Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well perhaps this obsession came with time. If (mind the bolding please) Charles was actually "the first" to cheat on her, then it may be a possible explaination to her constant spying on these men. She might have feared for this to happen again.

That's an interesting point, Kelly. Possibly her experience in the triangle with Charles & Camilla made her more suspicious than she would have been otherwise. Or more likely, she had a chronic insecurity, which caused her mind to produce all kinds of jealous feelings.

What I can't figure out is why Hewitt didn't go through this treatment of obsessive phone calls, etc.

Maybe Hewitt was the more emotionally/psycologically unbalanced of the two. For a change, maybe the obsessive and unhealthy behaviors were more on his side. Theirs was always going to be an erratic fusion: two emotionally jaded souls, desperate for validation and terrified of losing or being hurt.

 

[sirhon11234]

Theres always a cause for erratic behaviour. I don't understand why she would behave that way with Charles that earlier on in the marriage. Maybe her insecurities and the bulimia caused her to act out in such a way. This could've happened before Charles resumed his affair with Camilla or after.

 

[TheTruth]

Maybe Hewitt was the more emotionally/psycologically unbalanced of the two. For a change, maybe the obsessive and unhealthy behaviors were more on his side. Theirs was always going to be an erratic fusion: two emotionally jaded souls, desperate for validation and terrified of losing or being hurt.

While reading my previous post again, I realised that for Hewitt there were the letters she sent him. Although I don't think it was the same kind of behaviour because he replied to her so he agreed to take part of it. Like you, I think they were both completely lost and in the same state of mind. They could share feelings since they had grown up in broken homes. But, IMO, their relationship was much too passionate and at that time Diana was far from being in a stable mind so when it ended, it was a disaster for her emotional behaviour.

 

[Skydragon]

What I wonder here though is whether she treated Charles as obsessively as she treated, say, O Hoare, when she was newly married. Compared to how she stalked O Hoare and Hasnat Khan, Charles almost seems lucky in the way she treated him, no?

I believe a lot of the problems started because Diana couldn't understand and wouldn't accept that Charles couldn't cancel pre arranged engagements because she felt 'lonely', or she felt sick, he was after all the Prince of Wales! As his wife 'she' should be the most important thing in his life and if she needed company, he should drop everything.

With most people with this kind of problem, there would follow the questions, wanting exact details of why it had taken him 30 minutes instead of 25, what women he had met, did he make any phone calls, was he complaining about her to friends etc. It can be exhausting living with an obsessive and jealous person, in the end people end up fibbing about who they met etc, to avoid a scene!

I think Diana had this trait as a child before she met Charles. As a child she tended to be jealous of her father's attention too which was the source of the animosity towards Raine in her childhood years. So I think it was in her nature before she met Charles.

I agree, she certainly came across as being jealous of the attention her father gave any women, especially Raine.

What I can't figure out is why Hewitt didn't go through this treatment of obsessive phone calls, etc.

Simply, because Diana broke up with him, not the other way around. Diana seems to have had no problem if she was the one leaving, the problems arose when she was being left. I mean no nastiness when I use this example....

It is similar to the dog that won't eat a biscuit, if another dog comes by or it's human teases it, suddenly the biscuit is all it wants.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

It is similar to the dog that won't eat a biscuit, if another dog comes by or it's human teases it, suddenly the biscuit is all it wants.

However, there is a wonderful thing about dogs.... they don't hold a grudge about anything. Their minds move from one event to the next, living totally in the moment. Diana rather lacked that quality, didn't she? Well, many people lack that wonderful, beautiful quality, come to think of it.

 

[Skydragon]

However, there is a wonderful thing about dogs.... they don't hold a grudge about anything. Their minds move from one event to the next, living totally in the moment. Diana rather lacked that quality, didn't she? Well, many people lack that wonderful, beautiful quality, come to think of it.

