible to keep up the act all the time for 16 years. you cannot fool the recipients of your compassion for so long, and all the victims who ever received sympathy and support from diana have said that she really connected with them and they felt her love.



no one is saying that diana was a saint, she was far from it with her mood swings and choice of men and habit of dropping her friends. but she never claimed she was a saint and would laugh at such a claim as even her private secretary who has sometimes been quite critical about her, has written. but who is a saint? no one. we are all human being with shortcomings. that diana was a human being with shortcomings did not make her a bad or terrible person. rather what she did was show us that whatever our problems and trials and weaknesses and vices, one can nevertheless express the best part of themselves and be compassionate and make a positive difference in the lives of others.



diana having flaws didn't lessen her compassion or deprive her of having a positive side to her. and yet, people will endlessly point out and in some cases exaggerate her flaws, as if to argue that her being so flawed meant there was no good in her. i have been a lurker on this forum for some time, and i have noticed that this seems to be the stance of some people, because whenever someone points out a virtue of diana, another person immediately jumps in and denounces diana and says that this virtue was absent in her. is she to be allowed no virtues whatsoever then, and only flaws?



however inflicted with shortcomings a person may be, i don't believe there is any such thing as someone having no good in them. it is no crime to be anti-diana, we can't all hold the same views. but even if you are anti-diana, surely it must be evident to any mature adult, that in the same way that there is no such thing as there being only good and perfect in one person, there is also no such thing as there being only bad in one person as well. if this is apparent to anti-dianas, then why must they challenge absolutely every little nice thing said about her, as if she was a lady with nothing good in her at all? why not just acknowledge it (or ignore it if you can't stand to hear diana being praised over anything) and move on to bring up an indisputable flaw like moodiness, rather than just argue that every good quality was non-existent?



diana, during her years on Earth, devoted herself to causes like AIDS, cancer, homelessness, leprosy, abolition of landmines, sick children. she was truly an extraordinary person and humanitarian. she helped make AIDS less of a stigma, brought the plight of lepers and landmine victims to the attention of the world and lived her life in search of love. all her mistakes and strengths were motivated by this search for love.
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  #272  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:38 PM
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Diana's caring was real enough, but it wasn't her job, true. She had other things to do in life and she had other roles to play. Maybe if she not been who she was, she might have made a job of caring, had a job with a caring role, but as nobility and later royalty charity work was the way to express that caring. Of course Diana had many other sides to her.
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  #273  
Old 05-06-2009, 02:38 PM
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I would agree that there's different levels of involvement, "caring" if you will... and being a celebrity on a visit is different than being a social worker or a NICU nurse or something like that. And even though Diana didn't work in the field like those professionals, she did bring attention to issues and joy to the people who met her... so that is also a worthwhile contribution. I'm sure she had lots of days where she didn't really want to be on show, but she probably felt she had an obligation not to disapppoint people with illnesses, and I think that takes an effort.

I'm disappointed that after her death some people have felt that she was superficial in her approach and that she abandoned many of her causes.

Like I said, I'd rather remember the good that came from her, and the enjoyment she gave so many of us.
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  #274  
Old 05-06-2009, 03:02 PM
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hi, i'm new here. interesting discussion. no one can ever say for certain whether or not someone is genuine when they put on a display of caring and charity as one would have to be psychic and see inside the person's heart to say for sure. in the end it seems the people who liked diana are willing to believe it was genuine while those who disliked her are adamant that it was all a show for publicity. <snip long post>
Well said mercuryin, and welcome to the forums. I agree she was brilliant with her charities.
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  #275  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:36 PM
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my personal opinion is that diana was genuine in her charity work. the landmine campaign attracted severe criticism from members of parliament. if she was only doing it for the publicity, why wouldn't she quit then with all the hassle she was getting?
Perhaps because she saw it as a way of 'getting even'?
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if diana was a fake in her charity work, then can someone explain why she would go visit patients in hospital when there were no cameras about? it's one thing to say she was faking it when the cameras were there to boost her image, but why go to the extreme of actually doing it when no press was there?
To visit her latest love perhaps?
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in ken wharfe's book he recounted how he escorted diana to a meeting with the queen where her majesty told her it was better to support a less gruesome cause.
I would find that hard to believe, as Charles was the one originally invited but as he was unable to attend, Diana was sent instead. Had it been true about HM 'having a word', excuses would have been made beforehand.
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and even if i'm not mistaken the diana inquest, have disclosed that she was planning to open a string of hospices mother-theresa-style around the globe. she died before this could happen.
Having followed the inquest closely, there was nothing to say this.
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to suggest that diana was insincere in her motives regarding her humanitarian work, is really mean spirited imo. she had spent her royal life in the company of sick and needy people, dying people, people who looked terrible in their leprous condition and had even nursed a friend who was dying of AIDS ( adrian ward-jackson).
Lets have a touch of reality here, Diana did not spend her royal life in the company of sick and needy people, the dying or lepers. Nor did she nurse AWJ!
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but even if you are anti-diana, surely it must be evident to any mature adult, that in the same way that there is no such thing as there being only good and perfect in one person, there is also no such thing as there being only bad in one person as well.
I have read very few posts on here saying Diana was all bad, but exaggerated claims over any person should be challenged or is it better, IYO, to perpetuate inaccuracies? Of course posters are going to give their opinion on whatever royal, take a look at the remarks posted in the Duchess of Cornwell threads, good and bad. Should those that don't try to hide their hatred of DoC stay here in the Diana threads, because if that is the case, where is the discussion.

