The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2061  
Old 11-25-2017, 12:11 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 3,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
Pranter, M Payton and Osipi..great posts and observations. Totally agree with your words
I agree Missjersey that these posters have summed up exactly what I believe regarding the BRF and introducing new members to royal life. I believe that Sophie, Camilla and Kate have all benefited from this new policy. I also believe that other European royal families have opted for a gradual introduction for their new consorts too after observing what their UK counterparts encountered in the 1980's and 1990's. IMHO Diana would have also supported this type of slower introduction for William and Harry's spouses. Should Harry and Meghan announce their engagement in the coming weeks/months, I sincerely hope that Meghan will also have a gradual introduction to her royal life and duties. It is far better to establish their relationship as husband and wife before being handed a busy schedule of royal duties IMHO.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2062  
Old 11-25-2017, 12:19 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: colchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Or simply...marry in haste, repent at leisure.....as trite as that is.


LaRae

I don't think there's any chance that we'll see a return to the tragedy that was Diana and Charles. Their boys have seen to that. We must wait, now, to see what is the Royal marriage format when it's George and Charlotte's turn.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2063  
Old 11-25-2017, 12:48 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 2,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I wonder if Diana had gotten more support she wouldn't of gotten so sucked into the attention from outside sources. A shame she couldn't of had more of a Kate-like introduction to working life in the BRF after marriage.


LaRae
But a problem with that was she married the heir to the throne. He was already a full time working royal with a busy schedule. It worked for William and Kate because they were in a different position.
Reply With Quote
  #2064  
Old 11-25-2017, 01:06 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
So, then, I think perhaps part of Diana's legacy is a lesson in "how not to make a royal marriage". Its also a lesson to the everyday couple too. Look before you leap.
Exactly so. And as others have mentioned, her most powerful legacy can be seen in how William defends Kate, especially the willingness to go to court and sue. William's willingness to be litigious, as with the French photos, has changed the pap landscape. The line of cause-and-effect cannot be more clear from Diana to William in this regard.

We can also see it in Harry, though it took him two previous girlfriends to realize how proactive he needed to be with just a girlfriend (not yet engaged/married). Learning curve there.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2065  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:47 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 9,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
I don't think there's any chance that we'll see a return to the tragedy that was Diana and Charles. Their boys have seen to that. We must wait, now, to see what is the Royal marriage format when it's George and Charlotte's turn.
I agree...very unlikely (thank God) to see that repeated. I think they will be more like what we are seeing now for years and years to come.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2066  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:49 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 9,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
But a problem with that was she married the heir to the throne. He was already a full time working royal with a busy schedule. It worked for William and Kate because they were in a different position.
Yes I know there is a difference in status at the time...I still think things could of been handled very differently.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2067  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:50 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 9,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Exactly so. And as others have mentioned, her most powerful legacy can be seen in how William defends Kate, especially the willingness to go to court and sue. William's willingness to be litigious, as with the French photos, has changed the pap landscape. The line of cause-and-effect cannot be more clear from Diana to William in this regard.

We can also see it in Harry, though it took him two previous girlfriends to realize how proactive he needed to be with just a girlfriend (not yet engaged/married). Learning curve there.
Yes exactly. The media poisoned the well for decades to come with the BRF.



LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2068  
Old 11-25-2017, 04:21 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Yes exactly. The media poisoned the well for decades to come with the BRF. LaRae
You misunderstood my point: it was Diana's legacy (not the media's) that I was addressing. It is because of Diana and her interactions with the press, both sought and un-sought, that has impacted what is tolerated now regarding the press and royal spouses. It was not the media (per se) that 'poisoned the well', but the unholy alliance the media forged with their media-darling Diana and her complicity in that whole scenario (unwittingly initiated by Charles himself).

