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  #501  
Old 05-15-2016, 10:34 AM
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Seemed like Diana thought that someone was spying on her or trying to find out what she was doing all the time.
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  #502  
Old 05-18-2016, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Seemed like Diana thought that someone was spying on her or trying to find out what she was doing all the time.
Well she wasnt entirely being paranoid.. I think that during the Wales war years, yes people WERE watching her and she was right to be a bit suspicious. She feared that the RF were likely to attak her, and put her down, and perhaps to take the boys away. But I think that she took her fears too far. I think that Charles' camp WERE putting out stories about her in the news, and the RF were watching her warily.. and of course the papers were always on the look out for anyting that they could find out, that would sell. But had she remained withtin the RF and not tried to fight them, or get out of the marriage, this would not have happened..
I dont beleive that her PPOs were relating everything she did to Charles, or to the press.but she feared that they were and got rid of them, and that made her "alone" and vulnerable, and then she trusted herself to the proteciton hired by other rich friends like Dodi Fayed.. which wasn't very good or safe for her.. Had she retained her PPOs Im sure the ngith in Paris would have been a safe trip for her..
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  #503  
Old 06-19-2016, 02:36 PM
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Q Claude, if a woman was upper class, she had to be married before engaging in affairs (well that began to gradually "slide" as the 20th C progressed) but generally, a woman like an actress or a lady of the night, coudl be single, if she was willing, but she was usually of the "kept" variety. A society woman would need to have the protection of a husband..
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  #504  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
So I wish at times that she had just ignored the Camilla affair, got on iwht her life and stayed married and maybe over time, she and C would have managed to have a friendship as their children got older. Cutting herself adrift from the RF left her unprotected...
I was laughing myself as I realized the mistake I made with George V. Its the kind of thing where the statement is the total opposite of what the person really is. Like calling Queen Victoria a spontaneous flibbertygibbet and bohemian.

I am in agreement about what might have been better if Diana had acted differently. Just maybe, if she had tried to make friends with Charles' set instead of feeling threatened by them or they both had compromised a bit more or who knows what else, things could have been much different.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and its too bad we don't get the full benefits of it when we're looking ahead on things in life.
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  #505  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:32 PM
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I don't think it should be forgotten though, that Diana was friendly with several of Charles's set, the van Cutsems for instance. She treated Emillie van Cutsem like a mother, only to find after years of friendship, that the van Custems (and others) had been providing 'safe houses' like Anmer for Charles and Camilla to continue their affair.

The Vans weren't the only ones doing exactly that in Charles's set, so what price friendship? Even if she had tried hard with all of them in the spirit of compromise, even if Diana had been as close to them as a bug in a rug- would they have all rushed to Diana's side in sympathy if there had later been a marriage breakdown? I'll leave that for others to decide. I know what my view is.

And I ask again what I have asked before. Diana had remarkable longterm friendships from her single years, including her flat mates. Is there any known incident where Charles went out of his way to show interest in them, his wife's friends. Is there any time when he tried to get to know any one of them? Because I'll be very surprised if there is. What's sauce for the gander is also so for the goose within marriage, I would have thought.
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  #506  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And I ask again what I have asked before. Diana had remarkable longterm friendships from her single years, including her flat mates. Is there any known incident where Charles went out of his way to show interest in them, his wife's friends. Is there any time when he tried to get to know any one of them? Because I'll be very surprised if there is. What's sauce for the gander is also so for the goose within marriage, I would have thought.
I can't comment on who aided and abetted Charles once the marriage egg had broken as that's something I know very little about. Once that happened, I would imagine that's when the "camps" started to form and sides taken. Gearing up for war so to speak. When a couple breaks up for any reason, its pretty hard to keep a friendship and remain neutral with both parties.

I also cannot recall specifically any times that Charles showed any interest in Diana's friends and the sauce for the goose and the gander taste the same no matter what its poured on.

Perhaps they were two stubborn people that wanted things their own way. Diana maybe had her own specific ideas on how the marriage should work and Charles, being used to things his way since birth just about, was flabbergasted that he perhaps should change or compromise.

One thing I do realize is that it most certainly would have been much, much better if they had been able to separate and divorce a long time before they did. There wouldn't have been any need for Camillagate or Squidgygate or any gates at all.
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  #507  
Old 06-20-2016, 01:38 AM
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I think that Diana did try to get on with the Highgrove set, but she was a lot younger than them, she wasn't realy into their lifestyle and she had a bit of jealousy about their having been long term friends of Charles'. And I think that after a while, she din't try that hard and excused herself form his parties and began to see more of her own old friends. I don't know if C tried to get to know them, but if they were mostly Di's age and still single girls, was he really likely to form a friendship with any of them? I think that once Di and C began to pull apart, row a lot, of course his friends tended to rush to his side and he spent more time with them and they did provide a place for him and Cam.. but Di's friends did the same with her and Hewitt... or Gilbey...
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  #508  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:26 AM
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Diana did have some male friends and some of her girlfriends had boyfriends. He didn't even try to fit in, it seems to me, as he considered them lightweights, quite an elitist view really. I remember Charles as a young man and he always seemed older than his age. It wouldn't have hurt him to have lightened up a little.

