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  #321  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:27 PM
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Really, Camilla was in his life long before Diana. The pictures in his diary, falling out, the cufflinks, come on. Camilla never worried about Diana, thought she was a nothing. Didn't realize she would steal the show. And his putting William and Harry first is quite amusing. I do not question that he loved them. Her largest failing was that she could not accept being number 2, to his mistress. And Camilla was not just the mistress, but the love of his life. She was, always, non-negotiable. And, too bad for them. They really love each other. But had Diana played her cards correctly, she would still be alive, I assume, she would still be the Princess of Wales, and Charles would still be skulking out to see his mistress on Sundays and other odd days. Many other Princesses have done that, turned a blind eye, too bad. I, believe, she received that advice from her mother-in-law. She was just too insecure to live that way, if one thinks that is acceptable.
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  #322  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:33 PM
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But she herself did not seem to mind being the "other woman" since she carried on affairs with married men. One wonders if she ever thought of the wives of the men she was sleeping with.
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  #323  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think Diana would've found love in her life at some point. She had just came out of a divorce and I think it may have taken her some time but I think she would've been re-married by now.

Who knows, she may have found love up in Heaven and is very happy.
I like to think she would have, too. Diana was at a disadvantage on so many levels when it came to relationships. She didn't have the example of a strong marriage with her own parents to use as a reference, and she was married so young she never got the chance to grow as an individual before becoming a wife. Those are significant handicaps, and that's before you add in the weird nature of the marriage and the never ending public and media attention.

That being said, plenty of people with less than stellar prior relationships find stable, loving partners eventually.
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  #324  
Old 08-06-2013, 01:51 AM
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Camilla was in his life 'before Diana' no question but no one involved, including Diana, have ever claimed she was there throughout the marriage - only Diana's fans claim that despite the evidence of Diana and Charles' own words - Diana dates Charles' return to Camilla to about 1986 while Charles admits it was after the marriage had 'irretrevably broken down'.
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  #325  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Camilla was in his life 'before Diana' no question but no one involved, including Diana, have ever claimed she was there throughout the marriage - only Diana's fans claim that despite the evidence of Diana and Charles' own words - Diana dates Charles' return to Camilla to about 1986 while Charles admits it was after the marriage had 'irretrevably broken down'.
Since Camilla met Charles in the 70s, their relationship has had many different facets. Its hard to just pin the term "mistress" on Camilla as that gives the impression that they were forever entangled in a love tryst during all that time. I sincerely do not believe that is the way it was. Most authors that have written on the subject have used the term "confidante" more freely than "mistress". There is no doubt in my mind that their friendship was a close, intimate one. Tom Parker-Bowles in an interview recalls that as kids, they were always told that "Sir" is coming over and goes on to say how "Sir" to him feels more like an affectionate nickname rather than how the general public would call Charles "Sir" out of respect for who he was. Charles was close with all the Parker-Bowles family in the earlier years and not just Camilla.

I do believe though that Diana felt threatened by the closeness of Camilla and Charles' friendship. She felt threatened by anyone that had a close relationship with Charles. She felt that she was the third wheel in a relationship and due to this, she not only had Charles drop quite a few people from his personal circle to letting go some of the staff that worked closely with Charles. As been stated, this is a definite example of the "me first" attitude. Although Diana and Charles, to me, were very happy and content with their marriage early on, without the common interests and willingness to compromise with each other and ability to work with each other the chances of that close intimate "best friends in the world" bond never had a chance to develop between them and soon what was good in their marriage wasn't enough to cement a lasting bond between the two of them. As the marriage disintegrated instead of growing stronger, its easy for both sides to simply find fault with each other rather than have that closeness that makes them want to compromise and work with each other to find a solution together. As stated, when the marriage " irretrievably" broke down, they both sought what had been missing.

Charles resumed his friendship with Camilla which had survived the years of absence and separation and it grew into a full bloom romance and Diana sought what she felt was missing and sadly never found it.

Relationships between two people are very complex and its not a given that what one feels at the beginning will be the same in 10 years. It takes constant work and nurturing on a day to day basis and a lot of gives and takes and ups and downs and weird trips sideways and upside down to grow. Charles and Diana just never found the formula to get them both through this together.