Watch Kate last night in the most recent event: William is clearly (obliquely) attentive to Kate, but more significantly, Kate does not place herself outside of the sphere of William in the whole proceeding. She draws back, allows him pre-eminence in all interactions. She does not see the event as an opportunity to play to the crowd, or the cameras. This 'proper behavior' I see as a direct consequence of Diana. Her legacy is that no royal wife will ever grandstand as she did. (Understanding that Charles had a part in setting that ball rolling, unwittingly, and that there may be some class issues connected with Kate 'knowing her place' that didn't apply in the case of Diana who was seen as 'legitimate' class-wise).

Imagine if Diana had steadfastly refused to separate herself from Charles at all events (a bit as Camilla does now) how differently the whole thing would have gone down. (Not sure she could have done that btw, given Charles' view at the time). However, it is precisely because of the unintended consequences of that pov that we now see a very different spousal presence at events. That's an aspect of Diana's legacy.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2069  
Old 11-25-2017, 04:42 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 9,564
Ah gotcha...and very true. That has always pretty much been how things have gone. Now and then she does precede him but not at formal events unless he directs her to do so.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #2070  
Old 01-26-2018, 02:46 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 11,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
So in 'keeping her memory alive' what exactly is being 'kept alive'? It is an honest question.
I'm going to take a stab at it. What has been "kept alive" is the years of Diana's public works. Her sons have taken on some of the good works Diana started and this is what I believe they want to keep alive.

From all we've seen of William and Harry, there is a red line drawn in the sand between their private and public lives. I can't see them pushing to keep alive anything pertaining to Diana's private life and the chaos that was their parent's marriage. They focus mainly on the good she did out and among the people.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2071  
Old 01-26-2018, 02:55 AM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm going to take a stab at it. What has been "kept alive" is the years of Diana's public works. Her sons have taken on some of the good works Diana started and this is what I believe they want to keep alive.

From all we've seen of William and Harry, there is a red line drawn in the sand between their private and public lives. I can't see them pushing to keep alive anything pertaining to Diana's private life and the chaos that was their parent's marriage. They focus mainly on the good she did out and among the people.
Okay, that makes sense on the face of it, but the reality is (imo) what is actually 'kept alive' is exactly all the animus and drama of her private life. By far the heaviest 'legacy' of Diana (in the present) whenever she is brought up is the smear against Camilla that keeps Camilla well and good 'down'. It's unsavory in my view. The woman doesn't 'deserve' it.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2072  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:15 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 11,980
I would put the blame of keeping the private life alive on the media. That stuff sells like the latest smart phone. Quite a few royal reporters earned a hell of a lot of money using Diana as their cash cow. The 90s really turned out to be the decade that the British Royal Family was turned into a soap opera and there was a lot of damage done.
__________________
No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. Good and bad are but names very readily transferable to that or this; the only right is what is after my constitution, the only wrong what is against it.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2073  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:47 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: new-york, United States
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Okay, that makes sense on the face of it, but the reality is (imo) what is actually 'kept alive' is exactly all the animus and drama of her private life. By far the heaviest 'legacy' of Diana (in the present) whenever she is brought up is the smear against Camilla that keeps Camilla well and good 'down'. It's unsavory in my view. The woman doesn't 'deserve' it.
I think ppl, media will talk abt her charity work , love triangle, her affairs and relationships with RF.
Reply With Quote
  #2074  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:00 AM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
I think ppl, media will talk abt her charity work , love triangle, her affairs and relationships with RF.
Yes, that is the 'memory', and within all that is serious damage being done to one person in particular. (I view Camilla as 'road kill' in Diana's wake). The 'love triangle' is the rationale Diana gave ('there were three of us in the marriage' said directly after admitting she was 'madly in love' with Hewitt good grief, one can't make this stuff up as the current saying goes) for why she phone stalked an unwilling-to-cooperate married man, risking criminal charges being laid at the door to the wife of the heir to the throne. This goes beyond irony.

In many ways, Diana presages our current political times (certainly in the US).
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2075  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:22 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm going to take a stab at it. What has been "kept alive" is the years of Diana's public works. Her sons have taken on some of the good works Diana started and this is what I believe they want to keep alive.