You have not met our Great Danes, capable of sulking for hours, ignoring you as punishment for not giving them that bag of Hula Hoops! They know where they are going by car, whether it's the vet, friends, woods or beach. Ours can certainly hold a grudge against anyone who has not been nice to them! Diana did not pursue the men she had had enough of (Hewitt) but did pursue those that had had enough of her (Charles, Hasnat, etc), she also pursued those she wanted and couldn't have (Havers).

 

[ysbel]

I was just thinking that if Diana had been a man in a normal situation, some of her obsessive behavior would have brought a restraining order by the person targeted.

She was certainly lucky in that being a woman, the danger of her obsessiveness was not so apparent and that she was still able to garner such sympathy and love from the masses. The victims of her obsessiveness were not so lucky. Their pain was either ignored or they were villified for taking a stand because they were seen letting Diana down.

 

[Skydragon]

I was just thinking that if Diana had been a man in a normal situation, some of her obsessive behavior would have brought a restraining order by the person targeted.

She was certainly lucky in that being a woman, the danger of her obsessiveness was not so apparent and that she was still able to garner such sympathy and love from the masses. The victims of her obsessiveness were not so lucky. Their pain was either ignored or they were villified for taking a stand because they were seen letting Diana down.

Everybody appears to have covered up for her, but would the 'masses' have believed it anyway? Anyone who had a problem with Diana was ripped apart either by the media or her fans. Even now it is harder to obtain a restraining order against a female than a male and of course hard to enforce. The film Fatal Attraction was seen as 'far fetched', well spoken or well bred women simply didn't do that sort of thing!

I always felt sorry for Nigel Havers, whom Diana pursued even though she knew Polly had cancer, (she finally died in 2004).

 

[Warren]

I often wonder how self-aware she was. For example, with the 300-odd phone calls to Oliver Hoare, or the demands for Hasnat Khan to come to the phone while performing an operation, did she ever stop and think "what am I doing?!!" Either she thought the public Diana was virtually untouchable and therefore could get away with anything, or she had no realisation of how her behaviour would be seen by the targets of her affection.

It's quite odd in that we often say she was "media savvy" because she had a firm grasp and understanding of how to use the press to achieve her own ends, but her personal relationships were often fraught and erratic. On the one hand she could be quite cool and calculating, and on the other seemingly spinning out of control. A 'Princess Perfect' for the masses, and verging on an obsessive 'bunny boiler' for the men who tried to get away. Maybe she had cut out of her life those who would be likely to tell her to "get a grip", but it seems there were few people who were prepared to tell her some home truths.

 

[TheTruth]

I often wonder how self-aware she was. For example, with the 300-odd phone calls to Oliver Hoare, or the demands for Hasnat Khan to come to the phone while performing an operation, did she ever stop and think "what am I doing?!!" Either she thought the public Diana was virtually untouchable and therefore could get away with anything, or she had no realisation of how her behaviour would be seen by the targets of her affection.

I believe she was the kind of person to act before thinking. I remember the example of Morton's book. She helped him in every possible way to make it come true but in the end, she confessed to a friend that she had done something terribly wrong. Too late I guess. In my mind, she did know what she was doing but when her self-satisfaction came up, she could do crazy things as you mentioned Warren.

 

[sirhon11234]

I beleive Diana had two sides to her; when she was happy, people saw her kind, caring and giving side. But when she was unhappy people saw this manipulative,vindictive and spiteful side of her. One of the problems I think the Princess had was that she had much too much fame much too early.

 

[Skydragon]

I don't think she was aware of what she was doing 'in private', her thinking was probably 'I want to talk to you, so you must want to talk to me as much'. She was so used to making everyone ask how high she wanted them to jump, it was beyond her comprehension that someone would ignore her need.

When doing princessy things, she acted the part she was expected to play, Using the press was easy, they treated her as they should, 'important and a real princess'. Anyone who tried to point out that she was getting carried away, probably found themselves on her hate list. I believe that Diana could look you straight in the eye and lie with the utmost conviction.

She also had the same belief as President Bush - you were either for her or against her - there couldn't be a middle ground.