The blessing is that although Charles and Diana didn't make their relationship work, the lessons learnt from the fiasco that was their marriage did benefit William and Kate I think. Looking at those two, we see that the close intimate friendship they have that is a solid foundation to build a strong marriage on. There's no guarantee that it'll all be a bed of roses from here on out and they'll have their "I love you but I don't like you too much right now" days but they've got a strong tool that will aid them to work anything out.

And so it goes.......
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  #326  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:17 AM
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Osipi, I agree with your excellent post but I fear we are getting off topic. The issue is how Diana's "me first" attitude (which was evident in her public trashing of the father of her children, despite seeing how much it hurt them) impacted Diana's search for happiness.

The problem is that Diana was so insecure that she believed that she needed constant validation from other people. But getting her picture on the front page of the papers was only a temporary balm. Meeting members of the public who were thrilled to be in the same room for a few minutes was also a temporary balm.

She really needed to address her own demons before she entered into a new relationship. I've read she was on anti-depression drugs towards the end of her life, which probably helped control her bulimia, but the illness remained. Accepting that she wasn't perfect--and that it is okay not to be perfect--would have been a major step forward.

It would have been a hard road, but with professional counseling and the support of family and friends, she could have done it. I believe that Charles and the rest of the royal family would have been supportive because they wanted to see her happy.

It would have been a lifelong battle for her, but she needed to let go of the expectation that life needed to be perfect. Once she accepted that she was a wonderful person and didn't need constant attention and validation from the outside world, I think she would have been able to find a loving, decent man to live out her life. She would have been able to accomplish even more once she stopped using charity work to get headlines and prop up her self esteem.
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  #327  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Binny2 View Post
Good point. She had perennial poor judgment. Every man was a little worse than the previous one.

Yes!! I've always thought the same thing.

With Dodi Fayed, I felt she was truly scraping the bottom of the barrel. But even before that, her choices were bizarre.

Many men seemed to see her as a trophy; I can't think of a single one with whom she could have had a deep, loving relationship (and that goes double for Khan, because there is something very creepy about him. I suspect he's a narcissist of the first rank).
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  #328  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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Personally I think the way it all played out with Dodi was pure machinations of the part of his father to further his own interest. Dodi at the time was engaged to someone else in the States and this romance between Dodi and Diana I think was way overplayed although Dodi did have a penchant for being a player and probably did whatever Daddy said to do as Daddy had a big purse. But that's just my take on it. When you think about it, Daddy swore they were going to get engaged but when you think about it, it reality, Diana knew Dodi for even a shorter period than she originally knew Charles. Daddy al Fayed had a lifelong dream of fitting into the cream of the crop in British aristocracy and never could get his foot in the door. Talk about using Diana as a trophy, this would take the cake in my book.

As far as Haznat Khan goes, I do believe the man was genuine and probably really did have feelings for Diana but also realized just how different she was from his world. I think a major difference between Khan and some of the others that Diana was involved with is that he wasn't in awe of her. Several of the lovers that Diana did have started in the position of serving The Princess of Wales in some form. Hewitt as riding instructor for example. Khan didn't fall into that mold and most likely saw Diana as Diana herself rather than the title or the positions she held. In fact, if I am not mistaken, he abhorred all the glitz and glamor and attention Diana received from the public.
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  #329  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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I don't know much about Hasnat Khan, but I don't think one can say he is a narcissist. A narcissist would welcome media attention and probably would not open a clinic to treat poor cardiac patients in Pakistan. I agree that Diana choose to involve herself with Hasnat Khan even though the relationship was doomed to fail.

I don't know why she was attracted to Dodi Fayed. It does seem like scraping the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if she used Fayed to not only make Khan jealous, but to get people "used" to the idea that she was with a Muslim. I don't know how to explain it but Fayed was unsuitable in so many ways that she may have hoped people would accept Khan as a step up and not focused on his religion.