From all we've seen of William and Harry, there is a red line drawn in the sand between their private and public lives. I can't see them pushing to keep alive anything pertaining to Diana's private life and the chaos that was their parent's marriage. They focus mainly on the good she did out and among the people.
I didn't read their various things they did last August, not fully but I got the impression they did talk about her private life, more than her charity work- which is proper in a way. She was thteir mother, they knew her as Mum, rather than as a charity worker or a Royal.. but I think that it DID stir up a lot of stuff in the media, and on social media of people either snarking about perceived flaws in Diana herself or in using what the 2 of htem said to have a go at Charles...
Reply With Quote
  #2076  
Old 03-18-2018, 10:47 PM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 861
An interesting analysis of Diana PofW's impact on the British royal family, and her lasting legacy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/o...-monarchy.html

It's not saying Diana was perfect of course. But it does tell the truth about the cold practice of how she was chosen as a virginal bride for Prince Charles, who did not have the determined backbone of his parents. Both Princess Elizabeth and Philip Mountbatten were each also manipulated during their 1940's courtship, but they both ultimately knew their own minds and held out for what they wanted, which in the end and essentially from the very beginning, was each other.*

I've recognized for some time that Prince Harry and Prince William, through the love they received from both their parents, have managed to survive the griefs of their childhood and in the process they have overcome some of the shortcomings of the institution into which they were born. They are Diana's lasting legacy.

The writer proclaims that Diana "is the ultimate victor." That's a nice sentiment, but I wouldn't phrase it quite that way because although Diana was engaged in a war for her own survival, sanity, and happiness, I do not think she was against what the royal family stood for. She was just unwittingly caught up in it's old-fashioned strictures and it's chaotic lurch into the modern age. Fortunately, it is the better angels of Diana's nature that she succeeded in passing onto her sons. That inheritance of love, caring, vulnerability, and rebellious grace is coupled with Harry's and William's filial sense of duty and respect for ancient family traditions.

For her part, I think Diana would simply feel relieved, proud and at peace to see her sons genuinely and happily in love, well-adjusted, and carrying on her work of reaching out to others and trying to make the world a better place.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ver/539706001/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/opini...tby/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #2077  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:26 AM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,422
Sadly, Diana's 'lasting legacy' seems to be the crushing animus against Charles. She is a 'gift that keeps on giving.' Sorry. Often I am not on TRF but I do read royal news items and it is when I am reading those that I have realized that it is simply a given that whenever an historical summary is given and Diana is referenced, there is an automatic reference to the state of Diana's distress in her marriage to Charles (with Camilla lurking in the background). It even happens here on this forum. Camilla is endlessly positioned as the woman Charles was in love with when he said his vows to Diana, dismissing all that Charles did to make that marriage work. On and on and on. It never ends.

That is Diana's 'lasting legacy': the utter contempt shown towards Charles. It's toxic. It needs to stop, and her sons could stop it in it's tracks. That's a fact. Without 'taking sides' they could put an end to it all in one fell swoop. I await that day, if ever it comes.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2078  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:35 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Sadly, Diana's 'lasting legacy' seems to be the crushing animus against Charles. She is a 'gift that keeps on giving.' Sorry. Often I am not on TRF but I do read royal news items and it is when I am reading those that I have realized that it is simply a given that whenever an historical summary is given and Diana is referenced, there is an automatic reference to the state of Diana's distress in her marriage to Charles (with Camilla lurking in the background). It even happens here on this forum. Camilla is endlessly positioned as the woman Charles was in love with when he said his vows to Diana, dismissing all that Charles did to make that marriage work. On and on and on. It never ends.

