Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards

[Denville]

That's what I meant. Diana had to be more discreet. She was also trying to negotiate a positon of "semi-royal outside the RF", divorced or separated from Charles, and as such, I think she was nervous that if her affairs got known to the public, they might disapprove and she would be in a weaker position negotiating with the RF.

and yes she had friends who weren't part of the Royal circle and it was more likely that if she was seen with them, it would get the papers thinking.. and chasing her to find out who the mystery man was.
AND because of who he was I would say that Charles' friends were inclined to bea bit more "suck up" and willing to provide a place for him to meet Camilla, (as we see from their conversation on the phone HE had to do a lot of juggling and thinking too, so as to find a way to meet her).. but he did have a circle of friends with country houses who had been around in his life for years, and if he and Cam stayed with them, it wasn't too remarkable.. However, I think they still had to be careful about staff being around like nannies who might see what was happening and talk... and Andrew PB was a bit less OK about the affair, at this stage..and so Charles clearly wasn't welcome at Cam's house if Andrew was at home.

 

[Denville]

I find it paradoxical that a woman so concerned about her safety didn't have security people when she was outside of Kensington Palace. Perhaps her freedom was more important to her than her fears.

I think she wasn't that concerned about her safety really. She DID have paranoid moments when she thought that people were out to get her/harm her or maybe even kill her.. but overall I think she hated being fussed and confined by the needs of security. She didn't like having bodyguards in her early married years, she wasn't used to it. And she was also afraid later on that her police officers were telling their bosses what she was up to and that that would get back to Charles. Or event hat they might sell their stores about her life or boyfriends to the papers. She did sometimes hire a private firm when she was divorced but she had told the Police that she was fine with walking around London on her own and nothing had happened to her, so she wanted to remain free of the need to have PPOs.

 

[Denville]

Whether or not Wharfe should have written the book or given interviews, he did. He was a trained observer who had first hand knowledge of what Diana did, and he's someone I am far more likely to pay attention to than, for example, Diana's psychic or her hairdresser or butler anyone else of that ilk who might claim she had "confided" in them.

I don't see why his being a police officer would mean that he was more likely t know what Diana did or that she would confide in him. Yes he knew about her life to an extent, but IMO she's quite likely to have chatted to her butler quite a lot, and her psychics, as much and more than to a policeman.. esp when she feared that her PPOs were reporting to their bosses and that Charles would get stories of what she was up to. Wharfe I gather has been rubbishing William, whom he hasn't seen since Will was a kid.. just because IMO, he will get more notice for saying "Will is not a nice guy" than for saying that he was a nice enough kid...
Equally, he talked about her affair with Oliver Hoare, that's not what he is pad to do as her Police officer.. He is there to protect her from danger, not to rabbit on to the public about how he found her admirer smoking outside Di's rooms..(hint hint)
And one of the reasons that Wharfe left Diana's service was that she kept secrets from him.. She DIDNT want him to know what she was about because increasingly she didn't trust him...

 

[Roslyn]

Wharfe is likely to have known what Diana was doing and who she was seeing because he was with her when she did it, or had to make plans for her so she could do it.

 

[Dee Anna]

It was an imposssible situation! I think the problem was Diana was in love with the prince ..... what ever in love means!! ..... she married so young to a much older man given her age - who had probably a decade before found his own life partner - had two little boys within three years and then reality kicks in.

 

[Denville]

Wharfe is likely to have known what Diana was doing and who she was seeing because he was with her when she did it, or had to make plans for her so she could do it.

He was to an extent, yes but he didn't know every thing about her. And she may or may not have confided in him, I would say she was more likely to confide in Paul Burrell who was always around, or her psychics whom she would talk to obviously about private matters in her life.
Wharfe worked for Di for a number of years, but I think that gradually she kept things form him and didn't always tell him when she was going places or who she was seeing.
And since he has used his books to say things like "Will pulled a towel off Diana" in his presence, I'm very very dubious about a lot of what he said. It seems clear to me that he was emphasising the more "sensational" bits of her life, such as her love affairs and probably exaggeratng or downrhgt lying.
A lot of the time his interaction with her was no more exciting than her saying "I'm going to Marks and Spencers to buy some skirts and shirts" "Or "I'm goig to have my hair done" rather than her teling him what she thought of Charles or her family, or telling him that some lover was coming to visit.

 

[Denville]

God he makes me sick. Is there no end to his yammering on...

 

[Lee-Z]

I sometimes get the feeling that there were *no* discreet people in Diana's life....