Regardless, some people blame her poor choices on her upbringing and Charles, but she was 36 years old and had been separated for more than 5 years. Life is short. At some point, she needed to stop blaming her parent's divorce and the royal family for her poor choices and take responsibility for her own decisions.
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  #330  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:45 AM
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...Khan didn't fall into that mold and most likely saw Diana as Diana herself rather than the title or the positions she held. In fact, if I am not mistaken, he abhorred all the glitz and glamor and attention Diana received from the public.
Interesting take Osipi, but I wonder how well Khan actually knew the real Diana. They couldn't have spent that much time together because he was busy, and although the media followed her constantly, they were able to keep their relationship secret. I suspect that they really didn't spend that much time alone together and she was able to project an image of herself, as she had when she dated Charles. There certainly were cracks in the façade because Tina Brown says she called him constantly, but I'm not sure she let him see the real her.
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  #331  
Old 08-06-2013, 09:52 AM
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I don't know why she was attracted to Dodi Fayed. It does seem like scraping the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if she used Fayed to not only make Khan jealous, but to get people "used" to the idea that she was with a Muslim. I don't know how to explain it but Fayed was unsuitable in so many ways that she may have hoped people would accept Khan as a step up and not focused on his religion.

I think it was more a case of thumbing her nose at Charles and the RF; she knew very well what they thought of the Fayeds.
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  #332  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:02 AM
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I think it was more a case of thumbing her nose at Charles and the RF; she knew very well what they thought of the Fayeds.
That is very possible one of the main reasons, but why do you think she got involved with Khan? There may have been some objection to his religion, although not from Charles, he is proven to be very tolerant.
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  #333  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:14 AM
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That is very possible one of the main reasons, but why do you think she got involved with Khan? There may have been some objection to his religion, although not from Charles, he is proven to be very tolerant.
I think perhaps Khan's humanitarian and compassionate approach to things appealed to Diana as she herself really had a strong compassionate nature. To someone that craves the nurturing as Diana seemed to, it would make Khan seem like the knight on a white horse. They both, at the time, were each reaching out to help those in need (Khan medically and Diana with her causes) and that made for a common ground in a relationship.

I seriously don't think that anything in the Diana/Khan relationship had any ulterior motive such as giving the BRF the Bronx cheer. It was perhaps the only relationship Diana had that did remain mostly private and that had to be a big change for her.
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  #334  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:22 AM
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I agree that Khan's position as a doctor would have been very attractive to Diana. However, Diana had many relationships that she wanted to remain private, starting with Barry Mannakee. The only one she publicly admitted was her affair with James Hewitt, but that was only after he went public.

The big change for her was the openness of her relationship with Fayed. I think they did pose for pictures a few times. That's why I tend to believe that her intent was to make Khan jealous and to introduce the idea that she would marry a Muslim.
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  #335  
Old 08-06-2013, 12:15 PM
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When I think back at Dodi, i remember thinking, that she probably had lost her marbles.. he was so vulgar, so ugg, so obviously unsuitable, so playboy, so useless.... she couldn't have chosen worst.
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  #336  
Old 08-06-2013, 01:54 PM
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Diana appears to remain an irresistible focus for posthumous and amateur psychoanalysis.
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  #337  
Old 08-06-2013, 02:03 PM
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I don't think Diana fell for Dodi. I think he was pushed onto her by his father.
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  #338  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:04 PM
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I don't think Diana fell for Dodi. I think he was pushed onto her by his father.
Yeah, I think it was just a convenient fling that she was swept up in at the time. More a case of Mohamed Al-Fayed's orchestrations than anything else.
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  #339  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
That is very possible one of the main reasons, but why do you think she got involved with Khan? There may have been some objection to his religion, although not from Charles, he is proven to be very tolerant.

I think Diana accepted Khan's image of himself; I suspect he had this mindset where he saw himself as a noble, almost saintly healer. I don't think he was a compassionate humanitarian, I think that's how he wished to be viewed, which is why I called him a narcissist.

(At least that's the impression I get with him. And I think Diana bought into that self-image, at least initially).
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  #340  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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I don't think Diana fell for Dodi. I think he was pushed onto her by his father.
I think she enjoyed the attention it brought her. She certainly made no attempt to be discreet or to hide the relationship from anyone, quite the contrary in fact.

Mohammed might have pushed Dodi onto her but that did not mean Diana had to catch him in her arms or spend time with him if she did not want to.
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