 

[TheTruth]

That's, I think, the negative part of being "too" famous Skydragon. Every single day, you see your face in the papers and you receive thousands and thousands of letters of admirers. As years pass, you don't know your real personality anymore, just the one the public gives you. And if your fans see you so positively as Diana's, you come to think that it's true, that you have no bad side at all. So any actions you make, as horrible as they can be, seem normal to you.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

She also had the same belief as President Bush - you were either for her or against her - there couldn't be a middle ground.

Good god, that's a fine way to put it.

I also believe that Diana's chronic insecurity was touched on and she was like a wounded when someone rejected her because she took it personally. So she would become obsessed with making them "want" her; then if she could be successful, she could validate her own sense of worthiness.
Why does Charles love Camilla, not me? Why, is there something wrong with me? Well, I will make him love me!
And when she inevitably failed make him love her, nay -- drove him further away at light speed..........
REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Skydragon]

Why does Charles love Camilla, not me? Why, is there something wrong with me? Well, I will make him love me!
And when she inevitably failed make him love her, nay -- drove him further away at light speed..........
REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly, I think it started long before she married Charles.

 

[Avalon]

I think Diana was desperately craving for attention long before she married Prince Charles.

Diana was a more or less unwanted child, a girl instead of a boy and heir. I guess she felt neglected and second class. Her parents' divorce did nothing to help. She must have felt very insecure and was probably full of romantic ideas about the marriage. Diana probably dreamt of a husband that would be her knight, her 'prince', who would protect her from everything and would be just hers. Charles seemed to be the person. I doubt Diana ever loved Charles the man, but I don't think she married him for his title either. I think Diana created an image of a person and didn't see the real person behind it. But once they were married, it all changed. Diana’s failure failed to understand Charles was a Prince of the United Kingdom, that he had a job to do and that in a way, his personal life would always be second to his duty, was key to her unhappiness. Diana wanted to always be on the first place, and as a woman I can understand her. Being young and immature, she did all the wrong things. An older and more experienced woman would probably be able to mend the things, but Diana just tried to grab Charles’s attention. Her faked suicide attempt was one of those things, but it only distanced Charles (and any man would react in the same way). I do believe Charles that he turned to Camilla only after the marriage was broken beyond repair. But that probably made Diana feel even more miserable and neglected, whether she loved Charles by the time, or not. And misery turned into vindictiveness and we got the Morton book, and later the terrible panorama interview.

The tragedy of Diana & Charles, in my opinion, is that they both married not the people they thought they were. Diana married Charles because she thought the marriage would be her shelter, and Charles would be her protector, that he would always be by her side whenever she needed him (the same she later demanded from Khan). Charles married a young girl, who seemed to have the same interests as him, who, being from the same class, knew the needs and demand of the Monarchy.
Both were wrong, because Charles had a job to do, and Diana couldn't keep up with that.
I always thought, and nothing has happened to change my opinion, that Charles did love Diana, just as Diana loved Charles. But their differences and their failure to understand each other, and Diana's failure to understand Charles's position led to all those tragic events that were to happen.

Someone said in this thread a phrase that I think pretty much describes Diana: when happy, she was able to transfer happiness to the others, but when unhappy herself, the made sure everyone around her was miserable.

.

 

[princess olga]

I believe a lot of the problems started because Diana couldn't understand and wouldn't accept that Charles couldn't cancel pre arranged engagements because she felt 'lonely', or she felt sick, he was after all the Prince of Wales! As his wife 'she' should be the most important thing in his life and if she needed company, he should drop everything.

With most people with this kind of problem, there would follow the questions, wanting exact details of why it had taken him 30 minutes instead of 25, what women he had met, did he make any phone calls, was he complaining about her to friends etc. It can be exhausting living with an obsessive and jealous person, in the end people end up fibbing about who they met etc, to avoid a scene!

..my gosh, that sounds completely draining for the 'receiving' party indeed! Poor Charles!

What I still don't get though is, wasn't Diana, early on in the marriage, really busy herself with engagements and whatnot? I mean, that wouldn't have left her much time for this kind of behavior, one would think. The kind of behavior I would associate with someone who doesn't have a life, which certainly wasn't the case with Diana in those early days.