Perhaps her friends did provide bolt holes for herself and James, though, apart from his mother I can't think of any. But then James Hewitt's mother didn't act as a substitute mother for Charles, did she, as Emillie van Cutsem had for Diana, only to turn on him after several years?
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  #509  
Old 06-20-2016, 03:48 PM
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Mara Berni provided a safe house also, for Di to leave letters for boyfrends and I think ot meet them discreetly.
I assume that Diana had to be more careful than Charles did. He had a set of friends, who had all been around for a long time, whereas Di was younger and still forming her circle of friends..and the press were more watching her than they did with C.. so I suppose she could not go to various houses with say Hewitt, she had to stick to Highgrove or his mother's place.
And I dont think that Emile VC exactly turned on her. She may have tried to be a friend to Diana, but still mainly she was Charles' friend and probably as the marriage got more unhappy her sympathies were with him..and Diana probalby didn't see that much of her as it seems that after a few years, she had reverted to her own social circle and left Charles to entertain his friends alone.
I dont entirely blame C for not wanting to spend time wth the guys that Di hung out with.. as Ken Wharfe felt they were all pretty similar, probalby pleasant enough but not very bright, and I don't know if Di would have liked it, if he'd palled up with her girlfriends..
But even so, If a marriage goes south, the friends of the couple tend to side with their initial friend..
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  #510  
Old 06-20-2016, 10:15 PM
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Another way to look at this also was that during the split up of the marriage, Charles' trysts were primarily set up so he could be with Camilla. (There have been allegations that there were other women he was "intimate" with during this time but as far as I know, nothing factual has come to light.) As Camilla and Andrew PB were among that circle of friends, it was seen as innocuous that both Camilla and Charles would be at one of their friend's house for an overnight stay regardless of who else was in residence at the time and no eyebrows raised.

With Diana, it was a whole different ball of wax. The men that she wanted to have assignations with weren't within a circle of friends that would make it logical for them to be at the same place at the same time (no matter who else was in residence too) and not raise a few eyebrows.

By these standards alone, Diana had to be more discreet with the plotting and conniving and whatever that probably could have put Jame Bond "007" to shame.
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  #511  
Old 06-21-2016, 03:11 AM
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That's what I meant. Diana had to be more discreet. She was also trying to negotiate a positon of "semi-royal outside the RF", divorced or separated from Charles, and as such, I think she was nervous that if her affairs got known to the public, they might disapprove and she would be in a weaker position negotiating with the RF.