The thread title is asking a question, asking for each posters opinion, good or bad!
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  #276  
Old 05-06-2009, 06:20 PM
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This is so true, and I find it on many message boards.

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hi, i'm new here. interesting discussion. no one can ever say for certain whether or not someone is genuine when they put on a display of caring and charity as one would have to be psychic and see inside the person's heart to say for sure. in the end it seems the people who liked diana are willing to believe it was genuine while those who disliked her are adamant that it was all a show for publicity.


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  #277  
Old 05-06-2009, 07:51 PM
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Perhaps because she saw it as a way of 'getting even'?To visit her latest love perhaps?I would find that hard to believe, as Charles was the one originally invited but as he was unable to attend, Diana was sent instead. Had it been true about HM 'having a word', excuses would have been made beforehand.Having followed the inquest closely, there was nothing to say this.Lets have a touch of reality here, Diana did not spend her royal life in the company of sick and needy people, the dying or lepers. Nor did she nurse AWJ! I have read very few posts on here saying Diana was all bad, but exaggerated claims over any person should be challenged or is it better, IYO, to perpetuate inaccuracies? Of course posters are going to give their opinion on whatever royal, take a look at the remarks posted in the Duchess of Cornwell threads, good and bad. Should those that don't try to hide their hatred of DoC stay here in the Diana threads, because if that is the case, where is the discussion.

The thread title is asking a question, asking for each posters opinion, good or bad!
Mercuryin gave you her opinion, to which she is as entitled to as you are to yours. It might be nice not to attack a new member on their first post, line by line, even though you disagree with her.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mercuryin View Post
hi, i'm new here. interesting discussion. no one can ever say for certain whether or not someone is genuine when they put on a display of caring and charity as one would have to be psychic and see inside the person's heart to say for sure. in the end it seems the people who liked diana are willing to believe it was genuine while those who disliked her are adamant that it was all a show for publicity.
Hi mercuryin.

I don't think it is quite this clear cut. Some of us have complex feelings about Diana. I didn't particularly like her, but I do believe that she had a genuine concern for people who were disadvantaged or suffering and wished to help, and that her actions regarding landmines and HIV/AIDs and visiting people in hospitals (apart from those which were a ruse to enable her to be close to Dr Khan) were primarily motivated by a desire to do what she could, in her own way, to help.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:58 AM
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to which she is as entitled to as you are to yours. It might be nice not to attack a new member on their first post, line by line, even though you disagree with her.
Really, I am entitled to my opinion, so why the need to complain that I stated it? The poster concerned made a number of claims in her post that are wholly inaccurate. I could have pointed out that it was not a discussion on her opinion of other posters, I could even have followed other posters examples and PM'd a moderator! I could have really gone line by line, however I replied to the main points I disagreed with.

She asked, presumably, a genuine question, "why wouldn't she quit then with all the hassle she was getting", I gave a reason.

She made mention of the not so secret hospital visits, which turned out to be visits to Khan.

Did Diana live her entire royal life in the company of sick people, etc? No she lived in excellent accommodation with servants to answer to her every whim, she holidayed, etc, etc.

