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  #121  
Old 12-23-2007, 08:13 PM
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Well perhaps this obsession came with time. If (mind the bolding please) Charles was actually "the first" to cheat on her, then it may be a possible explaination to her constant spying on these men. She might have feared for this to happen again.
That's an interesting point, Kelly. Possibly her experience in the triangle with Charles & Camilla made her more suspicious than she would have been otherwise. Or more likely, she had a chronic insecurity, which caused her mind to produce all kinds of jealous feelings.

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What I can't figure out is why Hewitt didn't go through this treatment of obsessive phone calls, etc.
Maybe Hewitt was the more emotionally/psycologically unbalanced of the two. For a change, maybe the obsessive and unhealthy behaviors were more on his side. Theirs was always going to be an erratic fusion: two emotionally jaded souls, desperate for validation and terrified of losing or being hurt.
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  #122  
Old 12-23-2007, 08:15 PM
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Theres always a cause for erratic behaviour. I don't understand why she would behave that way with Charles that earlier on in the marriage. Maybe her insecurities and the bulimia caused her to act out in such a way. This could've happened before Charles resumed his affair with Camilla or after.
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  #123  
Old 12-23-2007, 08:39 PM
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Maybe Hewitt was the more emotionally/psycologically unbalanced of the two. For a change, maybe the obsessive and unhealthy behaviors were more on his side. Theirs was always going to be an erratic fusion: two emotionally jaded souls, desperate for validation and terrified of losing or being hurt.
While reading my previous post again, I realised that for Hewitt there were the letters she sent him. Although I don't think it was the same kind of behaviour because he replied to her so he agreed to take part of it. Like you, I think they were both completely lost and in the same state of mind. They could share feelings since they had grown up in broken homes. But, IMO, their relationship was much too passionate and at that time Diana was far from being in a stable mind so when it ended, it was a disaster for her emotional behaviour.
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  #124  
Old 12-24-2007, 07:39 AM
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What I wonder here though is whether she treated Charles as obsessively as she treated, say, O Hoare, when she was newly married. Compared to how she stalked O Hoare and Hasnat Khan, Charles almost seems lucky in the way she treated him, no?
I believe a lot of the problems started because Diana couldn't understand and wouldn't accept that Charles couldn't cancel pre arranged engagements because she felt 'lonely', or she felt sick, he was after all the Prince of Wales! As his wife 'she' should be the most important thing in his life and if she needed company, he should drop everything.

With most people with this kind of problem, there would follow the questions, wanting exact details of why it had taken him 30 minutes instead of 25, what women he had met, did he make any phone calls, was he complaining about her to friends etc. It can be exhausting living with an obsessive and jealous person, in the end people end up fibbing about who they met etc, to avoid a scene!
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Originally Posted by ysbel
I think Diana had this trait as a child before she met Charles. As a child she tended to be jealous of her father's attention too which was the source of the animosity towards Raine in her childhood years. So I think it was in her nature before she met Charles.
I agree, she certainly came across as being jealous of the attention her father gave any women, especially Raine.
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What I can't figure out is why Hewitt didn't go through this treatment of obsessive phone calls, etc.
Simply, because Diana broke up with him, not the other way around. Diana seems to have had no problem if she was the one leaving, the problems arose when she was being left. I mean no nastiness when I use this example....

It is similar to the dog that won't eat a biscuit, if another dog comes by or it's human teases it, suddenly the biscuit is all it wants.
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  #125  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:09 AM
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It is similar to the dog that won't eat a biscuit, if another dog comes by or it's human teases it, suddenly the biscuit is all it wants.
However, there is a wonderful thing about dogs.... they don't hold a grudge about anything. Their minds move from one event to the next, living totally in the moment. Diana rather lacked that quality, didn't she? Well, many people lack that wonderful, beautiful quality, come to think of it.
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  #126  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:29 AM
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However, there is a wonderful thing about dogs.... they don't hold a grudge about anything. Their minds move from one event to the next, living totally in the moment. Diana rather lacked that quality, didn't she? Well, many people lack that wonderful, beautiful quality, come to think of it.
You have not met our Great Danes, capable of sulking for hours, ignoring you as punishment for not giving them that bag of Hula Hoops! They know where they are going by car, whether it's the vet, friends, woods or beach. Ours can certainly hold a grudge against anyone who has not been nice to them! Diana did not pursue the men she had had enough of (Hewitt) but did pursue those that had had enough of her (Charles, Hasnat, etc), she also pursued those she wanted and couldn't have (Havers).
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  #127  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:59 AM
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I was just thinking that if Diana had been a man in a normal situation, some of her obsessive behavior would have brought a restraining order by the person targeted.

She was certainly lucky in that being a woman, the danger of her obsessiveness was not so apparent and that she was still able to garner such sympathy and love from the masses. The victims of her obsessiveness were not so lucky. Their pain was either ignored or they were villified for taking a stand because they were seen letting Diana down.
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  #128  
Old 12-24-2007, 10:36 AM
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I was just thinking that if Diana had been a man in a normal situation, some of her obsessive behavior would have brought a restraining order by the person targeted.

