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  #581  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:13 PM
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I think the whole book is wrong. He is supposed to be bound by the Official Secrets act, even if not legally, as her PPO, he would have signed it and IMO its just as much making money out of a relationship which is supposed to be kept discreet, as someone like Hewitt writing a book. In addition Wwill and Harry DID protest about the book - first time they ever did...
IF William really did such a stupid thing, IMO it is not something that should have been talked about in a book, and Diana should certainly not have encouraged him by laughing about it. I'd prefer to believe, frankly that there may be some germ iof truth in it, but it may well belong to Mr Wharfe's imagination. Not to metntin as I recall that he basically said that Diana and Hoare were lovers, that he found Hoare out smoking in a passage, and joked to Di about her "playing strip poker" with Hoare.. it seems to me that he is jazzing up the book with all the sort of stotries that are bound to make it sell and are definitely not things that Di would have wanted talked about (if they happened).
I tried to read a bit of it years ago and I found the tone pretty daunting, I felt that he was quite hostile to her, he had left her service because he felt that she was keeping secrets from him and they didn't part on good terms..
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  #582  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:16 PM
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Did he lose his police career due to writing the book and giving ongoing interviews? I have the idea that he's not a working officer now, but I don't know for sure.
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  #583  
Old 05-16-2017, 06:58 PM
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I remember reading the story about Hoare and the cigar in the hallway in other books too.

When you really think about it, writing his point of view on his relationship as a PPO to Diana, Princess of Wales really isn't a novel idea. We just need to remember who was the very first person to get the "tell all" story out in book form.

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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
he had left her service because he felt that she was keeping secrets from him and they didn't part on good terms..
This is very true and is very well explained throughout the book also. In order to be able to protect her fully, she had to trust him and he needed to be able to trust her. He was responsible for her protection 24/7 (he had other PPOs working under him). He was responsible to Scotland Yard for her and at the end felt that he no longer could reasonably do his job. Its not that they were on "bad terms" such as her freezing her friends out but rather she was beginning to disregard what he felt was paramount for her protection and he left her service. The "secrets" she kept from him showed that she no longer fully trusted him and could risk her own life as well as costing him his career if he couldn't do his job properly.

He was not an employee of Diana, Princess of Wales and I doubt he had to sign the Official Secrets thing but that's something I'm not 100% sure of. He did have to report every move he made with Diana though to his commanding officer at Scotland Yard (or was it the Metropolitan Police?) though and file expense reports and why some incidents came about so his report to his bosses was quite extensive and actually got him in a bit of hot water from time to time.

I can't find where Wharfe is today but I know he was reassigned to another department after he left Diana. Bodyguard (PPO) to visiting royalty and VIPS I think. Most likely as its 20 years later, he's retired.

The worse move made I think actually belongs to Diana herself. After the divorce was final, she refused protection totally except when her boys were with her. Wharfe does point out at the end of the book the shoddiness and amateurish way that Al Fayed's protection squad did what was supposed to be their job in Paris. Had Wharfe still been at Diana's side at the time, she'd still be alive today. Sad to think of.
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  #584  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:49 PM
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I can't find where Wharfe is today but I know he was reassigned to another department after he left Diana. Bodyguard (PPO) to visiting royalty and VIPS I think. Most likely as its 20 years later, he's retired. __________________
I would think that he has likely reached retirement age for those officers in the field and is now happily retired.
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  #585  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:00 PM
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Ahhhh retirement can be a blissful thing sometimes. I love it.

Actually, from reading Wharfe's first book, I found him to be a down to earth, no nonsense kind of a guy and he was able to be firm with Diana. With being answerable to his own commanding officer and not Diana, he could tell her "No. Ain't gonna happen" on things and was understanding enough of Diana's character enough to know just the way to go about it. He was her protection officer first and friend and confidante second and when that relationship was threatened by Diana putting up a wall, he knew the time had come for him to step away.

I do think that first and foremost, he had Diana's best interests at heart. That was his job.
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  #586  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:13 PM
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The most vivid of Wharfe's stories is about the time Diana escaped from her room in a skiing lodge by jumping off the balcony. She came back hours later. She just didn't think about the dangers out there. Where there can be a camera, there can be a gun. Thinking about genuine danger seemed to elude her, but she thought a lot about danger that was highly speculative.
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  #587  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:48 PM
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That incident was actually the awakening point for Wharfe to realize that perhaps it was time for him to move out of service to Diana as she was taking unnecessary risks that prevented him from doing his job of keeping her safe.

One of the really odd parts about the relationship between these two people was that it actually was the kind of relationship that Diana would have loved to have had with Charles. Someone always there looking after her. Someone whose focus was totally on her and someone that had a pretty good idea of who Diana was, what she needed and how to communicate with her.