It might be helpful to a discussion, (I missed any point about her legacy in your post), if you perhaps read what had been written before yet another unfounded attack. Would you have refrained, if the poster had posted something you considered highly inaccurate, first post or not, I doubt it!

----------------------- --------------------

To get back on track, Diana's legacy - what is left or will be left.

I read that as what she will be remembered for, not just by her fans but by ordinary people. Even today many people associate the AIDS charity with Elton John and the like. Most people can't remember what charities she was involved with but they do know she was involved with the Landmine campaign and they do know William & Harry are her sons. These, IMO, will be what she will be remembered for!
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:30 AM
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thanks for the welcomes!

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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Perhaps because she saw it as a way of 'getting even'?
getting even for what? how had members of british parliament wronged her?

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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
To visit her latest love perhaps?
diana was doing private visits long before she met khan. in 1992 for example, she regularly visited patients in a hospital the name of which escapes me. she would take a hands on approach and empty bed pans and the like.

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Lets have a touch of reality here, Diana did not spend her royal life in the company of sick and needy people, the dying or lepers. Nor did she nurse AWJ! I
diana spent alot of time devoting herself to AIDS, leprosy, and sick people charities, during her royal career. that is a fact. and yes she did nurse adrian ward-jackson along with her friend angela serota.

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I have read very few posts on here saying Diana was all bad, but exaggerated claims over any person should be challenged or is it better, IYO, to perpetuate inaccuracies?
no one has actually come out and stated blankly that diana was all bad, but it seems to me that this is what is implied when a poster challenges every single positive thing said about diana. ok, we can't all hold the same views, if one disagrees with a positive trait claimed about diana, there's nothing wrong with that and debate is healthy. this is not a diana fan site after all, it is a debating forum. but when someone almost obsessively always challenges every single little positive thing said about diana, then i have to assume that the attitude of the poster is that she had nothing good in her at all. because if the poster was of the opinion that diana did have some good points, then why not let someone else write of a positive quality without challenging that every single time ?

if a poster is of the opinion that diana had some good qualities as well as bad, then that poster would acknowledge the good in her and also point out the bad INSTEAD OF just pointing out the bad all the time and refuting the good all the time. to me that kind of behaviour implies that the poster is of the opinion that nothing good existed at all in her.

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Of course posters are going to give their opinion on whatever royal, take a look at the remarks posted in the Duchess of Cornwell threads, good and bad. Should those that don't try to hide their hatred of DoC stay here in the Diana threads, because if that is the case, where is the discussion.

The thread title is asking a question, asking for each posters opinion, good or bad!
no one is saying that all opinions should be good, but i am questioning why certain posters refute, not some, but all the good opinions about a person. it makes it look as if they think that only bad existed in someone.

for example, i am no fan of camilla and i may write something negative about her and if someone writes positive things about her i may refute some or most of these positive opinions but not absolutely all of them. if i did, that would imply that i think camilla is nothing but bad and has no positive in her. i may never write anything good about camilla because i am no fan of hers, and if i disagree with alot of positive things claimed of her, then i will refute those claims. but i do believe that no person is incapable of good traits and therefore will never refute absolutely every single little thing that reflects her in a good light.

it seems to me that for some people here, not a single good thing about diana is allowed to go unchallenged. i would understand it if someone challenges some good things said about her or most good things said about her, but it seems that all good things said about her are challenged by some posters. i don't get that attitude if you believe that there's good and bad in every person and that diana wasn't all bad. my thinking is:

a) if you are not a diana fan

b) and can't stand to hear diana being praised

c) but do believe that like all people there was good as well as bad in her...

then go ahead and do nothing but criticise her and refute some or most good things said about her. nothing wrong with that, and that is the approach i would take with camilla. but why challenge absolutely every single positive thing said about her? not only does this makes it look as if you think she was nothing but bad and no good ever entered her, but you also come across as someone who is trying to bully someone off the forum,for daring to write good about her.

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It might be helpful to a discussion, (I missed any point about her legacy in your post), if you perhaps read what had been written before yet another unfounded attack. Would you have refrained, if the poster had posted something you considered highly inaccurate, first post or not, I doubt it!


i did write about her legacy at the end of my post, which is: i think she helped to de-stigmatise AIDS and leprosy. my post was not an attack, and there was nothing unfounded about it. no need to roll your eyes at me, thank you.
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