She was certainly lucky in that being a woman, the danger of her obsessiveness was not so apparent and that she was still able to garner such sympathy and love from the masses. The victims of her obsessiveness were not so lucky. Their pain was either ignored or they were villified for taking a stand because they were seen letting Diana down.
Everybody appears to have covered up for her, but would the 'masses' have believed it anyway? Anyone who had a problem with Diana was ripped apart either by the media or her fans. Even now it is harder to obtain a restraining order against a female than a male and of course hard to enforce. The film Fatal Attraction was seen as 'far fetched', well spoken or well bred women simply didn't do that sort of thing!

I always felt sorry for Nigel Havers, whom Diana pursued even though she knew Polly had cancer, (she finally died in 2004).
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  #129  
Old 12-24-2007, 10:39 AM
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I often wonder how self-aware she was. For example, with the 300-odd phone calls to Oliver Hoare, or the demands for Hasnat Khan to come to the phone while performing an operation, did she ever stop and think "what am I doing?!!" Either she thought the public Diana was virtually untouchable and therefore could get away with anything, or she had no realisation of how her behaviour would be seen by the targets of her affection.

It's quite odd in that we often say she was "media savvy" because she had a firm grasp and understanding of how to use the press to achieve her own ends, but her personal relationships were often fraught and erratic. On the one hand she could be quite cool and calculating, and on the other seemingly spinning out of control. A 'Princess Perfect' for the masses, and verging on an obsessive 'bunny boiler' for the men who tried to get away. Maybe she had cut out of her life those who would be likely to tell her to "get a grip", but it seems there were few people who were prepared to tell her some home truths.
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  #130  
Old 12-24-2007, 10:45 AM
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I often wonder how self-aware she was. For example, with the 300-odd phone calls to Oliver Hoare, or the demands for Hasnat Khan to come to the phone while performing an operation, did she ever stop and think "what am I doing?!!" Either she thought the public Diana was virtually untouchable and therefore could get away with anything, or she had no realisation of how her behaviour would be seen by the targets of her affection.
I believe she was the kind of person to act before thinking. I remember the example of Morton's book. She helped him in every possible way to make it come true but in the end, she confessed to a friend that she had done something terribly wrong. Too late I guess. In my mind, she did know what she was doing but when her self-satisfaction came up, she could do crazy things as you mentioned Warren.
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  #131  
Old 12-24-2007, 10:54 AM
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I beleive Diana had two sides to her; when she was happy, people saw her kind, caring and giving side. But when she was unhappy people saw this manipulative,vindictive and spiteful side of her. One of the problems I think the Princess had was that she had much too much fame much too early.
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  #132  
Old 12-24-2007, 10:56 AM
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I don't think she was aware of what she was doing 'in private', her thinking was probably 'I want to talk to you, so you must want to talk to me as much'. She was so used to making everyone ask how high she wanted them to jump, it was beyond her comprehension that someone would ignore her need.

When doing princessy things, she acted the part she was expected to play, Using the press was easy, they treated her as they should, 'important and a real princess'. Anyone who tried to point out that she was getting carried away, probably found themselves on her hate list. I believe that Diana could look you straight in the eye and lie with the utmost conviction.

She also had the same belief as President Bush - you were either for her or against her - there couldn't be a middle ground.
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  #133  
Old 12-24-2007, 11:06 AM
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That's, I think, the negative part of being "too" famous Skydragon. Every single day, you see your face in the papers and you receive thousands and thousands of letters of admirers. As years pass, you don't know your real personality anymore, just the one the public gives you. And if your fans see you so positively as Diana's, you come to think that it's true, that you have no bad side at all. So any actions you make, as horrible as they can be, seem normal to you.
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  #134  
Old 12-24-2007, 12:48 PM
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She also had the same belief as President Bush - you were either for her or against her - there couldn't be a middle ground.
Good god, that's a fine way to put it.

I also believe that Diana's chronic insecurity was touched on and she was like a wounded when someone rejected her because she took it personally. So she would become obsessed with making them "want" her; then if she could be successful, she could validate her own sense of worthiness.
Why does Charles love Camilla, not me? Why, is there something wrong with me? Well, I will make him love me!
And when she inevitably failed make him love her, nay -- drove him further away at light speed..........
REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!
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  #135  
Old 12-24-2007, 02:10 PM
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Why does Charles love Camilla, not me? Why, is there something wrong with me? Well, I will make him love me!
And when she inevitably failed make him love her, nay -- drove him further away at light speed..........
REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!
Sadly, I think it started long before she married Charles.
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  #136  
Old 12-25-2007, 04:38 AM
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I think Diana was desperately craving for attention long before she married Prince Charles.