 

[princess olga]

I only remember that after she ceased to appear as "The Princess of Wales" in public, she send most of her charities down the drain.

..I never got that either! Seemed she had more time on her hands post marriage, to concentrate more on those charities! Especially with her kids in boarding school. Maybe that was part of the problem, here was this woman, post divorce, with too much time on her hands? And that's why she assumed those in her orbit had to just make time for her whenever it suited her?

Come to think of it, she wasn't above summoning a man she never dated but was virtually married to, Paul Burrell, to her house in the middle of the night evidently. I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but if this is what fame does to otherwise good humans, that kind of public adoration should be outlawed!

 

[TheTruth]

But people, it never come to your mind that being so famous and trying to lead a life with the medias around is not that easy ? I mean, as everyone here puts it, it seems that she had nothing to complain about. Honestly, I can't judge and say what she should or shouldn't have done. At least she helped people. In her 36 years, she has done many things, wonderful and horrible but I'm nobody to say that she only went to see these charities for her publicity. What does it change ? They got money and attention from the public. Okay, she dropped many of them in 1993. But I can tell you that if I had been her, I wouldn't have stand a half of what she's been through.

 

[Skydragon]

..my gosh, that sounds completely draining for the 'receiving' party indeed! Poor Charles!

What I still don't get though is, wasn't Diana, early on in the marriage, really busy herself with engagements and whatnot? I mean, that wouldn't have left her much time for this kind of behavior, one would think. The kind of behavior I would associate with someone who doesn't have a life, which certainly wasn't the case with Diana in those early days.

I don't remember Diana having that many solo engagements when they first married and of course once she was pregnant, the problem got worse. Many women feel 'less than attractive' at that time and while she was stuck at home 'suffering', Charles was getting out and meeting people. Some women do treat pregnancy as an illness, others just get on with living.

 

[Skydragon]

But people, it never come to your mind that being so famous and trying to lead a life with the medias around is not that easy ?

Unfortunately, as has been confirmed many times, Diana would phone them and let them know where she was going to be and what she was going to be doing.

 

[TheTruth]

I don't remember Diana having that many solo engagements when they first married and of course once she was pregnant, the problem got worse. Many women feel 'less than attractive' at that time and while she was stuck at home 'suffering', Charles was getting out and meeting people. Some women do treat pregnancy as an illness, others just get on with living.

Very true Skydragon. A friend of my mother's was most of the time missing at work because she got so sick, she couldn't leave bed. But her case was special since she had already lost two unborn babies. I understand that pregnancy can be disturbing for some women : your body changes, you can't no longer do what you could, ... I've never discussed about Diana's quick pregnancy but it might have been an "accelerator" to their marital problems IMO.

 

[TheTruth]

Unfortunately, as has been confirmed many times, Diana would phone them and let them know where she was going to be and what she was going to be doing.

Yes, okay, but what I meant is that she didn't do it in her early life. First of all she didn't know what the hell she was going to do in the RF and secondly, she had not one second to breath without being taken in photo. The 1982 Carribean trip pictures was the worst thing you could do to her and she didn't forget that. The pictures with Dodi on the beach was highly inspired by that. You know what we say : Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. She didn't want to get caught a second time so she controlled the situation and made it happen under her orders this time.

 

[COUNTESS]

Frankly, this is all nonsense. One poster has a definite prejudice against Diana and always lauds Camilla as "sooo wonderful". Well, the truth lie in between. Diana did a great deal. The press didn't need to be called, they came like geese. I am sure they were called at time. When they had walkabouts, Diana was inudated, leaving "poor Charles" seething. Diana did a great deal for charities. Many credit her for her help. She gave a great deal of herself. Now, did she have faults, of course. Yes, Charles has given time and money. More money than time. He has plenty of money to give. Camilla, up until recently did nothing for anyone, but herself. She is now been pushed into the limelight. She has no record or any real "work", I don't mean for pay, in her past. It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead. Camilla is here an now. She is doing her job. I doubt that if she called the press before an engagement they would all drop what they are doing to photograph her.