Its not surprising that once Diana had separated from Charles that she wanted to spread her wings and fly a little bit and I think Wharfe understood that and did what he could to support Diana but when it got to the point that he couldn't be assured that Diana worked with him to keep her safe, he knew that the time of his being her PPO was over.

It must have been a real jolt to be called back to London to head up the protection detail needed for Diana's funeral. If anyone could see how Diana's death was senseless and could have been avoided, it was Ken Wharfe.
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  #588  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post


I do think that first and foremost, he had Diana's best interests at heart. That was his job.
He only had Dis' interests at heart as her bodyguard. Because it was his job. and it was IMO equally his job and his duty, to remain discreet about her secrets that he had found out through that job working for her. If he had genuinely cared for her, he would have never sold her life for money, as he did.

yes of course he would have to sign the Offiical secrets act. he was working for the RF, he was in effect a civil servant, as a policeman. Even if you could argue that technically that ended when Diana died, IMO gentlemanly behaviour and loyalty shoudlnt' be bounded by a legal act
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  #589  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:20 PM
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But isn't the Official Secrets Act primarily about espionage? If he had written anything that fell under that he would have been prosecuted. I don't think the Offical Secrets and the nondisclosure staff of the royal family sign when hired are related.
RPOs answer to the Metropolitan Police not the royal family. I'm sure there are rules, but some of them may have been voided by Diana's death
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  #590  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:00 PM
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The way I saw it was that Wharfe was writing about his experiences with Diana. He was there. He recounted amusing anecdotes of what happened that they both thought was hilarious. I would go as far to say that he humanized Diana and we were able to see a side of Diana no one else really presented.

Wharfe took great pains to denounce aspects of Diana that others who have written books didn't. Take her need to be admired as a public figure. Many authors stress the point that Diana was in it for personal fame and glory. Wharfe was adamant that although her public acclaim was very important to Diana, the works that she did, the people's lives she touched and her caring and compassion were genuine to the core.

If you're referring to Wharfe telling "secrets" about her affairs, there's nothing he's related that hasn't been known before. It also made me realize that if he was on detail with Diana when she slipped away to James Hewitt's mother's place with the boys, he reported all those times and places she went to his commanding officer. He protected her as much as he could from the press when needed.

He didn't spill the beans about anything that was considered a great state secret. He wrote about what he experienced and showed, at times, the warm and humorous side of Diana. It was his personal journal of his life and timse with Diana and I believe he had every right in the world to put it to paper and tell his story.

As far as his position. He was only answerable to his superiors at the Metropolitan Police. He, in no way, was employed by the RF. This is what was pointed out as a difference between the security he provided for Diana and the security provided for Diana by Mr. Al-Fayed. Al-Fayed's security force answered to him and they didn't feel they could tell Dodi "no" when he made the rash and impetuous decisions he made the night Diana died.
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  #591  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
But isn't the Official Secrets Act primarily about espionage? If he had written anything that fell under that he would have been prosecuted. I don't think the Offical Secrets and the nondisclosure staff of the royal family sign when hired are related.
RPOs answer to the Metropolitan Police not the royal family. I'm sure there are rules, but some of them may have been voided by Diana's death
OK. How about Diana on Panorama. Diana said some things that, if told by employees, would have meant they would be prosecuted under the Secrets Act.

And here's Her Nibs, blabbing about her family on television in some cheap tit-for-tat media appearance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
The most vivid of Wharfe's stories is about the time Diana escaped from her room in a skiing lodge by jumping off the balcony. She came back hours later. She just didn't think about the dangers out there. Where there can be a camera, there can be a gun. Thinking about genuine danger seemed to elude her, but she thought a lot about danger that was highly speculative.
If that was the most vivid of the stories, you bought a pooch of a book.

It's not like the person telling the stories is some kind of Romeo, either.
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  #592  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:30 PM
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OK. How about Diana on Panorama. Diana said some things that, if told by employees, would have meant they would be prosecuted under the Secrets Act.

And here's Her Nibs, blabbing about her family on television in some cheap tit-for-tat media appearance.
That's why I said that the very first "tell all and air the dirty laundry" book was actually Andrew Morton's in collaboration with Diana herself. Why get the tar and feathers out for someone that wrote of his life and times while protecting Diana? If I'm not mistaken, Wharfe left the position of Diana's PPO in 1993. It was his choice to request reassignment. The Panorama interview didn't happen until 1995.

The funniest anecdote that I liked in the book was when they're all in the car heading somewhere and Diana gets Wharfe to do his mimicry of a person from NY calling Diana's hairdresser as a prank call. It showed that Diana's life, even with all the turmoil and unhappiness, had some humorous times to it.