Diana was a more or less unwanted child, a girl instead of a boy and heir. I guess she felt neglected and second class. Her parents' divorce did nothing to help. She must have felt very insecure and was probably full of romantic ideas about the marriage. Diana probably dreamt of a husband that would be her knight, her 'prince', who would protect her from everything and would be just hers. Charles seemed to be the person. I doubt Diana ever loved Charles the man, but I don't think she married him for his title either. I think Diana created an image of a person and didn't see the real person behind it. But once they were married, it all changed. Diana’s failure failed to understand Charles was a Prince of the United Kingdom, that he had a job to do and that in a way, his personal life would always be second to his duty, was key to her unhappiness. Diana wanted to always be on the first place, and as a woman I can understand her. Being young and immature, she did all the wrong things. An older and more experienced woman would probably be able to mend the things, but Diana just tried to grab Charles’s attention. Her faked suicide attempt was one of those things, but it only distanced Charles (and any man would react in the same way). I do believe Charles that he turned to Camilla only after the marriage was broken beyond repair. But that probably made Diana feel even more miserable and neglected, whether she loved Charles by the time, or not. And misery turned into vindictiveness and we got the Morton book, and later the terrible panorama interview.

The tragedy of Diana & Charles, in my opinion, is that they both married not the people they thought they were. Diana married Charles because she thought the marriage would be her shelter, and Charles would be her protector, that he would always be by her side whenever she needed him (the same she later demanded from Khan). Charles married a young girl, who seemed to have the same interests as him, who, being from the same class, knew the needs and demand of the Monarchy.
Both were wrong, because Charles had a job to do, and Diana couldn't keep up with that.
I always thought, and nothing has happened to change my opinion, that Charles did love Diana, just as Diana loved Charles. But their differences and their failure to understand each other, and Diana's failure to understand Charles's position led to all those tragic events that were to happen.

Someone said in this thread a phrase that I think pretty much describes Diana: when happy, she was able to transfer happiness to the others, but when unhappy herself, the made sure everyone around her was miserable.

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  #137  
Old 12-26-2007, 05:35 PM
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I believe a lot of the problems started because Diana couldn't understand and wouldn't accept that Charles couldn't cancel pre arranged engagements because she felt 'lonely', or she felt sick, he was after all the Prince of Wales! As his wife 'she' should be the most important thing in his life and if she needed company, he should drop everything.

With most people with this kind of problem, there would follow the questions, wanting exact details of why it had taken him 30 minutes instead of 25, what women he had met, did he make any phone calls, was he complaining about her to friends etc. It can be exhausting living with an obsessive and jealous person, in the end people end up fibbing about who they met etc, to avoid a scene!

..my gosh, that sounds completely draining for the 'receiving' party indeed! Poor Charles!

What I still don't get though is, wasn't Diana, early on in the marriage, really busy herself with engagements and whatnot? I mean, that wouldn't have left her much time for this kind of behavior, one would think. The kind of behavior I would associate with someone who doesn't have a life, which certainly wasn't the case with Diana in those early days.
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  #138  
Old 12-26-2007, 05:40 PM
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I only remember that after she ceased to appear as "The Princess of Wales" in public, she send most of her charities down the drain.
..I never got that either! Seemed she had more time on her hands post marriage, to concentrate more on those charities! Especially with her kids in boarding school. Maybe that was part of the problem, here was this woman, post divorce, with too much time on her hands? And that's why she assumed those in her orbit had to just make time for her whenever it suited her?

Come to think of it, she wasn't above summoning a man she never dated but was virtually married to, Paul Burrell, to her house in the middle of the night evidently. I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but if this is what fame does to otherwise good humans, that kind of public adoration should be outlawed!
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  #139  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:53 PM
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But people, it never come to your mind that being so famous and trying to lead a life with the medias around is not that easy ? I mean, as everyone here puts it, it seems that she had nothing to complain about. Honestly, I can't judge and say what she should or shouldn't have done. At least she helped people. In her 36 years, she has done many things, wonderful and horrible but I'm nobody to say that she only went to see these charities for her publicity. What does it change ? They got money and attention from the public. Okay, she dropped many of them in 1993. But I can tell you that if I had been her, I wouldn't have stand a half of what she's been through.
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  #140  
Old 12-26-2007, 07:09 PM
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..my gosh, that sounds completely draining for the 'receiving' party indeed! Poor Charles!

What I still don't get though is, wasn't Diana, early on in the marriage, really busy herself with engagements and whatnot? I mean, that wouldn't have left her much time for this kind of behavior, one would think. The kind of behavior I would associate with someone who doesn't have a life, which certainly wasn't the case with Diana in those early days.
I don't remember Diana having that many solo engagements when they first married and of course once she was pregnant, the problem got worse. Many women feel 'less than attractive' at that time and while she was stuck at home 'suffering', Charles was getting out and meeting people. Some women do treat pregnancy as an illness, others just get on with living.
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