 

[Denville]

that is so true Lee. I really do feel for her in that respect. I think that charles' friends were mostly loyal and did not chatter to the press perhaps because they are mostly "old school upper class".. but Diana had a mixum gatherum of friends. Some were celebs and they tend to make a noise.. others were old school upper class but not so "old and old fashioned" as C's friends. Well they were a lot younger and from a a more easy going mind set. Her girlfirends I think didn't see anything wrong with ab it of talk to the press but not giving anything scandalous away. C's friends were more inclined to be "say nothing at all".
And because Di effectively left the RF and then died, I think that a few of her staff felt that they had leave to speak bout her, and give stuff away.. To be fair its not all of them and even some who have talked a bit like her Chef, haven't said anything controversial. But Wharfe and Jephson and Burrell, have been far too indiscreet and mostly done it for money and attention.
and I don't care what anyone says but for me, there is something really ugly, in a man "selling his story" about an affair with a woman. It is bad when a woman does it about a man but even worse the other way round. I don't care if people say tat viewpoint is sexist, I believe it. A woman, even today, is more vulnerable in relation to sexual scandal than a man is, and the RF is an old fashioned world. So for Di's lover Hewitt to talk about their affair PURELY for money IMO, is really really ugly of him...
He knew that Diana was in a vulnerable positon as regards both the public and the RF.. SHe was very much afraid that if an affair was revealed the public might turn on her and the RF would use it as an excuse to treat her less than fairly. And yet he sold his book on the affair and went on talking about it on and on, and saying that she had had at lest one other affair with Barry Manakee...
I DO feel that Di should have been more careful, In terms of whom she socialised with. But with her staff, its hard to prevent servants and police officers form knowing a certain amount and you just have to rely on their discretion to keep it quiet. with regard to friends I think the trouble was that she did start to mix too much with the celeb set and they tend ot go public on things. So when she flirted with Carling, his wife was more likely to make a public fuss than the wife of someone like Ol Hoare who has remained discreet.
But yes she has been so unlucky IMO in having so many people who were willing to sell her out, from Peter Settleen, to her bodyguards ot her lover

 

[Denville]

Things were okay between Charles and Diana. They weren't in the same head space in the early parts of their separation. Charles would drop by the house, and Diana used to rush down the stairs and greet him with a kiss on the cheek. Friends and staff have spilled the beans on that. Things calmed down for them.

I dont beleive so. I think that they were polite and freindly when they met and probably for the sake of the kids, and perhaps given time they might have "moved on" and been able to meet as friends, but i think that the bitter anger was just moving intot the past.. slowly. Sarah Bradford said on a tv programme that Di pretended she didn't mind Chas being with Camilla - but she did..

 

[royal rob]

Your right of course she wouldn't be happy this was real life not a movie. I don't think anyone would be happy their husband was with the woman he had always wanted

 

[Dee Anna]

Ken Wharfe Princess Diana's bodyguard shares the most intimate portrait ever | Daily Mail Online

Is this a newspaper article or a prelude to a book? It's harmless enough stuff compared to other articles; but probably will annoy William and Harry, although I suspect the latter is less privacy driven.

Ken Wharfe was probably the most well known of Diana's team, being what he was; maybe a pity he couldn't have stayed just that ..... a protection officer.

On the flip side, I wonder if Diana would mind these little episodes being shared?

 

[Dman]

It's always been about people wanting to make some money off of Diana. She was a famous beloved princess. Even though its been nearly 20 years since her passing, she still sells.

I dont beleive so. I think that they were polite and freindly when they met and probably for the sake of the kids, and perhaps given time they might have "moved on" and been able to meet as friends, but i think that the bitter anger was just moving intot the past.. slowly. Sarah Bradford said on a tv programme that Di pretended she didn't mind Chas being with Camilla - but she did..

Of course Diana still minded that Charles was with Camilla. Some of her friends even thought she would've been upset if he didn't end up with her.

Charles and Diana's personal relationship was healing though. For the sake of themselves and for the kids.

 

[Denville]

I don't really see how their relationship (which was always a very shaky affair) could be healing if she still minded he was with Camilla. They had never had much in common, other than the children and I don't think the children were much of a bond after the first few years. I think they were rather a bone of contention, in that Diana wanted to bring them up rather differently to the RF's and to an extent Charles's ideas. And I think she began to keep the kids to herself, and Charles began to stay away more..
Given that they had little to hold them together, and Diana was not over her anger and bitterness that Charles had ended up with Camilla, how could their already tenuous relationship heal? If they were going to be friendly, I think they both had to move on...He had, I think, certainly, he didn't mind her having new boyfriends - but she was hurt that he was now living with Camilla and angry about it. If she was past that, their relationship might heal, but I don't think she was anywhere near being past it.
If she had had more luck in her romantic life, and found a nice man, and got on with her life, (or just got on with her life anyway) I think then she could more or less let go of her bitterness and let him get on wth HIS life.. but she hadn't. She clearly pretended for the sake of her pride that she didn't care, but did care.