That is Diana's 'lasting legacy': the utter contempt shown towards Charles. It's toxic. It needs to stop, and her sons could stop it in it's tracks. That's a fact. Without 'taking sides' they could put an end to it all in one fell swoop. I await that day, if ever it comes.
Can you elaborate on how William and Harry can reverse "the utter contempt shown towards Charles"?
Reply With Quote
  #2079  
Old 03-19-2018, 04:18 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: colchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Sadly, Diana's 'lasting legacy' seems to be the crushing animus against Charles. She is a 'gift that keeps on giving.' Sorry. Often I am not on TRF but I do read royal news items and it is when I am reading those that I have realized that it is simply a given that whenever an historical summary is given and Diana is referenced, there is an automatic reference to the state of Diana's distress in her marriage to Charles (with Camilla lurking in the background). It even happens here on this forum. Camilla is endlessly positioned as the woman Charles was in love with when he said his vows to Diana, dismissing all that Charles did to make that marriage work. On and on and on. It never ends.

That is Diana's 'lasting legacy': the utter contempt shown towards Charles. It's toxic. It needs to stop, and her sons could stop it in it's tracks. That's a fact. Without 'taking sides' they could put an end to it all in one fell swoop. I await that day, if ever it comes.

Mmm. Perhaps if we remove the names Charles and Diana we might be able to see the situation rather less passionately. Let's just say that male falls helplessly in love with a female who suits him in every way but for various reasons doesn't make the ultimate commitment to her. He is, however, rather put out when she marries elsewhere and carries memories of what they had once had. He eventually gets together with another female, deemed by others to be much more suitable. As he feels, by now, it's necessary for him to marry, ie, it's his duty, he marries her. His duty is DONE, not necessarily FELT. The fact that his bride isn't as perfect a match -for him- as was his past love, makes commitment to the marriage more difficult. When his past, and real love, once again crosses his path and all his old feelings for her resurface, there surely must have been turmoil for him, especially as his wife was the mother of his children and loved by all.
I don't doubt that the man DID what he could, as far as was possible for him, to make his marriage work, but if his heart was elsewhere -and I don't believe he'd ever fallen out of love with his first love and then fallen IN love again- there could not have been the depth of feeling there, especially so if he'd started to see the possibility of a permanent future with his first love. It matters, not a jot, what are the names of those enmeshed in the sad triangle. The dilemma would be the same whoever they were.
Reply With Quote
  #2080  
Old 03-19-2018, 04:57 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,453
Utter contempt shown to Charles>? yes thanks to his marital failure he is awlasy going to get some criticism and he will have people who are not that happy with him because of the way he managed his marriage. And the fact that he wound up married ot the woman who got involved iwht him, afer he was married and who is also divorced. Some conservative people are critical of him for this, givin his postion in the C Of E. But I don't see any great contempt for him. Mostly people have accepted that times have changed.. that his first marriage was a mistake and that it didn't wrok out. Mabye he didn't try as hard as he could, but most people don't relaly mind.
I can't see what this has to do with Diana's legacy.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diana princess of wales, legacy, memorial, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Princess Grace's Legacy HMTLove23 Princely Family of Monaco 165 12-07-2017 04:59 PM
Left Or Right-Handed Royals? Peggy Royal Life and Lifestyle 49 02-03-2016 01:34 AM
The Legacy of Elizabeth II vkrish Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh 21 12-18-2012 06:45 AM




Popular Tags
"chinese gordon" aif australia baltic republics biography british royal family camilla clothes crown princess victoria current events daughter duke of york extramarital affairs fashion germany harry and meghan hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume historical history infanta cristina iñaki iñaki urdangarín jacobite juan carlos juan urdangarín king philippe king willem-alexander meghan markle nassau norwegian royal family osborn philippe porphyria prince charles prince daniel prince gabriel prince guillaume prince harry prince harry of wales prince louis prince nicholas prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire princess eugenie princess leonore prince william public opinion queen letizia queen mary of teck queen mathilde queen maxima royal royal ancestry royal geneology royal wedding soldier spain state visit stephanie succession sweden swedish royal family theatre the crown titles uk styles visit from spain wedding windsor castle



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018
Jelsoft Enterprises