and yes she had friends who weren't part of the Royal circle and it was more likely that if she was seen with them, it would get the papers thinking.. and chasing her to find out who the mystery man was.
AND because of who he was I would say that Charles' friends were inclined to bea bit more "suck up" and willing to provide a place for him to meet Camilla, (as we see from their conversation on the phone HE had to do a lot of juggling and thinking too, so as to find a way to meet her).. but he did have a circle of friends with country houses who had been around in his life for years, and if he and Cam stayed with them, it wasn't too remarkable.. However, I think they still had to be careful about staff being around like nannies who might see what was happening and talk... and Andrew PB was a bit less OK about the affair, at this stage..and so Charles clearly wasn't welcome at Cam's house if Andrew was at home.
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  #512  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I find it paradoxical that a woman so concerned about her safety didn't have security people when she was outside of Kensington Palace. Perhaps her freedom was more important to her than her fears.
I think she wasn't that concerned about her safety really. She DID have paranoid moments when she thought that people were out to get her/harm her or maybe even kill her.. but overall I think she hated being fussed and confined by the needs of security. She didn't like having bodyguards in her early married years, she wasn't used to it. And she was also afraid later on that her police officers were telling their bosses what she was up to and that that would get back to Charles. Or event hat they might sell their stores about her life or boyfriends to the papers. She did sometimes hire a private firm when she was divorced but she had told the Police that she was fine with walking around London on her own and nothing had happened to her, so she wanted to remain free of the need to have PPOs.
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  #513  
Old 07-31-2016, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Whether or not Wharfe should have written the book or given interviews, he did. He was a trained observer who had first hand knowledge of what Diana did, and he's someone I am far more likely to pay attention to than, for example, Diana's psychic or her hairdresser or butler anyone else of that ilk who might claim she had "confided" in them.
I don't see why his being a police officer would mean that he was more likely t know what Diana did or that she would confide in him. Yes he knew about her life to an extent, but IMO she's quite likely to have chatted to her butler quite a lot, and her psychics, as much and more than to a policeman.. esp when she feared that her PPOs were reporting to their bosses and that Charles would get stories of what she was up to. Wharfe I gather has been rubbishing William, whom he hasn't seen since Will was a kid.. just because IMO, he will get more notice for saying "Will is not a nice guy" than for saying that he was a nice enough kid...
Equally, he talked about her affair with Oliver Hoare, that's not what he is pad to do as her Police officer.. He is there to protect her from danger, not to rabbit on to the public about how he found her admirer smoking outside Di's rooms..(hint hint)
And one of the reasons that Wharfe left Diana's service was that she kept secrets from him.. She DIDNT want him to know what she was about because increasingly she didn't trust him...
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  #514  
Old 07-31-2016, 07:21 PM
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Wharfe is likely to have known what Diana was doing and who she was seeing because he was with her when she did it, or had to make plans for her so she could do it.
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  #515  
Old 07-31-2016, 07:58 PM
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It was an imposssible situation! I think the problem was Diana was in love with the prince ..... what ever in love means!! ..... she married so young to a much older man given her age - who had probably a decade before found his own life partner - had two little boys within three years and then reality kicks in.
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  #516  
Old 08-01-2016, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Wharfe is likely to have known what Diana was doing and who she was seeing because he was with her when she did it, or had to make plans for her so she could do it.
He was to an extent, yes but he didn't know every thing about her. And she may or may not have confided in him, I would say she was more likely to confide in Paul Burrell who was always around, or her psychics whom she would talk to obviously about private matters in her life.
Wharfe worked for Di for a number of years, but I think that gradually she kept things form him and didn't always tell him when she was going places or who she was seeing.
And since he has used his books to say things like "Will pulled a towel off Diana" in his presence, I'm very very dubious about a lot of what he said. It seems clear to me that he was emphasising the more "sensational" bits of her life, such as her love affairs and probably exaggeratng or downrhgt lying.
A lot of the time his interaction with her was no more exciting than her saying "I'm going to Marks and Spencers to buy some skirts and shirts" "Or "I'm goig to have my hair done" rather than her teling him what she thought of Charles or her family, or telling him that some lover was coming to visit.
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  #517  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:41 AM
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Ken Wharfe Princess Diana's bodyguard shares the most intimate portrait ever | Daily Mail Online
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  #518  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:47 AM
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God he makes me sick. Is there no end to his yammering on...
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  #519  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:58 AM
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I sometimes get the feeling that there were *no* discreet people in Diana's life....
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  #520  
Old 08-06-2016, 05:11 AM
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that is so true Lee. I really do feel for her in that respect. I think that charles' friends were mostly loyal and did not chatter to the press perhaps because they are mostly "old school upper class".. but Diana had a mixum gatherum of friends. Some were celebs and they tend to make a noise.. others were old school upper class but not so "old and old fashioned" as C's friends. Well they were a lot younger and from a a more easy going mind set. Her girlfirends I think didn't see anything wrong with ab it of talk to the press but not giving anything scandalous away. C's friends were more inclined to be "say nothing at all".
And because Di effectively left the RF and then died, I think that a few of her staff felt that they had leave to speak bout her, and give stuff away.. To be fair its not all of them and even some who have talked a bit like her Chef, haven't said anything controversial. But Wharfe and Jephson and Burrell, have been far too indiscreet and mostly done it for money and attention.
and I don't care what anyone says but for me, there is something really ugly, in a man "selling his story" about an affair with a woman. It is bad when a woman does it about a man but even worse the other way round. I don't care if people say tat viewpoint is sexist, I believe it. A woman, even today, is more vulnerable in relation to sexual scandal than a man is, and the RF is an old fashioned world. So for Di's lover Hewitt to talk about their affair PURELY for money IMO, is really really ugly of him...
He knew that Diana was in a vulnerable positon as regards both the public and the RF.. SHe was very much afraid that if an affair was revealed the public might turn on her and the RF would use it as an excuse to treat her less than fairly. And yet he sold his book on the affair and went on talking about it on and on, and saying that she had had at lest one other affair with Barry Manakee...
I DO feel that Di should have been more careful, In terms of whom she socialised with. But with her staff, its hard to prevent servants and police officers form knowing a certain amount and you just have to rely on their discretion to keep it quiet. with regard to friends I think the trouble was that she did start to mix too much with the celeb set and they tend ot go public on things. So when she flirted with Carling, his wife was more likely to make a public fuss than the wife of someone like Ol Hoare who has remained discreet.
But yes she has been so unlucky IMO in having so many people who were willing to sell her out, from Peter Settleen, to her bodyguards ot her lover
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