Is this a newspaper article or a prelude to a book? It's harmless enough stuff compared to other articles; but probably will annoy William and Harry, although I suspect the latter is less privacy driven.


On the flip side, I wonder if Diana would mind these little episodes being shared?

I think that unfortunately Diana hadn't learned that with a lot of "dealing with the press" it is a case of giving them an inch and they take a mile. She thought she could control them, and give them what she wanted, but kept them from finding out TOO much or sharing too much.
She began to find out, as the whole War of the Waleses went on, that she could not control the pressmen as easily as she thougth.. and it was the same with her staff. If a royal ignores/winks at a bit of the staff talking to the press SOME of thtem wotnt stop at harmless stuff...they will sell and sell....

 

[Denville]

Do people think she was unwise in choice of friends since quite a few talk ot the press? usualy in a harmless way? But also with people like bodyguards and staff, who talk in a less harmless way? I don't know. Perhaps she confided too much in her staff?

 

[Mermaid1962]

The friends that she lived with in London were good friends. I believe that Rosa Monckton and Lucia Flecha de Lima were good friends. Her casual men friends seemed to be okay, the ones who'd keep her company and escort her. Yet I think that Diana was too apt to be too open with people she didn't know that well and people who worked for her. She could be highly intuitive and yet not have a sense of which people weren't good friendship material.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Do people think she was unwise in choice of friends since quite a few talk ot the press? usualy in a harmless way? But also with people like bodyguards and staff, who talk in a less harmless way? I don't know. Perhaps she confided too much in her staff?

It isn't her friends so much as her staff that talk to the press - the bodyguard, the chef, the astrologer etc.

What few friends she had have kept fairly quiet but she didn't have many as she was so cruel to many of them over the years and dumped them or would play hot and cold with them and be friendly for a while and then give them the cold shoulder.

Her staff don't understand that they should keep quiet about her but her fans will always buy what they are saying as a sign of being her 'fan' but in reality they are really doing to her in death what they did in life - hound her.

 

[Denville]

Her staff didnt know they should keep quiet???
I dotn believe that she "dumped" friends but she was suspicious of them, harldly suprisingly when so many people in her life were untrustworthy. She got upset if they criticised her and I don't entirely blame her. Friends should support you, even if they think you're being foolish.

 

[Mirabel]

I dont beleive so. I think that they were polite and freindly when they met and probably for the sake of the kids, and perhaps given time they might have "moved on" and been able to meet as friends, but i think that the bitter anger was just moving intot the past.. slowly. Sarah Bradford said on a tv programme that Di pretended she didn't mind Chas being with Camilla - but she did..

I agree; there was too much bitterness between them.
I think they tried to be civil for the sake of their children, but even then it was a struggle.

 

[Lee-Z]

If support is just saying what you are doing is great all the time, then i disagree, if friends aren't honest with you if you're foolish then who is...

Ideally imo: friends should form a united front in public and be able to say anything to eachother in private

From all the stories on these forums about Diana i get the feeling that she wanted her friends to agree with her in private and several have in the past (still?) talked about her in public, so that's exactly the other way around

 

[Denville]

I think if you are really doing something wrong, yes friends should tell you, but I dont believe that Di was doing anything so terribly wrong. Sometimes she was foolish but mostly it was harming herself more than other people. And I think that within reason friends should support you... I think that Di felt she could not trust people, she was aware that various people in her life sold stories to the press, she wasn't always sure who it was, and she was on edge all the time. So she was ready to flare up at what she perceived as disloyalty...

I wouldn't agree that her friends have talked about her in public. I think mostly they have been loyal in that sense and if they have talked, it is to say something harmless or to defend her. (Of course with some I suppose there is the ego boost of talking about her). However I think that by and large, even if they fell out at times, they DID recognise how difficult her life was and how hard it was for her to trust people and understood her problems and loved her.
MOSTLY I think it was staff or hangers on rather than friends who "sold stories" but you can understand for Diana, knowing that SOMEone was leaking about her, not being sure who it was, hoping ti wasn't a "real friend", it was pretty sad and hard to cope with.