Wharfe was upfront about his time with Diana but he was also very warm and kind when talking about her also.
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  #593  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
But isn't the Official Secrets Act primarily about espionage? If he had written anything that fell under that he would have been prosecuted. I don't think the Offical Secrets and the nondisclosure staff of the royal family sign when hired are related.
RPOs answer to the Metropolitan Police not the royal family. I'm sure there are rules, but some of them may have been voided by Diana's death
I have signed the OS act and I'm not a spy... anyway as I've said it is not legalties IMO htat matter but proper behaviour... decent loyalty to the family whom he was working for, and to a vulnerable woman.
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  #594  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If you're referring to Wharfe telling "secrets" about her affairs, there's nothing he's related that hasn't been known before. It also made me realize that if he was on detail with Diana when she slipped away to James Hewitt's mother's place with the boys, he reported all those times and places she went to his commanding officer. He protected her as much as he could from the press when needed.

He didn't spill the beans about anything that was considered a great state secret. He wrote about what he experienced and showed, at times, the warm and humorous side of Diana. It was his personal journal of his life and timse with Diana and I believe he had every right in the world to put it to paper and tell his story.

As far as his position. He was only answerable to his superiors at the Metropolitan Police. He, in no way, was employed by the RF. This is what was pointed out as a difference between the security he provided for Diana and the security provided for Diana by Mr. Al-Fayed. Al-Fayed's security force answered to him and they didn't feel they could tell Dodi "no" when he made the rash and impetuous decisions he made the night Diana died.
If you can't see it as wrong I can't really argue. he WAS working for the RF, as they are the heads of state and the Police work for them.. and he was by his job in a close relationship with Diana and other royals and he's bound by convention and honour not to disclose what he finds out in that relationship. just as her house servants who sold tittle tattle about rows and problems in the early ears of the marriage were In the wrong and were often paid by the newspapers in "non money" because it would have been dangerous to pay htem in money.
It doesn't matter if he told tales that were "known before". Yes Diana did admit ot her affair with Hewitt, but she denied an affair with Hoare. Wharfe told about her affair with hoare.
He told that vulgar silly anecdote about william apparenlty pulling off her towel, in front of him. that's not something a gentleman does.. or a loyal employee. He did all ths for money. If you can't see this as wrong I can't understand that, esp when it was the only time that WIll and Harry did protest about someone writing about their mother and making money out of her...
Of course Diana was wrong to do Panorama, but she didn't do it for te motives he did (In short money and I think a certain revenge because he and she had parted badly). She talked about her OWN private life and her marriage.. because she was unhappy and vulnerable and was desperate to try and make her situation better. Some of her friends who knew her pre marriage did write about her, but they stuck to anondyne stuff about her and did not criticise her or tell anyting intimate.
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  #595  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:53 AM
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I understand where you're coming from, Denville, and there is a bit of truth to what you have pointed out. As I said, I'm only going on opinion from reading his first book "Diana: Closely Guarded Secret". You mentioned that Diana's sons had reason to speak out against Wharfe's work and that leads me to believe that I need to read his other book and get the whole picture.

So off to my trusty used book website and see if I can find a cooy for cheap. I'll let you know what I think of it once I've read it.
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  #596  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:46 AM
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They should have spokene out, because it was completely wrong and they as her nearest relations should have said something about other books that came out around the same time. But IMO they have never been as active to protect her memory as they should have been. however, perhaps they reckon that if they speak out every time a hostile or simply wrong thing is written about her they would be doing it all the time.
the very title "closely guarded secret" is giving away her code name..
He is IMO utterly utterly wrong and wrong minded.. and I think form the tone of that book that he was hostile to her, because she and he had parted on bad terms. She didn't trust him (problaby rightly). She thought that he was leaking stuff to the press and of course his boss was working as I recall fro Charles so she feared reports about her life going to the man who worked for Charles..
I don't know if wharfe was leaking to the press but I wouldn't put it past him...
I agree that she was reckless about her security in many ways and that problaby was making life difficult for people who were hired to protect her. however that doesn't give them the right ot throw over the rules of their profession, and their loyalty to their clients.. and sell stuff about them.
I gather that now he is rubbishing Wililam and saying that he's not such a great guy as Harry..
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  #597  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:56 AM
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I didn't sense one bit of hostility at all anywhere. I thought he treater her kindly actually.

He answered to his superiors at Scotland Yard. Whoever you are thinking of that "worked for Charles" if he was Charles' PPO, they both answered to Scotland Yard and not to the royal family. Wharfe mentioned being on good terms with the other PPOs assigned to their "primaries" and worked in tandem but Wharfe didn't answer to any of them as "boss". He even relates how on good terms Diana was with her former PPO that got sick with cancer.