 

[ysbel]

TheTruth,

I don't think fame caused Diana's problems but I think the public's adoration made her problems more difficult to face. She married into a family that had up to then received unbated deference and respect from the masses and to balance it out, the Royal Family had always been super-critical of themselves and each other. Diana on the other hand received a frenetic adoration from the masses where everyone was saying she was right, she was beautiful, she was wronged by the Royal Family. She heard that she was the only good thing that ever came from that family and the rest of the Royal Family were mad as hatters.

Since she felt the Royal Family didn't appreciate her and did her wrong, this public affirmation convinced her that they were the crazy ones and that she was fine just the way she was and didn't need to change her behavior.

This led to two fatal mistakes that cost her life. Number one, she refused to hire security because she felt the Royal security would be spying on her for the Queen (and she thought the Queen was the enemy-meanwhile she didn't bother to hire security on her own after several run-ins with the press)
The second deadly mistake she made was telling the press that they were going to be surprised by the next thing she did. If she wanted to get the press off her back (and with no security, that would have been wise to get them off her back) the worst thing she could have said was that comment about the press being surprised at what she did next. She literally guaranteed that the press was going to be following her around and indeed, after that statement, Fleet Street reported some tabloids offering up to $1 million dollars for a picture of Diana and Dodi in a compromising position. The combination of no security and enticing the press led to the the frenzied scene that took her life.

Either decision by itself would have been careless but the two together were unbelievably foolhardy.

A lot of Diana's suffering came about from the choices she made.

 

[TheTruth]

I understand perfectly your point ysbel and I'm not putting her faults in doubt. She tried to get the grip on the press and use them like they've used her and I think she believed that from now on, she would be the one to decide what would be on the front page. Terrible mistake that she has paid with her life. That's the price of revenge I believe.

 

[ysbel]

Frankly, this is all nonsense.

Frankly I beg to differ.

One poster has a definite prejudice against Diana and always lauds Camilla as "sooo wonderful".

The last that I read Camilla wasn't the subject of this discussion and I wasn't aware that one sole member could totally dominate a discussion. There are several members posting here.

Camilla and her fiftieth birthday partiy was mentioned as a reason Diana went with Dodi and Camilla was mentioned in reference to Diana not understanding why Charles would have chosen Camilla over her. The reasons why Charles would prefer Camilla over Diana were discussed but then that is because Charles was one of Diana's men as the thread title suggests. Other than that, Camilla hasn't been the focus of the conversation and she certainly hasn't been the focus of the conversation for the last few posts until yours came up.

 

[ysbel]

It is silly to compare the two woman and worse to excoriate one who is dead. Camilla is here an now. She is doing her job. I doubt that if she called the press before an engagement they would all drop what they are doing to photograph her.

Until you mentioned it, I wasn't aware that we were comparing Diana and Camilla but since you've so graciously reminded us, I'd like to remind everyone that this is not a Diana Camilla comparison thread.

I believe most of you know this.

ysbel
British forums moderator

 

[ysbel]

I understand perfectly your point ysbel and I'm not putting her faults in doubt. She tried to get the grip on the press and use them like they've used her and I think she believed that from now on, she would be the one to decide what would be on the front page. Terrible mistake that she has paid with her life. That's the price of revenge I believe.

I think that is very true TheTruth. I think Diana could have accomplished whatever she wanted when she set her mind to it; the problem she ran into was in what she wanted.

Its a question of priorities rather than abilities. For her, getting out of the grip of the Royal Family was more important than making sure she had decent security being the most famous woman in the world. And she could have gotten decent security even without the Royal Family's help. I think you're right in that she wanted to make sure she got on the front page; but a better choice would have been to make sure that when she got on the front page it was for a good cause and worthy of her.

Unfortunately a lot of Diana's suffering was caused by some of her own mistakes, as surely was true of Charles, Camilla, and the rest of the Royal Family as well as the rest of human nature.

 

[COUNTESS]

You are quite right. Diana was foolish and made many mistakes. The first was marrying Charles.