 

[Nico]

The part 2 :

Ken Wharfe tells how Diana was wounded by the lie that Harry was James Hewitt's son  | Daily Mail Online

 

[Dman]

Diana's Brazilian 'best friend' Lucia dies aged 76 | Daily Mail Online

May Lucia Rest In Peace and my condolences to her family.

 

[HRHHermione]

I think everyone knows by this time that both Charles and Diana weren't happy about the affairs. It only happened because their marriage was falling apart and not much happens in certain moments.



Yes, they may been kids, I'm pretty sure they knew their father was seeing Camilla too.



There's no evidence that Diana had an affair with Manakee. She may have been fond of him, but no one ever said they had an affair.


.

There have been many allegations over the years that she had an affair with Manakee.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4074545.stm

 

[Denville]

It's not about disloyalty. Diana's behavior was shaming the BRF pretty badly and by extension casting a bad light onto the Spencer family.

Start reading the literature on Diana. Read well-sourced material, like the one I mentioned (there are many, many others). The two quotes are there in nearly every biography I've read.

I HAVE read many books about Diana, and I don't recall this quote in any biography. I may be misremembering but if it were In "nearly every bio that you've read" it seems odd that I haven't come across it.

There have been many allegations over the years that she had an affair with Manakee.

BBC NEWS | UK | Diana 'wanted to live with guard'

There have been allegations about many men In Di's life. its not surprising, since she's dead and its easy to throw stotires around. However while I think she did flrit heavily with Barry Manakee, I don't think that there is any solid evidence of an affair.

 

[HRHHermione]

Charles and Diana

There have been allegations about many men In Di's life. its not surprising, since she's dead and its easy to throw stotires around. However while I think she did flrit heavily with Barry Manakee, I don't think that there is any solid evidence of an affair.

The article I linked is based on audio tapes of Diana discussing the affair with her vocal coach. Here is more context on those tapes. Based on the available evidence, I believe it's more likely than not that she had an affair with Manakee.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2004/dec/12/monarchy.barbaraellen

Edited to add: the link I provided does express some uncharitable perspective on those tapes. For those who prefer a more neutral approach that simply acknowledges their existence, here is an alternative link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1467750/Diana-video-tapes-returned-to-voice-coach.html

 

[Osipi]

Maybe its just me but over the years, from all I've read, I kind of got the feeling that Barry Mannakee was actually the first RPO that Diana felt an affinity with and the relationship, while quite congenial, wasn't any more than Diana having someone in her life to talk to during the day out and about with her RPO. Having someone you're compatible with doesn't necessarily mean jumping into bed with them. She also got along well and was quite close with Ken Wharfe. I know Wharfe wrote a book but that's one I've not read.

Its just all too easy to construe an affair out of a good friendship. Its also been reported that Diana had an affair with JFK, Jr. which, as far as I know, is just unsubstantiated rumor.

 

[HRHHermione]

Maybe its just me but over the years, from all I've read, I kind of got the feeling that Barry Mannakee was actually the first RPO that Diana felt an affinity with and the relationship, while quite congenial, wasn't any more than Diana having someone in her life to talk to during the day out and about with her RPO. Having someone you're compatible with doesn't necessarily mean jumping into bed with them. She also got along well and was quite close with Ken Wharfe. I know Wharfe wrote a book but that's one I've not read.



Its just all too easy to construe an affair out of a good friendship. Its also been reported that Diana had an affair with JFK, Jr. which, as far as I know, is just unsubstantiated rumor.

Yes, but Diana herself was never filmed talking about wanting to give up her marriage to run away and be with JFK Jr.

She was, however, filmed discussing her desire to run away from her marriage to be with Manakee.

 

[Dman]

Yes, but Diana herself was never filmed talking about wanting to give up her marriage to run away and be with JFK Jr.

She was, however, filmed discussing her desire to run away from her marriage to be with Manakee.

No, Diana did not have an affair with Manakee. Nor she did she have an affair with JFK, Jr. It's all rumors that stuck over the years.

 

[HRHHermione]

No, Diana did not have an affair with Manakee. Nor she did she have an affair with JFK, Jr. It's all rumors that stuck over the years.

Would you mind explaining why you believe she didn't have that affair despite the video evidence I've referenced in the thread a few times? I'm not grabbing that assertion out of nowhere, it's based on something very specific. If there's evidence that suggests otherwise, I'm happy to look at that perspective too! Ken Wharfe said he didn't believe they had an affair but I believe he said that before the tapes were released?

It's only really relevant to the thread as a point about when the marriage really began to unravel.