I didn't get the impression that when Wharfe's job as her head PPO ended, it ended on bad terms. He requested a reassignment from Scotland Yard. Wharfe didn't feel he could do his job fully protecting Diana and at the time of his resignation, they weren't as friendly as before but I don't believe there were any hard feelings. He simply stepped away from the job. He had to. Diana was taking chances she shouldn't have been taking and not only could he not do his job but his career was also on the line should something have happened under his watch.
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  #598  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:26 AM
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yes I KNOW that wharfe was reporting to his boss In the police who worked for Charles as a policeman.. he was duty bound to do so.
but you can understand why Diana was nervous about her doings being told to the "enemy camp" as she saw it.. someone who worked closely with Charles. She was also afraid that Wharfe was sellig stories to the press about her.
IMO, they DID part on bad terms. She had grown not to trust him. He was clearly annoyed at her being so careless about her security and keeping things from him.


I felt that apart from the book being completely wrong anyway, there was a hostile tone in it, just as there was with Pat Jephson, because he too had left Dianas service after rows and problems. Now I gather Jephson has changed his tune and is more sympathetic in his writings about Diana, but then he would have to be, if he wants to carry on selling stuff about her. The public would get bored if it was all hostile stories.
If Wharfe just felt he coud not do his job because Di no longer trusted him and was taking risks and that he could not protect her because she didn't tell him where she was going etc, then all he had to do was to request a transfer and go to another job in the police. Simple as that. He had no need to justify himself by a book. So he clearly did it for money.. and as an ex policeman, he would not have needed to do this for money. He would have a pension and many police go on to do jobs in security after they retire.. or other fields..
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:32 AM
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I agree with much of what you said, but not that Diana didn't photograph well.
I recall reading someplace that she had never been known to take a bad picture.

I'm not sure about the charisma either. If she'd had such a magnetic personality, wouldn't it have been evident before the marriage?

One of Charles' friends once sneered that Diana was nothing special. He said: If he hadn't married her, she'd have trouble getting a date.

I thought it wasmean-spirited, but it does suggest that, at the time, Diana didn't dazzle. That came after the press built her up, imo.
that's quite absurd. the press can't put something into someone that isn't there. Diana did have a sparkle, a special quality. She photographed well, and IMO in real life she didn't always look so good because real life isn't as glamourous as pics and movies. I met her once and she looked VERY thin, and her hair looked over treated. But she did have charm. I think it is absurd if anyone DID say that she woud have had trouble getting a date.
She clearly had many admirers as a girl, and Charles had his pick of beauties, he wasn't going to go out with a girl who wasn't pretty.. except for Camilla his girlfriends were usually attractive girls.. he is the POW after all.
Clearly with Camilla there was soemthing deeper and special that made him fall in love wit her and her looks wern't important. but generally with other women he did often "fal in love with a girl's looks" to some extent. And in picking a possible wife, I think he was not likely to marry a girl who wasn't very pretty and photogenic..
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:36 AM
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yes I KNOW that wharfe was reporting to his boss In the police who worked for Charles as a policeman.. he was duty bound to do so.
but you can understand why Diana was nervous about her doings being told to the "enemy camp" as she saw it.. someone who worked closely with Charles. She was also afraid that Wharfe was sellig stories to the press about her.
IMO, they DID part on bad terms. She had grown not to trust him. He was clearly annoyed at her being so careless about her security and keeping things from him.


I felt that apart from the book being completely wrong anyway, there was a hostile tone in it, just as there was with Pat Jephson, because he too had left Dianas service after rows and problems. Now I gather Jephson has changed his tune and is more sympathetic in his writings about Diana, but then he would have to be, if he wants to carry on selling stuff about her. The public would get bored if it was all hostile stories.
If Wharfe just felt he coud not do his job because Di no longer trusted him and was taking risks and that he could not protect her because she didn't tell him where she was going etc, then all he had to do was to request a transfer and go to another job in the police. Simple as that. He had no need to justify himself by a book. So he clearly did it for money.. and as an ex policeman, he would not have needed to do this for money. He would have a pension and many police go on to do jobs in security after they retire.. or other fields..
The point I was trying to make is that neither Diana's PPO or Charles' PPO reported at all to Charles. They did not work for him at all. They were employed and answered to Scotland Yard. They were assigned to the people they were from Scotland Yard. They filed every move they made with their "primaries" to Scotland Yard. They received their paycheck from Scotland Yard and had to file expense reports to Scotland Yard. If something was amiss, and their charges wanted to do something that wasn't advisable to do, the PPOs could say "no" to them. So Diana and Charles' separate PPO teams did not report to each other or to Charles. It didn't work that way.

We'll just really have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the book was a good insight into his times with Diana and that he really didn't cross over the line in relating events or spill any deep, dastardly secrets that would have harmed Diana's memory. He portrays her as a very human and very warm person. But that's my take on it.
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